Hayes vs. Stamkos in 08'

[AmericanDream]

I fully understand that a great deal can happen in the course of a year. That is why I suggested in an earlier post that if anyone was going to surpass Stamkos it was most likely to be Doughty or Pietrangelo. I've seen both Stamkos and Hayes play on numerous occasions dating back several years. That is precisely why I don't get the choice of Hayes because he's no where near the player Stamkos is, and there are several other players who are better than Hayes who have a much better opportunity to challenge Stamkos for the top spot, as I suggested earlier.

you are just laughable now. why are you even bothering anymore? you add nothing to the conversation but false assumption and ridiculous accusations. Yes my name on here is AmericanDream, (which is for 3 reasons; the American Dream many have that are willing to die to get to this great country, the fact that I love hockey and am an American, and from a wrestler from the 70's and 80's that had that same nickname..) and yes I support USA Hockey through and through, but this has nothing to do with Stamkos being Canadian and Hayes being American. If that were true, why am I not hyping up Colin Wilson like everyone else is??? He is an American kid, who some think can challenge Stamkos next year.

Mitch Wahl another American is high on a lot of peoples list, but I am not saying his name in regards to this. Add A.J. Jenks, Phil McRae, and Bogosian and all of them could be considerd top 10 material..and oh yeah, all are American. If any of that were true, I would be drooling over all these names throwing them all out at #1-6. I wish Stamkos and Doughty were Yanks, I think both are going to be great. How is that one sided?

I love Stamkos. I think the kid is going to be a great player. I think I have said that 10 times now. I dont think Hayes is better then him right now. I am merely saying that IMO I think Hayes will shoot up the charts just like JVR has and atleast be a consideration for the #1 spot next year. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and there is 0 amount of homerism involved with it. I have seen both Stamkos and Hayes play, and I dont think its that far fetched. Hayes is already a top 5 on almost everyones list, so are you saying that anyone in the top 5 couldnt progress in a year and have a chance of being considered for #1?? So JVR and Pat Kane as of last year according to you shouldnt have been considered 1 & 2 for this year right??? Nobody had these 2 kids 1 and 2, American or not, but yet here they are, and where is everyones #1 as of a year ago.? Barely a top 10 pick now, whether you predicted Espos fall or not, it doesnt matter, things happen in a year and this draft clearly showcases that.. They rose the charts and had a great year, which Hayes has every chance of doing. I just dont get it.

Hayes still has more to grow, and as a bigger player he hasnt grown into his body yet. This kid hasnt hit his full talent or potential level yet. Drafts are all about projecting, we just dont draft on a player stats for the current year. Blake Wheeler went #5 for the love of God for the same reasoning, I have no problems saying Hayes can challenge for #1 next year. If I implored your absurd thinking, I would tell you that there is no way Pietrangelo can even be considered #1.. How???? Hes not even the third best d-man in the draft. right?? But that is your opinion, and thats fine. I dont need to bash it and say that your a Canuck homer who thinks only Canadian players will be in the top 5...you already stated 3 of your top 5 as being Canadian..I'm sure the other 2 will be Canadian according to your views too.. not fair is it? Come talk to me next year when Hayes keeps rising the charts and challenges Stamkos for #1.

 

[AmericanDream]

Chronic back problems or something along those lines. Impressive stats, though, eh?

that is one of the biggest shames in hockey, next to Orr. Even though played many years, his knees gave out way too early for him IMO. Bossy was a stud, and I can only imagine the numbers he would have put up if he was healthy and stayed in the NHL. Compare him to Mario and Gretz, and I dont think he would have been far off at all.

 

[slade]

i think we can all agree that stamkos and hayes are both up there. but a FAR and AWAY consensus number 1 i think not this draft has. (yoda)

as stated above by my yankee counterpart....kane and jvr were nowhere to be found a year prior to the 07 draft.

 

[AmericanDream]

I think it's a bit presumptuous to say that this discussion is based soley on nationality. Frankly, I'm pretty confident AmericanDream is much more familiar with Stamkos than you are of Hayes, so who's really approaching this "debate" with ignorance? For some reason, you seem incapable of acknowledging that a lot can happen in one year's time, which is an eternity when it comes to evaluating prospects.

you usually come off more elequently then I do, so thanks for the post. Anything can happen in a year folks, thats all I am saying. You can never say never when it comes to prospects. Anyone who believes otherwise is seriously missing out on what the entire scouting and draft process is all about.

 

[AmericanDream]

i think we can all agree that stamkos and hayes are both up there. but a FAR and AWAY consensus number 1 i think not this draft has. (yoda)

as stated above by my yankee counterpart....kane and jvr were nowhere to be found a year prior to the 07 draft.

hahaha, I think I put a comment about a jedi in this thread earlier...and now we have a Yoda sighting!!!!! If Darth Vader gets mentioned in this thread its over baby!

 

[Ferjo]

You are right in that young players do tend to get hyped out of control. I do agree that Tavares isn't Crosby. Beyond that though I'd say he has the potential to be better than pretty much everyone else that's been drafted in the last 10 years.

It's just potential at this point, for sure, but you saying he's Dany Heatley at best makes me think you've either never seen him play or don't realize just what he is doing at his age. This guy could be like Bossy if he continues to progress the way he has so far. And for all the young guys reading these threads... Bossy >>>>>>>> Heatley

saying Tavares will match the greatest goal scorer of all time is crazier than me saying he'll only be as good as Dany Heatley. I don't care how many points he puts up, at whatever age, in my opinion I think he was will an NHL all-star and nothing more. I like how i'm mocked because I only think Tavares will be a 55 goal, 110 point player.

 

[AmericanDream]

saying Tavares will match the greatest goal scorer of all time is crazier than me saying he'll only be as good as Dany Heatley. I don't care how many points he puts up, at whatever age, in my opinion I think he was will an NHL all-star and nothing more. I like how i'm mocked because I only think Tavares will be a 55 goal, 110 point player.

who is the greatest goal scorer of all-time?? I love Mike Bossy, but you cant be calling Bossy the greatest goal scorer of all-time can you be?

 

[Ferjo]

who is the greatest goal scorer of all-time?? I love Mike Bossy, but you cant be calling Bossy the greatest goal scorer of all-time can you be?

oh, sorry. at worst second best goal scorer of all-time. how can I have made this mistake.

 

[thomasincanada]

saying Tavares will match the greatest goal scorer of all time is crazier than me saying he'll only be as good as Dany Heatley. I don't care how many points he puts up, at whatever age, in my opinion I think he was will an NHL all-star and nothing more. I like how i'm mocked because I only think Tavares will be a 55 goal, 110 point player.

What I said was Mike Bossy like skills would be his ceiling if he met his peak potential. Obviously stats would be adjusted for a more defensive game in the NHL today.

That being said saying the best Tavares could become is a Dany Heatley type player is seriously underestimating him. He scored 72 goals as a 16 year old in the OHL! This kid has the *potential* (and that is the key word) to be much better. Only time will tell, though.

 

[johnny canuckistan]

What I said was Mike Bossy like skills would be his ceiling if he met his peak potential. Obviously stats would be adjusted for a more defensive game in the NHL today.

That being said saying the best Tavares could become is a Dany Heatley type player is seriously underestimating him. He scored 72 goals as a 16 year old in the OHL! This kid has the *potential* (and that is the key word) to be much better. Only time will tell, though.

At least nobody compares Tavares to Gretzky. I was a bit concerned that people would start lavishing "next one" comparisons on JT, but so far people seem to realize that their styles of play are completely dissimilar. Gretzky was a playmaker, and Tavares is a sniper. Feel free to correct me if you disagree.