Handball

[Eye of Ra]

Sure, but you also have to factor in how Egypt and Denmark have played.

And Denmark beat all teams outside Sweden comfortably.

Egypt beat all teams outside Denmark comfortably.

Sweden have struggled outside the Denmark game.

Like I said Denmark were without 4 key players, and played poorly.

So not sure if it was just Denmark being poor or Sweden suddenly started playing well.

well tbh we are missing some really good players aswell in Lukas Nilsson, Linus Arnesson, Andreas Nilsson...They are not injured but Solberg just did not select them, he is giving younger players the chance even thought those 3 are clearly better.

Anyways, when do you think Gidsel will leave for a bigger league?

 

[Eye of Ra]

Not sure how much it matters who you play in the next round. I would argue Germany is the weakest team from that group and they could very well win gold. So evenly matched in mens handball these days.

Can only pray Norway have finally woken up. I think they got the best team, but really haven't look good so far. For the men it would surprise me if they now get passed the next round as I don't think the issues they got are easily fixed, but you never know. Obviously a lot more optimistic on behalf of the women. They got a sensational team that is playing well. Biggest risk there is that things are just going too easy and that things get tough mentally when they end up in a tight game. Even with all the experience they got they have a tendency to get a bit stressed. Will be interesting to see.

speaking of germany, im suprised they are not better than they are. Not just talking this olympics but otherwise as well. They have the best league in the world and handball is huge in Germany. I would expect them to be the same level as denmark, spain, france and croatia.

 

[QuietContrarian]

well tbh we are missing some really good players aswell in Lukas Nilsson, Linus Arnesson, Andreas Nilsson...They are not injured but Solberg just did not select them, he is giving younger players the chance even thought those 3 are clearly better.

Anyways, when do you think Gidsel will leave for a bigger league?

He just signed an extention with GOG, as he is in no hurry, even tho there have been many interested clubs - So no idea, he seems like he likes the Danish league, which tbf, is getting quite competitive and strong.

Id wager a guess and say next summer.

But I know Kiel, Vezprem, Flensburg, Barcelona, and PSG, have shown heavy interest.

Imo, he would be a great fit in Kiel - Stay away from the Spanish which has Barcelona, but is overall a weaker league than the Danish, so no reason to go there imo.

Only league he should consider is the German.

 

[Eisen]

speaking of germany, im suprised they are not better than they are. Not just talking this olympics but otherwise as well. They have the best league in the world and handball is huge in Germany. I would expect them to be the same level as denmark, spain, france and croatia.

They have times when they are but at the moment missing crucial pieces. I'd argue that Wolff/Bitter is a great duo, Kastening is great, the central defense is good but the Rückraum (what is that in english? Bakspiller) is hit or miss. In some games they look like worldbeaters (especially Kühn) and in others they don't do anything. Often you'd see them starting games playing like headless chicken. I honestly believe it's mental. I saw them often and I know they can play but it doesn't always translate.

 

[Havre]

In handball you typically need 1-2 special players to win. A bit random where they show up. Some years ago Poland where extremely strong on back of a couple of players. Now Norway got Sagosen. France were obviously more than Karabatic, but there is no way they would have dominated as they did if Karabatic hadn't been there. Hansen for Denmark etc. For all the good German players I think they have missed that little extra. I'm sure a superstar left back or something will come around soon enough for Germany though.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Aalborg need som competition after winning the Danish league 3 years in a row.

And will be even stronger next season with the addition of Palmarson, Bjørnson, Mikkel Hansen, and maybe even Mensah.

 

[QuietContrarian]

In handball you typically need 1-2 special players to win. A bit random where they show up. Some years ago Poland where extremely strong on back of a couple of players. Now Norway got Sagosen. France were obviously more than Karabatic, but there is no way they would have dominated as they did if Karabatic hadn't been there. Hansen for Denmark etc. For all the good German players I think they have missed that little extra. I'm sure a superstar left back or something will come around soon enough for Germany though.

