Hayes vs. Stamkos in 08'

[Le Golie]

Of all the Canadian prospects I have seen play, Stamkos is the leader in talent and potential right now. There are several really good ones - much moreso than this year - but Stamkos is on another level.

As for defencemen, it's clearly Doughty coming out of Canada.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Just lack information about any russian prospect, otherwise scouts wail about second coming Fedorov.

i wouldnt mind that at all. fedorov is my all-time favorite player

 

[cdnhky1]

I'll just admit you win so you stop ****ing complaining so much.

Christ almighty.

Maybe if you guys started evaluating prospects based on merit instead of what country they were born in people would take you more seriously. What makes you think that Hayes is anywhere near as good as Stamkos other than the fact that he's American and so are you? How can you compare two players to each other when you have never seen one of them play? It seems that you and the Americandreamer are so caught up in your desperation to have the US overtake Canada in hockey that you lack all objectivity and impartiality when it comes to evaluating players.

 

[Bryzga lol*]

Just lack information about any russian prospect, otherwise scouts wail about second coming Fedorov.

Fedor or Sergei?

 

[Avy*]

Fedor or Sergei?

Of course Sergei. No one and never to come close to Fedor.

 

[MaskedSonja]

I haven't seen Hayes play, got to watch a lot of Stamkos in Sarnia- he's got a great feel for where he and his team mates are on the ice. He's unselfish, giving the puck up if he feels there's a better opportunity by another player. He needs to gain some weight to hold his own better in the boards, but that will come with time. I agree with an earlier poster, it all depends what the team that drafts wants- if theywant a D man, then Doughty will go first. And next year's draft is a good deep draft(which makes me scratch my head when I see posters on the NHL boards who want their team to tank in 09 so they can get Travares-don't they realize that guys like Hayes, Doughty and Stamkos are going to be available next year?). I see Stamkos not falling below the top five-unless he has a horrid year.

He's a special kid though(and I'm proud to say that I had him pegged as a Steve Yzerman type player before TSN ever put that title on him )and I hope he does well-he'll be one of those players that I'll follow regardless of what team he plays on, and hope he remembers to bring to the Stanley Cup to Sarnia if/when he hits that milestone

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Maybe if you guys started evaluating prospects based on merit instead of what country they were born in people would take you more seriously. What makes you think that Hayes is anywhere near as good as Stamkos other than the fact that he's American and so are you? How can you compare two players to each other when you have never seen one of them play? It seems that you and the Americandreamer are so caught up in your desperation to have the US overtake Canada in hockey that you lack all objectivity and impartiality when it comes to evaluating players.

Maybe you should read what the **** I wrote before you comment and try and make me look bad.

I said that I hadn't seen enough of Stamkos yet to buy into the hype over him but I had seen a lot of Hayes who is a supremely good prospect and who left a lot of good feeling for me.

I could care less what the **** nationality either of the players are. Maybe you missed it when I've constantly bashed American prospects and American players because you're too close minded to bother reading into my posts.

I see more American prospects because I pay more attention to the leagues here and I can take small trips around to see certain players play. I can't always see the Canadian teams so I don't get as much viewing of them as I would an American kid who I can see play once in a while. I travel a lot but I'm limited in the distance I can go and so I'm limited in who I can see. Since I see more of one person I automatically have more of an opinion on them, for negative or positive.

But seriously, accuse me all you want but it just makes you look ignorant. Why don't you go give me some DISTINCT incidents in which I seemed to prefer one guy over the other just because of his nationality or said something SO insane that it seemed like that as well. You're accusing me of this but you are just spouting out of your behind rather than telling me where you think I did something.

And me and Americandreamer? He tried to rip me apart in another thread for knocking a US born prospect. Open your eyes.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Of all the Canadian prospects I have seen play, Stamkos is the leader in talent and potential right now. There are several really good ones - much moreso than this year - but Stamkos is on another level.

As for defencemen, it's clearly Doughty coming out of Canada.

Wait, he's more talented and has more potential than Tavares? Or do you mean just for 2008?

