Post-Game Talk: Hawks defeat Panthers 6-2, Crawford hurt but probably not serious (post #17)

[Salvaged Ship]

In 32 career playoff games Stalberg has a whopping 1 goal. In 38 career playoff games Bickell has 13. There is no comparision and I would pay Bickell an extra mil over Stalberg no problem.

 

[w00d]

In addition to Simpson being recalled, Bickell was placed on IR, retroactive to Nov. 19th, to open a roster spot for Simpson. This is a very good sign, as it means Crawford was not hurt bad enough to be placed on IR himself which carries a minimum 7 days roster inactivation. It means we could see Crawford back for the Toronto or Los Angeles games.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

In 32 career playoff games Stalberg has a whopping 1 goal. In 38 career playoff games Bickell has 13. There is no comparision and I would pay Bickell an extra mil over Stalberg no problem.

And that couldn't change significantly in a playoff or two? Beofr last season you thought Bickell was a playoff beast? Hardly.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

And that couldn't change significantly in a playoff or two? Beofr last season you thought Bickell was a playoff beast? Hardly.

You are looking at the start of Bickell's season this year and writing him off as a bad contract. Couldn't that change significantly? And you can't use Bickell's regular season history to back up your point of view, I just tried using his playoff numbers and you told me that could change significantly. You can't have it both ways, only comparing numbers when they are convenient for you then ignoring them when they are not.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

You are looking at the start of Bickell's season this year and writing him off as a bad contract. Couldn't that change significantly? And you can't use Bickell's regular season history to back up your point of view, I just tried using his playoff numbers and you told me that could change significantly. You can't have it both ways, only comparing numbers when they are convenient for you then ignoring them when they are not.

Here's the short story.

Bickell is inconsistent and streaky. His regular seasons have been no great shakes. His playoffs prior to last season have not been Steve Payne like. He had a great playoff run last year, no doubt. Right place, right time and he earned a huge contract for himself. Great.

I expect, but don't wish for, it to be a one off anomaly in the historical pattern for Bryan Bickell. He is not a young stud phenom just adjusting to the pro game. He has a very good shot but can't really create his own space, adequate speed, doesn't use his giant body effectively. The pattern for Bickell has been the same all the way coming up, until last playoff.

I would love to be wrong and have him beast it up again.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

I completely agree with your assessment of Bickell's game to date. I will say that in our first round exits the 2 previous seasons he had 4 goals in 11 games. Actually a higher goal scoring rate than the past years playoffs, so he has proven to be a higher playoff goal scorer before last year. You see that and think he would be a better and more consistent player, it just hasn't happened to date.

There is no way the Hawks would let him walk this past offseason after what he did and remembering what Buff did in 2010 and then he left. The Hawks obviously felt Buff leaving was a big reason they went out first round 2 straight years, and when Bickell gave them that net presence during last years playoffs they were not going to lose it again. I completely understand them signing him to this contract, as other teams would have given him that and probably more.

Is he worth that? Over an 82 game season it is likely you will find much better players on that level salary. He might only be a 14-18 goal scorer tops in a season, and that would not be what the Hawks paid for. But if he produces again in the playoffs and we win he is worth what he is getting. He probably will never have a playoffs like last year again, but if he does produce at a higher rate and we win I think the Hawks can live with it.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

I completely agree with your assessment of Bickell's game to date. I will say that in our first round exits the 2 previous seasons he had 4 goals in 11 games. Actually a higher goal scoring rate than the past years playoffs, so he has proven to be a higher playoff goal scorer before last year. You see that and think he would be a better and more consistent player, it just hasn't happened to date.

There is no way the Hawks would let him walk this past offseason after what he did and remembering what Buff did in 2010 and then he left. The Hawks obviously felt Buff leaving was a big reason they went out first round 2 straight years, and when Bickell gave them that net presence during last years playoffs they were not going to lose it again. I completely understand them signing him to this contract, as other teams would have given him that and probably more.