Agree and disagree.

Yes, you need superstars, but even more importantly a well balanced team with few weaknesses - Spain, Denmark, France and Croatia are prime examples of this.

But, imo, most importantly a world class goalie.

Landin and Hvidt for Denmark
Omeyer for France
Perez de Vargas and Sterbik for Spain
Wolff and Fritz for Germany
Svensson for Sweden
Lavrov for Russia and Soviet

 

[Havre]

Agree and disagree.

Yes, you need superstars, but even more importantly a well balanced team with few weaknesses - Spain, Denmark, France and Croatia are prime examples of this.

But, imo, most importantly a world class goalie.

Landin and Hvidt for Denmark
Omeyer for France
Perez de Vargas and Sterbik for Spain
Wolff and Fritz for Germany
Svensson for Sweden
Lavrov for Russia and Soviet

It goes without saying that you need a good team to be the best of course, but often at the end of games you know it will be down to certain players. Spain might be maybe a small exception.

Give Germany prime Hansen, Sagosen, Duvnjak etc. I agree it isn't like basketball that a couple of players can win you the title, but you aren't normally winning with 12 very good players if you haven't got at least 1 excellent player.

Goalkeeping is definitely key. If Landin had been Norwegian.......

 

[Eisen]

Agree and disagree.

Yes, you need superstars, but even more importantly a well balanced team with few weaknesses - Spain, Denmark, France and Croatia are prime examples of this.

But, imo, most importantly a world class goalie.

Landin and Hvidt for Denmark
Omeyer for France
Perez de Vargas and Sterbik for Spain
Wolff and Fritz for Germany
Svensson for Sweden
Lavrov for Russia and Soviet

Ahh, Fritz was awesome.

 

[Havre]

Strange thing with Norway is that our team used to be quite average (for the men), but we often had good goalkeeping. Ege had all his injuries, but for the Norwegian national team he was sensational. We also had guys like Scheie and Erevik etc. Now we have really struggled to find someone solid. Would be a bit much to ask for a Landin, but we would at least need one more on Bergerud´s level. If he has an off day Norway haven't got a chance against the best teams.

 

[QuietContrarian]

It goes without saying that you need a good team to be the best of course, but often at the end of games you know it will be down to certain players. Spain might be maybe a small exception.

Give Germany prime Hansen, Sagosen, Duvnjak etc. I agree it isn't like basketball that a couple of players can win you the title, but you aren't normally winning with 12 very good players if you haven't got at least 1 excellent player.

Goalkeeping is definitely key. If Landin had been Norwegian.......

I would say Denmarks 2008 Euro gold, was won with an allround good team without a true superstar.

It was won on solid goalkeeping, and as mentioned a very allround solid team.

Edit: Maybe some would consider Lars Christiansen world class?

Maybe Hans Lindberg in his prime?

 

[Havre]

I would say Denmarks 2008 Euro gold, was won with an allround good team without a true superstar.

It was won on solid goalkeeping, and as mentioned a very allround solid team.

Don´t get me wrong. There are exceptions. Sweden could have won in 2021, but I don´t think they got anyone the level of Sagosen, Hansen etc.

Especially for the men getting into the later stages almost every game is a coin toss.

I don´t know Bahrain, but it wouldn't be a huge sensation if Sweden as the 3rd in their group go through and the same with Norway as the 4th beating Denmark.

Most likely Spain and Denmark will go through, but I wouldn't consider any of them big favourites. Norway will certainly go in to that game thinking they can win.

In the end though in most championships a team with at least one player better than what Germany got do end up being on the winning team.

Will be interesting to see what happens when the "old guard" disappears. A lot of the best, or at least most dominant in tournaments, players are getting quite old.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Don´t get me wrong. There are exceptions. Sweden could have won in 2021, but I don´t think they got anyone the level of Sagosen, Hansen etc.

Especially for the men getting into the later stages almost every game is a coin toss.

