Has this offseason changed your view about fighting in hockey?

tacogeoff

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
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Killarney, MB
ziggy wants fighting. thats the bottom line and he is allowed his opinion.

where my opinion and ziggy's conflict is that he and those like minded fans dont want any reduction in fighting. they would be very happy to see more. while i think the time has come to check the optional fights at the door in order to save the required fights as part of the game.

Come on. Dont put words in my mouth. I do enjoy the entertainment factor of fighting in hockey. It adds an edge to the game which helps increase interest and viewership in todays more aggresive society.

I did not say that I would like to see an increase in fighting. I am satisfied with going to a game and seeing the odd fight. The building explosdes with energy and cheering and it makes for a great spectical besides a big hit or a nice goal. If there were eight fights a game....every game that would get very tiring very fast.

If two guys talk to each other and agree to a fight. So be it. It isn't WWE, someone is getting plowed in the face. It is better then having Bertuzzi situations were a player chases another around the rink and A) jumps them or B) Sucker punches them. Usually injuries occur in these situations.

I guess I am a bit rough around the edges and played competitive hockey were fights did occur. It has become part of Hockey for me and adds a rawness to the game.

I regress. I am done here lol.

I do appreciate and understand your view by the way. I am just sharing my take.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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A decision is a decision. the previous poster proved my point. He consciously decided to fight in order to propel himself into a NHL organization. Obviously he has been a fan of the game and knew what the game entails and that his offensive play was not up to snuff. No one made him or forced him to follow the path he did.

This is where I previously brought in the example of professional Russian Roulette. Perhaps that was a bit off-target, so consider the following hypothetical.

Say I find a man who has just lost a high-paying job and is on the verge of being crushed by his debts. I offer to pay him a salary equal to the one he used to make, preventing him from watching his heretofore-successful life fall apart in slow motion. But he must agree to be the test subject at my novelty-item company. We make things like flamethrowers, ejector seats, and radiation guns. Things that MIGHT harm or kill him, though we're mainly just concerned about whether he can get up and walk away with his injuries. Otherwise we couldn't care less about whether he develops cancer, dementia, etc in the long run.

Now, technically this guy is making a decision to work for me... that's undeniable. And if it wasn't him, it would be someone else (there's a long waiting list of desperate suckers for this high-paying job). But would you say my company has NO moral responsibility for what we're doing to our test subjects? That the value of our novelty amusement product outweighs the harm we do to our employees over the course of a lifetime?
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
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New Bern, NC
i am not putting words in your mouth. if fighting fell off the and the odd fight was there on a less consistant basis, would that bother you? it appears that it would.

you also appear to be leaning oftely hard on the a player giving in the having to fight for an nhl career as he is choosing to fight. the fact that he clearly has said that he doesnt want to do it and if he could he wouldnt do it seems to have little effect.

hendricks clearly says that he thought his hockey game was enough to be in the league. he found that a player he was competiting with for a roster spot could beat him out by being willing to fight. hendricks willingness to fight then earned him the spot. in other words if the fighting were removed from the equation, hendricks gets the spot.

again, the comment that the player chooses to fight makes it sound like they want to fight when the reality is that they will fight if its their only option left. those, to me, are two different things.
 

tacogeoff

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
11,590
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Killarney, MB
i am not putting words in your mouth. if fighting fell off the and the odd fight was there on a less consistant basis, would that bother you? it appears that it would.

you also appear to be leaning oftely hard on the a player giving in the having to fight for an nhl career as he is choosing to fight. the fact that he clearly has said that he doesnt want to do it and if he could he wouldnt do it seems to have little effect.

hendricks clearly says that he thought his hockey game was enough to be in the league. he found that a player he was competiting with for a roster spot could beat him out by being willing to fight. hendricks willingness to fight then earned him the spot. in other words if the fighting were removed from the equation, hendricks gets the spot.

again, the comment that the player chooses to fight makes it sound like they want to fight when the reality is that they will fight if its their only option left. those, to me, are two different things.


I never said they want to. I said they made the decision to drop their gloves. A decision is a decision even if it is influenced. I am assuming hendricks is a smart man and wants to get the spot and "decides" to fight to make the spot. No one is making him fight. It is his "decision" to do so.

