Speculation: Hammond is a flash in the pan.

[Bileur]

I think it was painfully obvious to anyone watching the games that Hammond's stats last season were unsustainable. Even when pitching low scoring games he looked extremely shaky.

Hammond was never, ever,ever signed to be Lehner's replacement as part of a legacy plan.

He was signed to be Anderson's back up.

Lehner was traded b/c the organization decided he wasn't going to be the next starter for Ottawa b/c he was never going to beat Andy out for the starter's position while Andy was here, and the next starter from the system was a player to be named later (maybe Hogberg, maybe O'Connor, maybe someone else), and he was a more valuable piece if he was moved sooner rather than later. The only way Hammond figures into the decision to move Lehner is that Hammond earned a back-up goalie's role for two years - nothing more.

Moving Lehner was a decent move and the return was good.

The mistake was made when Lehner was rated more highly than Bishop and we moved Bishop to keep Lehner as the 'next one.'

I think this is 100% accurate. Good post.

 

[Icelevel]

I don't think building the goaltending and defense for the future is "minor renovations"

We need 2 top 4 D to fix our D, and by the time we get that, Andy will be old.

This build we have going is terrible. Where is the vision this team was built upon? Terrible.

i don't consider adding 2 or 3 players to be a big tear down/rebuild. and that could be all we need.
the problems are more with owner and management. the blame is getting put on the players. it will continue until the top changes.
what thread am i in?

 

[Engineer]

No. That's total BS.

Lots of these guys are RIGHT b/c they called this. That's not hindsight - it's foresight.

Yeah, no.


http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1394359&highlight=bishop+conacher

 

[Larionov]

A big part of this is the fact that everyone is waiting for Hammond to turn into a pumpkin, so to speak. The run he went on was so improbable, given his resume to that point, that at the first sign of trouble you feel like saying, "Ah ha! I knew it couldn't last."

Goalies are freaking voodoo - just look at James Reimer. Last year at this time, I was convinced that the dude was on his way out of the NHL. Now he is standing on his head and playing incredibly well, just as the Leafs were about to give up on him. He's probably going to come in here tomorrow night and shine as he always does.

The unfortunate part is that we now need Hammond to play some games HERE, not in the AHL. Andy is clearly overworked and off his game, and as a result we need Hammond to soak up some starts. Season is shot anyway, so we might as well find out if in fact Hammond can play consistently at this level or not...

 

[mcnorth]

Yeah, no.


http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1394359&highlight=bishop+conacher

There's plenty of posts all over this board with the Bishop vs Lehner arguments. That thread is mostly about the Conacher deal rather than Bishop vs Lehner.

 

[Engineer]

There's plenty of posts all over this board with the Bishop vs Lehner arguments. That thread is mostly about the Conacher deal rather than Bishop vs Lehner.

Might want to reread the posts on this thread.

 

[pm88]

I think Hammond is a decent goalie but I was never infatuated with him as a lot of fans were last season. There's no doubt that his run last season was one of the best ever but how many times have we seen this story in sports history? Guy comes out of nowhere to lead his team on a epic run to the playoffs or to a championship and Hammond was no different when it comes to this.

He had a hell of a run but I don't know if this guy has a long term future in Ottawa. We've seen his story so many times about how you have a player going on a crazy run and then slowly fizzling out of the league and for all we know that can be what happens to Hammond as well. I hope it doesn't, because he seems like a good guy, but it's a real possibility that it can too.

In the end if this team trades him away or doesn't resign him I don't that we'd be trading away the next Roy or Brodeur or anything like that.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think we all knew this though. Also. Is Andy going to last another 3-4 years for oconnor to be ready?

We managed our goalies like absolute garbage.
This is not a shot at Andy. He's an awesome goalie

 

[Legend Killer]

Trading Bishop was a mistake.
Trading Lehner will be a mistake if he turns out to be a #1 goalie.
Signing Hammond was a mistake.

Only the Sens could bungle a goalie sitch that bad... As well as Vancouver... Just unfortunate.

 

[pm88]

The sad thing is you can't argue ''But if we kept Bishop we wouldn't have Conacher!'' either because we ****ING WAIVED HIM. Giving bishop away for basically free hurts my face.

Christ, Lehner and Bishop would have been a great wombo combo

I agree it would have been a good combo but I think there would have been problems in the future with that because both are young goalies who want to be starting goalies in the NHL. I think eventually one of them would become tired of being the backup and start creating some friction about the lack of playing time.

I personally wanted this team to keep Lehner but from all accounts it seemed like he was tired of being the backup to Anderson and wanted to be a #1 goalie right now . In an ideal situation I would have gone with the Anderson-Lehner combo for another couple of years until O'connor was NHL ready and then evaluate how Lehner was progressing as a goalie. If he hadn't shown much improvement I would have said to trade him as you could use his potential as a selling point to another team. If O'Connor lived up to the hype and was ready I would've brought him up and allow Anderson to become the backup/tutor to O'Connor. If O'Connor struggled we could always have to turned back to the reliable veteran in Anderson since we know what we're getting with him.

