Has this offseason changed your view about fighting in hockey?

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

Boogaard didn't have depression and Rypien had depression when he was in juniors. I'm sure Rypien suffered a trillion concussions when he was 16 years old in juniors which lead to his depression.

Fighting in the NHL had nothing to do with their deaths.

Boogaard more than likely got hooked on pills while recovering from all of his shoulder and back injuries he had in Minnesota (not sustained in fights). If you want to blame anyone for Boogaard's death, blame the doctors who gave out the pills like they were candy.

Do some more research:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=6598296

In the months that followed, Boogaard wore sunglasses nearly everywhere because of light-sensitivity issues. He would become ill in the back of cars, his world spinning. Devin Wilson, a former junior hockey teammate who was his roommate in New York, said Boogaard would hold his head in agony during those dizzy spells and ask the cab driver to stop. Then they'd walk dozens of blocks, sometimes uphill, to reach his apartment on Manhattan's West Side.

"It was a pain in the ass, but I knew it was serious," Wilson said. "When he got back to the apartment, he'd immediately get his comfortable Under Armour gear on, grab a blanket, go straight to the couch and just lie down. All the lights would have to be out.

"The light thing was huge. That's why he liked going to movies so much in dark, cold theaters. Put it this way: He wasn't a movie collector. He doesn't have a big case of Blu-ray movies. It was just such a therapeutic atmosphere for him."

The fight with Carkner was his 70th in the NHL. According to hockeyfights.com, Boogaard tallied 184 fights in his career tracing back from the minor leagues and junior hockey.

There were signs of problems before the head-rattling incident in Ottawa. This past summer, sports author Ross Bernstein was golfing in Minnesota when he got a call from Boogaard. "Dude, you've got to come pick me up," Boogaard said. Bernstein told him he was golfing, but Boogaard was insistent. Bernstein asked him where he was.

Boogaard didn't know.

[+] EnlargeDerek Boogaard
AP Photo/Lynne SladkyHockey insiders say the role of an enforcer is to protect his teammates -- the guys who can score -- from taking cheap shots.

"Turns out he was at a big home improvement store," Bernstein said. "This s---'s real. It's progressive. I can't imagine that you heal up and then another shot to the head helps."

 

[Brent Burns]

Can someone post Fedoruk interview plz?

 

[bigjohnson]

Are those the only 3 words you read guy? You have to look at the big picture when discussing this. Don't be dense. Or do you think Don Sanderson is the only player ever hurt in a hoceky fight? I'll go back to what I said earlier in the thread. If there is evidence fighting is having a serious effect on these guys health the way it did Boogaard and possibly Rypien and Belak than you have to do something.

You need to inform yourself; but judging on the quality of your posts, or lack the of, you're probably too smug and think you're better than the rest.

 

[chosen]

Nope. It just makes me made that the media can trash talk these guys like they are nothing. It seems like every other day TSN has an anti-fighting article calling out tough guys and saying how they have no skill or place in the NHL. They are in the NHL for a reason. They have a job just like everyone else and are trying to support a family. Its just that their job is a lot tougher than everyone elses.

The reason they are in the NHL is because at one time it was a vital part of the sport. It was players fighting when angers flared. Now it's about designated players on the ice with the sole purpose of fighting the other version of himself in the opposing uniform.

Fighters in the past could also play or they did not make the roster. It has degenerated into designated fighters for entertainment and without purpose towards winning the game.

 

[mygameworn]

Do some more research:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=6598296

No one is saying Boogaard didn't suffer from his concussions. What people are saying is Boogaard didn't die from a concussion or any fighting related incident. You don't get Oxycontin for head injuries.

Stop trying to pin his death on fighting.

 

[tacogeoff]

It is very unfortunate what has occured over the summer. I, as most hockey fans was upset about the loss of some great hockey players.

Does this change my stance on fighting. No. It has always been apart of the game and always will be. These guys make a living chucking knuckles, adgitating and making game changing hits. Lets be honest even the lowest paid enforcer/gritty player makes a hansome wage compared to the average joe. Their job is always on thin ice like most peoples but they always have the AHL, KHL and other leagues to fall back to and still make more money then the average person.