I don´t know Bahrain, but it wouldn't be a huge sensation if Sweden as the 3rd in their group go through and the same with Norway as the 4th beating Denmark.

Most likely Spain and Denmark will go through, but I wouldn't consider any of them big favourites. Norway will certainly go in to that game thinking they can win.

In the end though in most championships a team with at least one player better than what Germany got do end up being on the winning team.

Will be interesting to see what happens when the "old guard" disappears. A lot of the best, or at least most dominant in tournaments, players are getting quite old.

At this stage (Outside Bahrain) anyone can win tbh.

Sweden have this crazy ability to just play above their level at times.

And Norway have Sagosen - And I think Norway are still pissed about loosing big twice to Denmark at the 2019 WC.

Denmark have a good number of young players coming up, like Gidsel, who is on his way to becoming world class - And another possible great goalie in youngster Emil Nielsen.

They always do well at youth levels aswell.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Also, I am annoyed Denmark are missing Lauge for the millionth time at a major tournament.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Aalborg need som competition after winning the Danish league 3 years in a row.

And will be even stronger next season with the addition of Palmarson, Bjørnson, Mikkel Hansen, and maybe even Mensah.

Jesper Nielsen aswell.

Sandell and Claar have been great for Aalborg. But i dont think there is any more room for them with all the players Aalborg added.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Don´t get me wrong. There are exceptions. Sweden could have won in 2021, but I don´t think they got anyone the level of Sagosen, Hansen etc.

Especially for the men getting into the later stages almost every game is a coin toss.

I don´t know Bahrain, but it wouldn't be a huge sensation if Sweden as the 3rd in their group go through and the same with Norway as the 4th beating Denmark.

Most likely Spain and Denmark will go through, but I wouldn't consider any of them big favourites. Norway will certainly go in to that game thinking they can win.

In the end though in most championships a team with at least one player better than what Germany got do end up being on the winning team.

Will be interesting to see what happens when the "old guard" disappears. A lot of the best, or at least most dominant in tournaments, players are getting quite old.

Sweden had kim andersson who was pure world class for many years, but he always was horrible for out nt. only time he played good was olympics 2012 - when we won silver.

I would argue that Marcus Ahlm was worldclass too, but he was a traitor and ended his NT-career very early.

 

[Havre]

Sweden got a Norwegian coach so

I was very optimistic on behalf of Norway before the tournament. I think Sagosen is the best player in the world. Rød is back on right back. Huge miss for Norway in Egypt with Tønnesen having had all his injuries and Rød missing. Reinkind is just so one dimensional and usually struggles in big games (even if he is very good for his club). Reinkind as 3rd choice is brilliant, but Reinkind as 1st choice doesn't work.

Johannessen missing is huge, but few teams got all of their players available and in top form so.

Can only hope it will be one of those tournament where the winning team looks a bit sluggish early on. Doesn't feel like it for Norway, but shooting percentage against Germany and Spain was ridiculously low. If there is some regression to the mean going on now and if Bergerud can be within a couple of % vs Landin in saves then Norway could suddenly be dangerous again. I guess we will see if my theory comes true.

Gidsel is a very interesting player. Not sure if it was in Egypt or the tournament before I first saw him, but it felt like "again Denmark just found someone from "nowhere" that means they will beat Norway".

 

[Eye of Ra]

I would say Denmarks 2008 Euro gold, was won with an allround good team without a true superstar.

It was won on solid goalkeeping, and as mentioned a very allround solid team.

Edit: Maybe some would consider Lars Christiansen world class?

Maybe Hans Lindberg in his prime?

Michael v Knudsen

Sweden got a Norwegian coach so

I was very optimistic on behalf of Norway before the tournament. I think Sagosen is the best player in the world. Rød is back on right back. Huge miss for Norway in Egypt with Tønnesen having had all his injuries and Rød missing. Reinkind is just so one dimensional and usually struggles in big games (even if he is very good for his club). Reinkind as 3rd choice is brilliant, but Reinkind as 1st choice doesn't work.