I always thought that would be a decent scenario but things turned out differently of course.

 

[aragorn]

A big part of this is the fact that everyone is waiting for Hammond to turn into a pumpkin, so to speak. The run he went on was so improbable, given his resume to that point, that at the first sign of trouble you feel like saying, "Ah ha! I knew it couldn't last."

Goalies are freaking voodoo - just look at James Reimer. Last year at this time, I was convinced that the dude was on his way out of the NHL. Now he is standing on his head and playing incredibly well, just as the Leafs were about to give up on him. He's probably going to come in here tomorrow night and shine as he always does.

The unfortunate part is that we now need Hammond to play some games HERE, not in the AHL. Andy is clearly overworked and off his game, and as a result we need Hammond to soak up some starts. Season is shot anyway, so we might as well find out if in fact Hammond can play consistently at this level or not...

I don't see how Anderson is over worked, he just came off a weeks holiday from the all-star break. He is suppose to be one of these goalies that gets better with more work. The fact is he is an average goaltender who is hot & cold & Hammond is a below average goaltender who had one great run last yr. They both let in weak or unfortunate goals at inopportune times that seem to kill any momentum the team has. How often does this team get scored on after they score a big goal? A lot it seems. They can't seem to hold a lead & goaltending is part of that problem but so is a number of other aspects to this team right now. So I'm not saying it's all goaltending but they have been as bad as the rest of the team, nothing seems to be going right for them at the moment.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I agree it would have been a good combo but I think there would have been problems in the future with that because both are young goalies who want to be starting goalies in the NHL. I think eventually one of them would become tired of being the backup and start creating some friction about the lack of playing time.

I personally wanted this team to keep Lehner but from all accounts it seemed like he was tired of being the backup to Anderson and wanted to be a #1 goalie right now . In an ideal situation I would have gone with the Anderson-Lehner combo for another couple of years until O'connor was NHL ready and then evaluate how Lehner was progressing as a goalie. If he hadn't shown much improvement I would have said to trade him as you could use his potential as a selling point to another team. If O'Connor lived up to the hype and was ready I would've brought him up and allow Anderson to become the backup/tutor to O'Connor. If O'Connor struggled we could always have to turned back to the reliable veteran in Anderson since we know what we're getting with him.

I always thought that would be a decent scenario but things turned out differently of course.

That's why you trade one of them. Now. Trade Andy back then. Let bishop and lehner grow. Then trade one. Probably lehner. Bishop should be our goalie now with another guy like oconnor waiting developing.

We got less for bishop than what we gave up for him. High is amazing because his stock rose significantly.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Andy should have been the one moved back in that season. Said that then. And I'll say that now. Who's going be playing between Andy and oconnor?

 

[aragorn]

That's why you trade one of them. Now. Trade Andy back then. Let bishop and lehner grow. Then trade one. Probably lehner. Bishop should be our goalie now with another guy like oconnor waiting developing.

We got less for bishop than what we gave up for him. High is amazing because his stock rose significantly.

While I agree they should have kept Bishop it's hindsight, who knows what kind of a goalie he would be with this team in front of him. The return for Bishop was extremely disappointing, no question about that.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Does anyone notice the first poster in that bishop for conacher thread is someone with guptill in his name? Some foreshadowing of a future bad deal in a thread of a bad deal?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

The unfortunate part is that we now need Hammond to play some games HERE, not in the AHL. Andy is clearly overworked and off his game, and as a result we need Hammond to soak up some starts. Season is shot anyway, so we might as well find out if in fact Hammond can play consistently at this level or not...

People saying Hammond needs to help Ottawa win are pointing the fingers at the wrong factor. Neither goalie is the problem in Ottawa. Look at Craig Anderson's game logs this past month.

For the sake of simplifying things, hopefully we can agree Anderson is at the very least a league average starting goalie.

Anderson's numbers this month are awful. He has an .844 save percentage in 11 starts.

Hammond's numbers are bad as well, but you can see this clearly isn't a case where the number 2 goalie is playing terrible. His save percentage is in line with Anderson's. The team isn't losing because of goaltending. It would take Hasek like goaltending for this team to win right now. Anybody watching the games can see the goaltending isn't the issue.

Nothing that Hammond has done so far has proven him not to be a backup caliber goalie. So if Ottawa is so afraid of playing a backup goalie, that they have to run Craig Anderson into the ground by playing him 60-70 games in a season where he'll face an absurd amount of shots each game, than there is something wrong with the team, not the goaltending.