 

[AmericanDream]

Maybe if you guys started evaluating prospects based on merit instead of what country they were born in people would take you more seriously. What makes you think that Hayes is anywhere near as good as Stamkos other than the fact that he's American and so are you? How can you compare two players to each other when you have never seen one of them play? It seems that you and the Americandreamer are so caught up in your desperation to have the US overtake Canada in hockey that you lack all objectivity and impartiality when it comes to evaluating players.

well I'll use your post for toilet paper now..

I never said Hayes was better then Stamkos, and I am nowhere near alone in the belief that Hayes can and will challenge for the #1 spot in 08'. I love Stamkos, the kid is a stud, and I dont care where he is from. If the Hawks suck another season, I say go draft Stamkos in a heartbeat..as of right now... Dont lump me in with Jon Rx, hes on another level then me.

Ofcourse I love U.S. players, I take pride in my country and of its players, but I am not throwing crap out there for the sake of it. Hayes is already a top 5 pick on everyones list, so how in the hell cant I compare him to Stamkos?? Is Stamkos the next Gretzky? Should noone dare compare a player to him? If Hayes was barely a first rounder then I would agree, but get a clue man, this kid is a top flight player.

We all have our opinions, and it doesnt matter where either of these two hail from, they both will be NHL stars. And in regards to my desperation for the U.S. to overtake Canada in hockey; well the league is run through and through in the states, run by an American, and played infront of majority of Americans. I dont have a desperation, it already is American. The players will soon follow suit in that regard with how powerful these past few and next few drafts are. Maybe it is you who needs to hold on with desperation that this is still your sport??

I love both these kids, talk to me again in 6 months and ask me how I can compare Hayes to Stamkos if your still around by then.

 

[AmericanDream]

and just so a border war doesnt happen, I am not saying that hockey is American. I am simply just throwing some info out there that points out that this isnt the 1950's anymore.

The U.S. is coming on strong, but Canada will always be..well Canada when it comes to producing talent. I love both kids, and that Doughty kid looks like a stud as well as Tuebert. Add Wahl and McRae and I think you have another North American heavy draft on our hands. And God bless Jon Rx, peace and love dude.

 

[Doomsday Device]

As for defencemen, it's clearly Doughty coming out of Canada.

I think Pietrangelo is just as good, if not a better prospect.

 

[pouskin74*]

best forvard in 2008 draft is a nikita filatov! therefore i refuse to give any other comment on this topic

 

[AmericanDream]

best forvard in 2008 draft is a nikita filatov! therefore i refuse to give any other comment on this topic

he definitely is a good player, I had him around 13, but he is one of the few Euros who is looking good this early. who would you compare him too?

 

[Sticky*]

Teubert will not challenge Stamkos for No. 1. In fact, he's more likely to fall out of the top 10 than he is to challenge for No. 1 overall.

With Drew Doughty, Alex Pietrangelo, Michael Del Zotto, Yann Sauve, Luke Schenn, Johan Motin, Vyacheslav Voinov, Maxim Chudinov, Joni Liljeblad, and Vladimir Roth, next year's first round will be loaded with dmen.

The same guy (Matthew Wuest) for The Hockey News who wrote the little blurb that feature one scout saying that Teubert is "Pronger-esue" now has Tebuert at No. 8 overall for 2008 -- the fourth dman, behind Doughty, Pietrangelo and Del Zotto.

I agree, the OHL definitely has the "Big 3" D next year in Doughty, Del Zotto, and Pietrangelo.

 

[VOB]

Hayes will not challenge Stamkos for the top forward position next year....Stamkos is so far ahead of him its not even funny. I mean you are talking about a player that was essentially relegated to the fourth line during the U-18 tourney. Hayes has not progressed as most thought he would.

The top American born forward as of now is Collin Wilson and there is no doubt he will go in the top five next draft...barring a complete breakdown of course.