Is he worth that? Over an 82 game season it is likely you will find much better players on that level salary. He might only be a 14-18 goal scorer tops in a season, and that would not be what the Hawks paid for. But if he produces again in the playoffs and we win he is worth what he is getting. He probably will never have a playoffs like last year again, but if he does produce at a higher rate and we win I think the Hawks can live with it.

Isn't it nice when we all can get along.

Let's hope Beast Bickell is indeed in bloom this Spring again!

 

[BronYrAur]

Sybil posts scare me.

So you are in the camp that Bickell is consistent? And yes I would take VS @3M over Bicks @4. Said it at the time.

But then, I wouldn't would be trying to pound a square VS into a round Bickell either. Wish Q could say the same.

Completely agree. Problem is, Q is not a Stalberg fan. VS seems to rub some folks (coaches) the wrong way. That said, he was productive as a Hawk.

To say his points came due to the top 4 is nonsense as he almost never played on the top lines. Not to mention Stalberg is a creator of chances. Bickell is the one who rides his linemates to scoring opportunities.

To use the playoffs to differentiate the two players shows a lack of fundamental understanding of the NHL. The playoffs are, in fact, NOT that much different than the regular season. Stalberg was never given opportunities on the top lines in the playoffs. Bickell's performance in the playoffs is due to two things. Luck and playing with guys like Toews & Kane. End of ****ing story.

 

[Hawkaholic]

"Stalberg wasn't productive because of our top 4."
"Stalberg wasn't productive in the playoffs because he wasnt with our top 4."
Which is it?
FWIW, Bickell was productive away from the top line, thats why he got the promotion, unlike Stalberg.

The playoffs are different than the regular season, that is not debatable. Some players handle it well (Bickell), some players can't (Stalberg/Brouwer).

VS rubs coaches the wrong way because he isn't a good hockey player. He is an OK 3rd liner, that's about it.

 

[MTP]

Completely agree. Problem is, Q is not a Stalberg fan. VS seems to rub some folks (coaches) the wrong way. That said, he was productive as a Hawk.

To say his points came due to the top 4 is nonsense as he almost never played on the top lines. Not to mention Stalberg is a creator of chances. Bickell is the one who rides his linemates to scoring opportunities.

To use the playoffs to differentiate the two players shows a lack of fundamental understanding of the NHL. The playoffs are, in fact, NOT that much different than the regular season. Stalberg was never given opportunities on the top lines in the playoffs. Bickell's performance in the playoffs is due to two things. Luck and playing with guys like Toews & Kane. End of ****ing story.

Bickell's performance has a lot more to do with physical size and finishing ability than it does to do with luck. Get real.

And Stalberg is not a creator of chances. Streaking down the left wing and firing a shot 3 feet over the net is not generating a scoring opportunity.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

To the VS haters, how many points would you reckon came on plays involving Hossa, Kane or Toews last year?

How many points would indicate that he either can or cannot create his own chances?

 

[Salvaged Ship]

I always liked Stalberg as a 3rd liner. Not everyone is Kane or Toews, he did well for us in his time here. He did come up small playoff time, but for where he was on this team I just don't get what people expect.

 

[Nothingman*]

Bickell's performance has a lot more to do with physical size and finishing ability than it does to do with luck. Get real.

And Stalberg is not a creator of chances. Streaking down the left wing and firing a shot 3 feet over the net is not generating a scoring opportunity.

But he was so fast!!!!!! I totally agree with you post too.

Stal is gone so you stal lovers can quit pining over him. And I am thankful never to see him in a Blackhawks uni again. After all.....we are not playing Columbus every other night anymore.

 

[BobbyJet]

I always liked Stalberg as a 3rd liner. Not everyone is Kane or Toews, he did well for us in his time here. He did come up small playoff time, but for where he was on this team I just don't get what people expect.