The deaths this summer were tragic and due to mental health issues or personal party pleasures. Fighting will always be a part of the game and a draw for many American and Canadian fans. Fighting has become more mainstream with the UFC and other fight orgs bringing acceptance to fighting into society. So I say let the emotions boil over, the heavyweights square off and lets see some good scraps this year.

 

[chosen]

So I say let the emotions boil over, the heavyweights square off and lets see some good scraps this year.

Emotions boiling over has nothing to do with a good deal of the current fighting in the NHL. That's the problem. It has become wrestling-like because it is choreographed to some degree.

 

[tacogeoff]

Emotions boiling over has nothing to do with a good deal of the current fighting in the NHL. That's the problem. It has become wrestling-like because it is choreographed to some degree.

Sorry dude, I do not agree.

 

[Puckstuff]

No i've never been interested in to 4th liner's filling eachother... there non factors in the game. Half the time it was stage fighting... I never understood the need for that grinder on your team like an Orr. I mean Detroit has the right idea by having a veteran on the 4th line and bringing up young guys that can actually play...

I love fights that actually mean something... like when Vinny and Iginla when at it in the 06 finals... Or when Lucic ragged on Komisarek... Those fights that are in the heat of the game should stay. I've never like goon fights...

 

[chosen]

Sorry dude, I do not agree.

So you believe that when there is a fight between designated toughs that it is emotion boiled over?

Usually, something happens in the game and each coach then throws out their goon on the next shift and they fight. It's almost never in the heat of battle.

You disagree with that?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

No, because I'm not entirely sure that fights are the main cause of the issues a lot of players are experiencing over the actual game itself. Call me crazy, but I think that the actual physicality of the game does more damage than the occasional fight.

 

[txpd]

to who? enforcers who play limited minutes certainly are more likely to get concussed in a fight as opposed to the regular ups and downs of the game.

players that have regular minutes and fighting responsibilities like a matt bradley or dan carcillo or mike rupp only have greater exposure because they both regularly fight and are involved in high speed contact.

last season the capitals had 3 players that did most of their fighting. matt hendricks, matt bradley, and john erskine. each of them suffered a fighting oriented concussion.

 

[txpd]

Sorry dude, I do not agree.

are you sure? home team gives up two first period goals and then there's a fight. the fight is always to try and create some momentum for the team suddenly down a couple of goals. that has squat to do with emotions boiling over and everything to do tactics to try and win the hockey game.

go to youtube and put matt bradley in. look at the score as the fights start. almost always opposition 2 capitals 0. its not a coincidence. fights like these are far more representative of the average NHL fight than any emotions boiling over, either out of frustration or perceived dirty play.

 

[MJB Devils23*]

I know one thing, I find it hard to believe fighting reduces cheap shots. But that fact is next to impossible to prove. I do find it a little eery that over the past couple of years, 4 notorious fighters have passed. But why now? It has to be just a coincidence because why haven't there been goon deaths every year?

 

[Mayor Bee]

[deleted]

 

[tarheelhockey]

Does this change my stance on fighting. No. It has always been apart of the game and always will be. These guys make a living chucking knuckles, adgitating and making game changing hits. Lets be honest even the lowest paid enforcer/gritty player makes a hansome wage compared to the average joe. Their job is always on thin ice like most peoples but they always have the AHL, KHL and other leagues to fall back to and still make more money then the average person.

It isn't about money. Nobody here is arguing that they aren't paid enough... this is about their health.

I hope you wouldn't be in favor of professional Russian Roulette as long as the players were well paid.

 

[alanschu]

Nope, I still love fighting. Its part of hockey's tradition and we need to accept it.
Honestly, I wish more sports embraced fighting like hockey does. IMO it would end a lot of the cheap shots and trash talk that other sports have.

Hockey is laden with cheapshots. Certainly a lot more than I ever saw in basketball. I see more people patting each other on the backs in NFL football than raging over a hard hit too.