Stamkos is a very potent player who pays attention to details. His skating is superb, but unlike say a perimeter player like Esposito (who many like myself were saying this time last year that he would drop in the rankings), he can handle the play along the boards and is very effective in high traffic areas.....this kid is the real deal and having watched many of the better forwards this year, he won't have much competition from them but the 08 defense prospects are another matter!

 

[penkil2]

Hayes was drafted by Moncton in the 7th Round of the '06 Midget entry draft. That 7th round doesn't mean anything ... he would have been drafted much higher if he had indicated he would report to the Q.

Pineault was a victim of his own laziness ... when he wanted to work hard he was a dominant player. But Pineault is on record as saying he should have come to Moncton right off the bat instead of going the NCAA route ... perhaps that comment comes from a bad experience that not everybody else would have. Pineault had a good second half in the AHL and was called up to Columbus as an injury fill in ... but never got there due to a snow storm. I'd say that if he was getting a shot in the NHL that he did pretty well coming from Moncton.

Pineault turned 17 at the end of May and was at BC 3 mo. later on a stacked team. He was the youngest player in Div I hockey. BC asked him to skip a year of High School to be at BC a year early, nice for BC, but detrimental for a young player. BC sat their freshmen on a rotation that year. It was a very difficult year for the freshman. If your eye is on the NHL, better to get as much ice time in the CHL.

 

[AmericanDream]

Hayes will not challenge Stamkos for the top forward position next year....Stamkos is so far ahead of him its not even funny. I mean you are talking about a player that was essentially relegated to the fourth line during the U-18 tourney. Hayes has not progressed as most thought he would.

The top American born forward as of now is Collin Wilson and there is no doubt he will go in the top five next draft...barring a complete breakdown of course.

Stamkos is a very potent player who pays attention to details. His skating is superb, but unlike say a perimeter player like Esposito (who many like myself were saying this time last year that he would drop in the rankings), he can handle the play along the boards and is very effective in high traffic areas.....this kid is the real deal and having watched many of the better forwards this year, he won't have much competition from them but the 08 defense prospects are another matter!

I am sure thats how its going to go down a year from now. Why would a 6'3 200 lb plus power forward with great skating ability challenge anyone for the #1 spot? Like I said earlier, I love Stamkos, I think he is a great player, but there is no way on this Earth that you can already start saying that no forward can challenge him come 1 year from now. Just like JVR rose the charts like a lightning bolt, so will Hayes. You have your opinion, and thats fine, but again Hayes will be the best American forward at the draft, and will challenge Stamkos for #1..IMO. As a Cubs fan would say..wait till next year.

 

[Le Golie]

Wait, he's more talented and has more potential than Tavares? Or do you mean just for 2008?

Just talking about '08.

As good as Stamkos is (an above average 1st overall candidate in any draft year IMO), JT can be special.

 

[orangeandblack]

Hayes will not challenge Stamkos for the top forward position next year....Stamkos is so far ahead of him its not even funny. I mean you are talking about a player that was essentially relegated to the fourth line during the U-18 tourney. Hayes has not progressed as most thought he would.

The top American born forward as of now is Collin Wilson and there is no doubt he will go in the top five next draft...barring a complete breakdown of course.

Stamkos is a very potent player who pays attention to details. His skating is superb, but unlike say a perimeter player like Esposito (who many like myself were saying this time last year that he would drop in the rankings), he can handle the play along the boards and is very effective in high traffic areas.....this kid is the real deal and having watched many of the better forwards this year, he won't have much competition from them but the 08 defense prospects are another matter!

i like wilson alot too. i like him better then hayes right now, but you never know what can happen. i really think by next june though, mitch wahl will be the top american forward selected. barring injury, he will get top line minutes, and be on the first pp unit. i see him averaging over a point a game. hes got pretty good size for a 16 year old, and can play in traffic, goes into the corners, and will even drop the gloves on occasion. he also probably has the most natural offensive ability for an american player available for the draft.