Johannessen missing is huge, but few teams got all of their players available and in top form so.

Can only hope it will be one of those tournament where the winning team looks a bit sluggish early on. Doesn't feel like it for Norway, but shooting percentage against Germany and Spain was ridiculously low. If there is some regression to the mean going on now and if Bergerud can be within a couple of % vs Landin in saves then Norway could suddenly be dangerous again. I guess we will see if my theory comes true.

Gidsel is a very interesting player. Not sure if it was in Egypt or the tournament before I first saw him, but it felt like "again Denmark just found someone from "nowhere" that means they will beat Norway".

Solberg is a good coach and was a great player in his time. But he really should have included Arnesson, Lukas Nilsson and Andreas Nilsson in the team. He is relying too much on youth players.

 

[Havre]

Sweden had kim andersson who was pure world class for many years, but he always was horrible for out nt. only time he played good was olympics 2012 - when we won silver.

I would argue that Marcus Ahlm was worldclass too, but he was a traitor and ended his NT-career very early.

Sweden have had many world class players. Just not right now - and in the squad for the 2021 WC.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Sweden have had many world class players. Just not right now - and in the squad for the 2021 WC.

Wanne and Ekberg is worldclass. Maybe even Gottfridsson.

 

[Havre]

Wanne and Ekberg is worldclass. Maybe even Gottfridsson.

Rate them all, but I would never mention those in the same breath as players like Karabatic, Hansen, Sagosen etc.

And there is only so much a winger can do. Not saying they aren't important, but if your best player is a winger he isn't going to do much unless there are others there to create space for him. The days when you had fast wingers that would score 5-6 goals each on the counter attack seem to be gone.

And I think it is fair to say no-one expected Sweden to reach the final in Egypt. It wasn't because everyone knew Gottfridsson and Wanne would take them far.

 

[Lambo]

speaking of germany, im suprised they are not better than they are. Not just talking this olympics but otherwise as well. They have the best league in the world and handball is huge in Germany. I would expect them to be the same level as denmark, spain, france and croatia.

Well, handball is not that big in Germany. Of course there will be more handball than e.g. Played ice hockey, but ice hockey is no less popular. Just like basketball and volleyball. Handball is not the clear number 2 in Germany and is very much overshadowed by football.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Rate them all, but I would never mention those in the same breath as players like Karabatic, Hansen, Sagosen etc.

And there is only so much a winger can do. Not saying they aren't important, but if your best player is a winger he isn't going to do much unless there are others there to create space for him. The days when you had fast wingers that would score 5-6 goals each on the counter attack seem to be gone.

And I think it is fair to say no-one expected Sweden to reach the final in Egypt. It wasn't because everyone knew Gottfridsson and Wanne would take them far.

well ekberg is a right winger, he plays different position than Hansen, Sagosen etc. Ekberg is a world class player as a right winger. Wanne as a left winger. Wanne is not as famous as Ekberg, but have been just crazy good last 2 seasons.

Yes Sweden is below France, Spain, Croatia and Denmark. Then its Norway, Sweden, Germany, Egypt, Portugal, Slovenia, Hungary etc all on the same level.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Well, handball is not that big in Germany. Of course there will be more handball than e.g. Played ice hockey, but ice hockey is no less popular. Just like basketball and volleyball. Handball is not the clear number 2 in Germany and is very much overshadowed by football.

what sports is nr 2 and nr 3 in germany?

 

[Havre]

well ekberg is a right winger, he plays different position than Hansen, Sagosen etc. Ekberg is a world class player as a right winger. Wanne as a left winger. Wanne is not as famous as Ekberg, but have been just crazy good last 2 season.

That was my point - they are wingers.

But I take your point. I should have been more precise when saying world class. I guess I should have continued using special player or something. In handball for me that means goalkeeper and the three "back" players. You have had some wingers and pivots historically that have been so good they have influenced games more heavily than what players in those positions normally can (at least offensively), but I think that really never happens any longer. Maybe it changes again I don´t know.