The best way to end a lot of cheap shots is for the league to become exceptionally punitive towards the act. Large suspensions for large parts of the season, which penalizes the player financially and from a hockey standpoint.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sports like basketball and football don't really need fighting to settle their scores. If someone cheap shots me during a basketball game, I cheap shot them back. Sometimes it just goes back and forth through the whole game, and all that really happens is you get a few bruises. Back-and-forth in hockey can mean broken bones and stitches.

 

[tacogeoff]

It isn't about money. Nobody here is arguing that they aren't paid enough... this is about their health.

I hope you wouldn't be in favor of professional Russian Roulette as long as the players were well paid.

ya professional Russian Roulette...........

Their health? Obviously the few that passed on had problems with drugs, helath and mental illness. None of that came from fighting in the NHL. They came from family issues, genes and lifestyle choices....

I hope you are not equating that being a player who drops the gloves in the NHL you must do drugs or have mental health issues........

Emotions boiling over has nothing to do with a good deal of the current fighting in the NHL. That's the problem. It has become wrestling-like because it is choreographed to some degree.

Ummmm, ya...... How about you get out on the ice and get punched in the face and tell me its choreographed like wrestling.....

A good deal are heavyweights squaring off but a good deal is also emotional.

So you believe that when there is a fight between designated toughs that it is emotion boiled over?

Usually, something happens in the game and each coach then throws out their goon on the next shift and they fight. It's almost never in the heat of battle.

You disagree with that?

I disagree on your take on fighting in general. Believe it or not some "goons" have general dislike and distaste for each other. That is usually a form of emotion......... or do you think they are emotionless robots who just throw punches at each other.............

 

[txpd]

brendan shanahan has given and interview with the cbc where he says, "We're definitely very serious in making advancements in studying blows to the head, we have to also look at fighting," said Shanahan.

its very hard to take a hard line stance on eliminating blows to the head and not address fighting.

 

[BogsDiamond]

I grew up watching hockey in the 80's.
Every team had a gunslinger and I looked forward to every Wings game knowing there was a chance Probie or Kocur would destroy someone.
With guys like Probie, Kocur and middleweights like Gallant and Snepts, every game had potential for a dandy.

But I've grown-up since then. And I've come to realize that fighting isn't what it once was.
I read Probie's book and the man barely worked out. He certainly never trained for fighting during the offseason.

Today, Probie would be a medium-sized enforcer. There are some seriously huge boys patrolling the waters now.
And they don't train on beer and potato chips.
They're in boxing rings and MMA cages.
Look at recent clip of Trevor Gillies training and you see he's built like a truck and is perfecting his striking skills.
These aren't two overgrown lumexes trading untrained punches. These are big, strong , fighting machines tossing hardened and accurate shots.
Look at Boogiemans last fight. Or his bout with Todd Fedoruk.
Or how about Ivanais getting knocked out cold from a Steve McIntyre right in the first game of the season last year.

As a responsible human being, I can't look at what's happening and say "I endorse fighting".
People's lives are genuinely at stake here.
Some don't believe there's a link between fighting and what happened with Boogard, Rypien and Belak. I disagree. Regardless, there seems to be a link between drugs and enforcers.

The case used to be made that goons protect players and keep the games safe.
That's simply not true anymore. The game's never been more dangerous despite bigger and stronger goons being employed.
And look at the list of suspended players in the pre-season. Half of them are goons! They're the ones who are supposed to prevent these dangerous hits!

It's a different world now.
I think it's time we end fighting in the game.
Olympic and World Jr hockey are the best games going right now, and neither have fighting.
So perhaps the NHL needs to take a look at that and make some hard choices.
The league has a number of teams struggling to stay afloat.
Cut the fat, reduce the league to 20-24 teams and ensure the best of the best are playing.

Like txpd said, you can't earn any credibility by rallying against head-shots, but still allow players to openly engage in bare-knuckle fighting.