I may be wrong but I am 99% sure in all my posts I have not said that they like to fight...that they want to fight. I simply said they make the decision to fight as it is a part of the game and is a entertainment spectacle within the sport.
 

tacogeoff

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
11,590
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Killarney, MB
I am saying that it is their decision and it is part of the entertainment in the game and what has happened over the summer does not chance my perception of fighting in this sport. This sport is entertainment and the players get amazing money to play it to entertain us the fans. If they do decide to drop fighting that is fine. As a fan they entertain me so I would not like to see that happen. A majority of injuries occur from dirty hits, blind sided hits, icing rules and cheapshots. So in my eyes it is not a major factor in overall injuries to players. They decide to drop the gloves and they understand injury may occur. I am just worried about over regulation of the game in the aspects of fighting and body contact. I don't want to see any life ending injuries as well but with all the recent suspensions it is going to be interesting to see how the game changes in terms of intensity. But I agree with you as well that the players should be protected but it is a very physical game which draws interest to the sport.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
14,131
New Bern, NC
actually, the majority of injuries dont come as a result of anything illegal. btw...whats the differnce between a dirty hit and a cheapshot?
 

tacogeoff

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
11,590
1,801
Killarney, MB
Depends on your definition. To me a dirty hit would be an intended elbow, knee on knee or from behind. A cheap shot to me would be stick work like slashing, butt ends etc or sucker punches.

I was putting it in retrospect to fighting vs "illegal" plays not clean hits.
 

lancer247

Registered User
Jan 16, 2007
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888
i think one idea i read from troy mallette (IIRC) was that if a player is suited up he needs to place atleast 10 or 12 mins in that game. It sounds a little pee wee league but after you think about it it's not that bad.

the idea that it would reduce the number of pure goons that are only iced to drop the gloves. Coaches are going to be reluctant to ice guys like McGrattan, Shelley, etc because they will eventually kill the team with stupid penalties or bad turnovers if they are on the ice for 4 mins on avg every period.

i would add that fighting majors be treated like instigator penalties as far as punishment so players have to pick and choose their battles rather then having goons showcasing themselves with a fight that means nothing.

I don't think these would end fighting but would make it come more in the flow of the game/heat of battle.
 

Banana Sandwiches

Registered User
Jul 18, 2011
2,664
1
i think one idea i read from troy mallette (IIRC) was that if a player is suited up he needs to place atleast 10 or 12 mins in that game. It sounds a little pee wee league but after you think about it it's not that bad.

the idea that it would reduce the number of pure goons that are only iced to drop the gloves. Coaches are going to be reluctant to ice guys like McGrattan, Shelley, etc because they will eventually kill the team with stupid penalties or bad turnovers if they are on the ice for 4 mins on avg every period.

i would add that fighting majors be treated like instigator penalties as far as punishment so players have to pick and choose their battles rather then having goons showcasing themselves with a fight that means nothing.

I don't think these would end fighting but would make it come more in the flow of the game/heat of battle.

Having an arbitrary amount of ice time is dumb. What makes 10 minutes so special? Is it because it's double digits? Plenty of non-fighters on the 4th lines don't play 10 minutes a night.

Also, I don't think Jody Shelley was a wise example to use (nor McGrattan). Shelley was playing 10+ minutes a night down the stretch when he was on the Rangers as they were vying for a playoff spot. Heck, I think he had more ice time than Olli Jokinen in the final game of the season. And if anything, he (along with Anisimov and Prust and of course Lundqvist) were the reason why the Rangers almost made the playoffs in 2010.

And with McGrattan, he was actually seeing some powerplay time in Syracuse in the AHL last season and had 10 points in 20 games for them. I know how much this site likes stats, and you have to admit, those are good numbers for a "goon."

As for the last part of your post, I don't quite understand what you mean by having fighting majors be treated as instigators. Do you want players to get suspended after getting into three fights a season?
 

lancer247

Registered User
Jan 16, 2007
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888
Having an arbitrary amount of ice time is dumb. What makes 10 minutes so special? Is it because it's double digits? Plenty of non-fighters on the 4th lines don't play 10 minutes a night.

Also, I don't think Jody Shelley was a wise example to use (nor McGrattan). Shelley was playing 10+ minutes a night down the stretch when he was on the Rangers as they were vying for a playoff spot. Heck, I think he had more ice time than Olli Jokinen in the final game of the season. And if anything, he (along with Anisimov and Prust and of course Lundqvist) were the reason why the Rangers almost made the playoffs in 2010.

And with McGrattan, he was actually seeing some powerplay time in Syracuse in the AHL last season and had 10 points in 20 games for them. I know how much this site likes stats, and you have to admit, those are good numbers for a "goon."

As for the last part of your post, I don't quite understand what you mean by having fighting majors be treated as instigators. Do you want players to get suspended after getting into three fights a season?

Ten minutes was just a number used for example.
you help make the point with Shelley. Rather then getting into some staged fight he was playing a regular shift.

Yes, the idea would be to escalate the penalty for fighting so players aren't doing staged fights that take away from the game.

i love fighting in hockey. i prefer when it's in the heat of the moment as opposed to guys hugging and throwing peek-a-boo punches for 30 seconds. I don't need my sports seperated like a TV dinner. If i can get fighting in hockey or any sport that's great. I am just saying rather then the league restricting fighting to the point of eliminating it I would rather some rules to just take out the staged fights.

By the way, come on...are you really trying to say McG has any real skills.
 

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