 

[Doomsday Device]

i like wilson alot too. i like him better then hayes right now, but you never know what can happen. i really think by next june though, mitch wahl will be the top american forward selected. barring injury, he will get top line minutes, and be on the first pp unit. i see him averaging over a point a game. hes got pretty good size for a 16 year old, and can play in traffic, goes into the corners, and will even drop the gloves on occasion. he also probably has the most natural offensive ability for an american player available for the draft.

Wahl was measured at 5'11" by CSB. Height isn't an issue for him but I wouldn't characterize it as being a strength though.

 

[slade]

he definitely is a good player, I had him around 13, but he is one of the few Euros who is looking good this early. who would you compare him too?

kid is a dangle machine...needs to bulk up- but like alot of russians- has great individual flair.

 

[AmericanDream]

i like wilson alot too. i like him better then hayes right now, but you never know what can happen. i really think by next june though, mitch wahl will be the top american forward selected. barring injury, he will get top line minutes, and be on the first pp unit. i see him averaging over a point a game. hes got pretty good size for a 16 year old, and can play in traffic, goes into the corners, and will even drop the gloves on occasion. he also probably has the most natural offensive ability for an american player available for the draft.

I agree with you that Wahl and Wilson both will be dynamite. Finally we are putting some very good top end drafts together and this one will be no different. Hayes, Wahl, Wilson, McRae, and Jenks seem to be the big 5 for next year. All very promising young players with great offensive talents. I am really high on Hayes because of the complete package he has, and for any detractors of his, simply wait till next years WJC to really see what this kid is capable of. Stamkos is #1 right now, but he isnt a Crosby type elite player, so it is absolutely ludacris to say that noone can challenge him as the top forward for next years draft. IMO.

 

[Form and Substance]

Maybe you should read what the **** I wrote before you comment and try and make me look bad.

I said that I hadn't seen enough of Stamkos yet to buy into the hype over him but I had seen a lot of Hayes who is a supremely good prospect and who left a lot of good feeling for me.

I could care less what the **** nationality either of the players are. Maybe you missed it when I've constantly bashed American prospects and American players because you're too close minded to bother reading into my posts.

I see more American prospects because I pay more attention to the leagues here and I can take small trips around to see certain players play. I can't always see the Canadian teams so I don't get as much viewing of them as I would an American kid who I can see play once in a while. I travel a lot but I'm limited in the distance I can go and so I'm limited in who I can see. Since I see more of one person I automatically have more of an opinion on them, for negative or positive.

But seriously, accuse me all you want but it just makes you look ignorant. Why don't you go give me some DISTINCT incidents in which I seemed to prefer one guy over the other just because of his nationality or said something SO insane that it seemed like that as well. You're accusing me of this but you are just spouting out of your behind rather than telling me where you think I did something.

And me and Americandreamer? He tried to rip me apart in another thread for knocking a US born prospect. Open your eyes.

Hey Burke cut down on the expletives will you? You definitely have a right to your opinion but let's not turn this into yet another John vs. the world thread, they're getting really annoying man!

E.G.
Do you pick x or y?
Consensus: y
John: x
Consensus: You're out of your mind!
John: **** you!
Consensus: Oh another American!
John: **** you too!

I haven't seen Hayes play but he'd have to be pretty damn amazing to surpass Stamkos now. This draft looks TOP heavy.

 

[RUSqueelin*]

I've never seen Hayes play, but if he's better then Stamkos they he must really be something. Stamkos does most things at high speed/better then everyone else, has good size, and even isn't afraid to throw his body around. He's ouzing potential.

The 08 draft will be a very exciting time with all the talent available.

 

[VOB]

I've never seen Hayes play, but if he's better then Stamkos they he must really be something. Stamkos does most things at high speed/better then everyone else, has good size, and even isn't afraid to throw his body around. He's ouzing potential.

The 08 draft will be a very exciting time with all the talent available.

Hayes is no where near the level of where Stamkos is at and it would take a heck of alot of development on his part to come close to Stamkos.

The forwards I see challenging Stamkos are Beech, Wilson, Filatov and possibly Cormier.

Without question, Stamkos is the best of the bunch right now.