 

[tacogeoff]

brendan shanahan has given and interview with the cbc where he says, "We're definitely very serious in making advancements in studying blows to the head, we have to also look at fighting," said Shanahan.

its very hard to take a hard line stance on eliminating blows to the head and not address fighting.

Saw that this morning as well. Not the full interview but just a condensed version.

Being a realist I have to say that you are never going to eliminate blows to the head. To think you can is ludacrous. You can reduce head hits which are on purpose but you cannot eliminate accidents. You can reduce the amount of head hits with punishment but you cannot eliminate them.

That being said. I understand why they would want to look at fighting. But to take that gritty, raw and physical aspect out of the game in my mind will create those girly football and basketball scrums that just look funny. Maybe thats what people want to see though...a softer side of hockey with limited/timid physical play and no fighting.

Regardless it is going to be interesting. I will have to catch the rest of the interview.

 

[BogsDiamond]

Saw that this morning as well. Not the full interview but just a condensed version.

Being a realist I have to say that you are never going to eliminate blows to the head. To think you can is ludacrous. You can reduce head hits which are on purpose but you cannot eliminate accidents. You can reduce the amount of head hits with punishment but you cannot eliminate them.

That being said. I understand why they would want to look at fighting. But to take that gritty, raw and physical aspect out of the game in my mind will create those girly football and basketball scrums that just look funny. Maybe thats what people want to see though...a softer side of hockey with limited/timid physical play and no fighting.

Regardless it is going to be interesting. I will have to catch the rest of the interview.

At the same time, it could have some positive aspects such as no more ridiculous goal-mouth scrums that occurred simply because someone looked at the goalie after a whistle.
And we also won't have to endure those horribly lame, pre-planned scraps.
Most goon fights are boring anyway.

 

[tacogeoff]

At the same time, it could have some positive aspects such as no more ridiculous goal-mouth scrums that occurred simply because someone looked at the goalie after a whistle.
And we also won't have to endure those horribly lame, pre-planned scraps.
Most goon fights are boring anyway.

I believe there will still be those great glove facewash scrums lol. The players will have to get their emotions out in some form without physical contact.

My main concern is that players will really reduce the physical aspect of the game with all the suspensions. Do you go for the big open ice hit that will bring the arena roaring to its feet?! or do you poke or stick check or the player cause you are afraid if you accidently hit the players head you will be suspended for a few games.

I see both a positive and a negative side to this ordeal.

Some goon fights are boring but hey when you are in a arena at a live game it is the only other time besides a goal that everyone is on their feet cheering........so I guess some people enjoy them....just sayin

 

[BogsDiamond]

I believe there will still be those great glove facewash scrums lol. The players will have to get their emotions out in some form without physical contact.

My main concern is that players will really reduce the physical aspect of the game with all the suspensions. Do you go for the big open ice hit that will bring the arena roaring to its feet?! or do you poke or stick check or the player cause you are afraid if you accidently hit the players head you will be suspended for a few games.

I see both a positive and a negative side to this ordeal.

Some goon fights are boring but hey when you are in a arena at a live game it is the only other time besides a goal that everyone is on their feet cheering........so I guess some people enjoy them....just sayin

Absolutely! I'll never argue that fighting isn't entertaining.
But I also believe that's the only thing it offers anymore.
And if that's the case, is the game so bad that we need to allow bare-knuckle boxing to help promote it?
The NHL could have ****-fighting during intermissions and I doubt many would leave their seats for it.
So in that regard, my question is, just because it's entertaining, does it belong in the game?

I've changed my views over the years. I honestly don't believe fighting does anything to change the outcome of games. If it did, we'd see even more of it in the playoffs.
Fighting is a sideshow attraction and I'm not sure the NHL wants to risk a P.R. nightmare where a player is dead on the ice only to satisfy the blood-lust of it's fans.
We had 3 goons die this summer and it was all over the news - and not in a good way.
I can only imagine what kind of damage would occur for the NHL if someone died, ala Don Sanderson, in an NHL game.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful reply. It's nice to discuss fighting and voicing my displeasure for it without name calling being involved.