Anderson's numbers were significantly better earlier on during the season....so were Hammonds. Although it was a small sample size, Hammond only had one sub .900 game prior to January. So even without watching games, just by looking at the numbers, we can either assume that both goalies took a nosedive in performance at almost the exact same time and are playing awful.....or that the team's record prior to January was unsustainable and something other than the goaltending is to blame.

Hammond is the least of Ottawa's worries. I am not arguing that he's never let in a bad goal or had a bad game, but if you watch the games and look at the bigger picture, you can see a steep overall decline in team save percentage as a whole, and Hammond's numbers this last month or so reflect that. Start complaining about Hammond when Anderson is putting up .915+ and Hammond can't crack .900.

 

[jbeck5]

i don't consider adding 2 or 3 players to be a big tear down/rebuild. and that could be all we need.
the problems are more with owner and management. the blame is getting put on the players. it will continue until the top changes.
what thread am i in?

If We were to acquire a #2 and #4 D (because thats what we need, methot is a #3 and ceci a #5) it would most likely open holes somewhere else where we would need to fill.

It's not just adding 2 players.

We have a lot of dead weight to get rid of and a lot of better players to bring in. The 2 defenseman are just the more glaring ones. And like i said, by the time we get that, anderson will probably declining and we'll need to go out and get a goalie.

I wish i knew what management's plan was.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, goaltending is an issue for the team as well as defense and secondary scoring, we're terrible.

 

[Engineer]

I wish i knew what management's plan was.

Top 6 F

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yeah, goaltending is an issue for the team as well as defense and secondary scoring, we're terrible.

These problem are all created by themselves.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

While I agree they should have kept Bishop it's hindsight, who knows what kind of a goalie he would be with this team in front of him. The return for Bishop was extremely disappointing, no question about that.

They should have kept bishop on the fact alone that Andys stock was higher. And was much older. Bishop was playing well for us not as if he was joe blow.

We had 3 good goalies. Everyone older than the other. And we managed them backwards. It was weirdest thing.

 

[jbeck5]

Top 6 F

Yeah. Even today, i get back from class and my dad says "i hear ottawa needs a power forward?" from listening to the radio lol

Yes, we need a power forward.

Let's trade our first for chris stewart.


I have this weird feeling murray will do something stupid like this.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yeah. Even today, i get back from class and my dad says "i hear ottawa needs a power forward?" from listening to the radio lol

Yes, we need a power forward.

Let's trade our first for chris stewart.


I have this weird feeling murray will do something stupid like this.

Or he snags clarkson

 

[Legend Killer]

Yeah. Even today, i get back from class and my dad says "i hear ottawa needs a power forward?" from listening to the radio lol

Yes, we need a power forward.

Let's trade our first for chris stewart.


I have this weird feeling murray will do something stupid like this.

We just have just kept Nick Foligno... Perfect top 6/9 fwd for this team.

 

[Xspyrit]

To the people thinking Anderson has been God-like mode this year

55 Goalies who played more than 690 minutes this season (Hammond has 696 mins) :

Low-Danger Save Percentage

Anderson is 20th
Hammond is 52th
Bishop is 13th

Medium-Danger Save Percentage

Anderson is 44th
Hammond is 55th
Bishop is 5th

High-Danger Save Percentage

Anderson is 38th
Hammond is 25th
Bishop is 24th


Anderson is better at making routine stops. Hammond is better at making tough saves, Bishop is better at stopping medium saves


Team defense is a mess actually but let's be honest, our goalies haven't been very good this season either.

Best starters this season for High-Danger Save Percentage are Schneider, Quick, Crawford, Luongo, Mrazek, Talbot, Holtby...

For more info :

http://war-on-ice.com/goalietable.html

----------

Best Andy season with the Sens (2012-13, although he played only 1414 minutes). I kept 690 minutes, so out of 52 goalies :

Low-Danger Save Percentage : 2nd
Medium-Danger Save Percentage : 10th
High-Danger Save Percentage : 13th

This is why this team could never do a true rebuild many fans don't understand what that means.

Yup. No chance that this should be an option. Geographically stuck between the 2 biggest markets

I think it was painfully obvious to anyone watching the games that Hammond's stats last season were unsustainable. Even when pitching low scoring games he looked extremely shaky.

I have never been super high on Hammond. I mean, he can have a short back-up career but never thought he had starter potential, even though he did great last year. I don't think he can ever get closer to that "glory" again.

That's why you trade one of them. Now. Trade Andy back then. Let bishop and lehner grow. Then trade one. Probably lehner. Bishop should be our goalie now with another guy like oconnor waiting developing.

We got less for bishop than what we gave up for him. High is amazing because his stock rose significantly.

Gave up a 2nd, got Conacher and a 4th. Conacher was worth a lot more than a 2nd AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE, he was a Calder candidate after being a star and PPG player in the AHL. Don't let hindsight screw your judgment