For many, they got their dander up when Versteeg was traded to Leafs for Stalberg.... and have been taken shots at him ever since. A few of them had no choice but to bite their tongues and admit that VS was playing good hockey last season (and say what you will but was a big reason for Bickell's resurgence in the RS).... but all they needed was for Q to pull his act and bench Stalberg in the PO's, and turn that into "he doesn't show up". Yeah, he didn't show up after the 1st round because he wasn't allowed to by our brilliant coach. That boneheaded move almost backfired but our talent turned failure into success.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

So now it isn't just Q at fault for Stalberg's poor play I see

VS defenders continue to move the goalposts

- Q's fault
- Supporting talents fault
- Systems fault

Now that he is failing in Nashville its also

- Trotz fault
- His supporting talents fault
- Systems fault

Pretty soon it will be the NHL as a whole to blame , Bettman maybe , etc , etc

 

[Marotte Marauder]

So now it isn't just Q at fault for Stalberg's poor play I see

VS defenders continue to move the goalposts

- Q's fault
- Supporting talents fault
- Systems fault

Now that he is failing in Nashville its also

- Trotz fault
- His supporting talents fault
- Systems fault

Pretty soon it will be the NHL as a whole to blame , Bettman maybe , etc , etc

What poor play? Yeah he was not good in the playoffs. Whatever the reason was, he and Q rumbled and VS lost.

He did not play poorly as a Blackhawk.

 

[BronYrAur]

So now it isn't just Q at fault for Stalberg's poor play I see

VS defenders continue to move the goalposts

- Q's fault
- Supporting talents fault
- Systems fault

Now that he is failing in Nashville its also

- Trotz fault
- His supporting talents fault
- Systems fault

Pretty soon it will be the NHL as a whole to blame , Bettman maybe , etc , etc

Stalberg was part of what made our 3rd line great last year. No doubt about it his speed and forechecking ability created that line's opportunities and he put up nearly 0.5 ppg on a 3rd line with very little PP opportunity.

The biggest difference between playoff Stalberg and playoff Bickell is ice time and linemates. Absolutely.

Also, it's still hockey. There are subtle differences between playoffs and regular season but I hate the playoffs are different argument. It's ludicrous and there is nothign to back it up.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Stalberg was part of what made our 3rd line great last year. No doubt about it his speed and forechecking ability created that line's opportunities and he put up nearly 0.5 ppg on a 3rd line with very little PP opportunity.

The biggest difference between playoff Stalberg and playoff Bickell is ice time and linemates. Absolutely.

Also, it's still hockey. There are subtle differences between playoffs and regular season but I hate the playoffs are different argument. It's ludicrous and there is nothign to back it up.

Bickell used his big body in front of the net and played much more physical in the playoffs. Stalberg was not capable of playing that way. Are you seriously saying regular season hockey is the same as playoff hockey? The pace, the intensity, the physicality, the ability to strategize and make adjustments game to game.

 

[slappipappi]

Bickell got his body in front of the net and scored the game tying goal vs. Boston.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Bickell got his body in front of the net and scored the game tying goal vs. Boston.

Could you see Stalberg doing that? He is not that kind of player. I also think of the Bickell goal that put us ahead in game 6 of the Detroit series. He muscled it in. It is not a shot at Stalberg at all, but Bickell brings a different dimension to the team when he pkays that way. You just wish Bickell would play that way every game, not just in the playoffs.

 

[Gurth]

Stalberg played at the end of his stick in the playoffs when things got nasty.

He played soft and I can't blame Q much for not caring for him (in the playoffs).

 

[Crazy_Ike]

So now it isn't just Q at fault for Stalberg's poor play I see

VS defenders continue to move the goalposts

- Q's fault
- Supporting talents fault
- Systems fault

Now that he is failing in Nashville its also

- Trotz fault
- His supporting talents fault
- Systems fault

Pretty soon it will be the NHL as a whole to blame , Bettman maybe , etc , etc

Don't forget the Stalbergites also blamed Toews and Kane for not using him properly when he was playing on their line (and failing).

It was NEVER Stalberg's fault for anything. He was a superstar, but no one around him enabled him.