Habs Tonight on PK vs Max debate

[All Star John Scott]

Sorry I didn't know where this should go, feel free to move it. Anyone else seen this channel? Has Weise on it saying he doesn't think Max got the most votes, and it was super weird that they were voting on a captain as professionals.

Click to read more...

 

[Crusher117]

I think it's evident that PK got the most votes. Management always disliked how his brand was overtaking their brand. They made him the scapegoat and traded him away.

 

[le_sean]

Yeah a team “vote” only makes sense when you know someone will be unanimous (like when Weber was acquired). Otherwise you’re going to alienate a player.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I like Weise's podcast. He offers interesting takes and inside knowledge. And the best part about him is that he's someone who's been around the team in the last several years, so he sometimes shares some juicy nuggets.

He was there during the Therrien years with the likes of Subban, Pacioretty, Price, DD, and that group. But he was also there the last two years so he has some insight on what it's like with Weber, KK, Suzuki, Laval, etc.

He's not out there letting it all out there. But he does share some interesting tidbits that we all wondered and theorized about.

 

[JianYang]

Saku koivu was also named captain through a team vote.

I don't think it's necessarily a weird thing to do, but listening to weise's podcast here and there, and listening to Prust on another podcast, it basically just reaffirms the notion that PK was a very polarizing figure in the dressing room.

 

[Skip Bayless]

In my mind both Patches and Subban were the wrong choices.

The media put so much pressure on them choosing a captain, but the right move was to wait until Gally was ready.

I remember even Lafleur saying Gallagher should be captain before they chose Patches.

 

[1909]

Saku koivu was also named captain through a team vote.

I don't think it's necessarily a weird thing to do, but listening to weise's podcast here and there, and listening to Prust on another podcast, it basically just reaffirms the notion that PK was a very polarizing figure in the dressing room.

Of course, he was. But folks on this board don't believe it even if ex-teamates say it.

 

[1909]

I think it's evident that PK got the most votes. Management always disliked how his brand was overtaking their brand. They made him the scapegoat and traded him away.

That's part of the problem. Never saw PK with a Habs' cap in the last 6 months or so he was with the team. Yes. He was getting bigger than the team. And hockey is a "team" sport.

 

[Miller Time]

No surprises...

MB/MT created the toxic environment they then scapegoated first PK, then Patches with.

Was evident back then, further confirmed now.

The weird thing is that some fans STILL don't seem able or capable of seeing MB for what he is... & Prefer to stay attached to the BS narratives & excuses he proliferated than to admit they got duped & move on.

What could've been... Building around a core with a Hart worthy goalie & a Norris worthy dman, both in their prime, both willing to put in the work to be winners... Such a damn shame.

 

[Mrb1p]

Of course, he was. But folks on this board don't believe it even if ex-teamates say it.

Have you even listened to the podcast ? That is not what Weise is saying, he is pretty much siding with Subban and it is consistent with what Price, Weise, Markov, Plekanec, etc said before.

 

[Mrb1p]

No surprises...

MB/MT created the toxic environment they then scapegoated first PK, then Patches with.

Was evident back then, further confirmed now.

The weird thing is that some fans STILL don't seem able or capable of seeing MB for what he is... & Prefer to stay attached to the BS narratives & excuses he proliferated than to admit they got duped & move on.

What could've been... Building around a core with a Hart worthy goalie & a Norris worthy dman, both in their prime, both willing to put in the work to be winners... Such a damn shame.

Insane how they alienated two of the greatest players in the franchise history.

Shades of Roy and Chelios ?

 

[Miller Time]

Insane how they alienated two of the greatest players in the franchise history.

Shades of Roy and Chelios ?

Indeed.

And while the PK "too brand focused" narrative is not totally without merit, as he showed when he got to Nashville, or when he was an excellent teammate on the Olympic team despite what must've been huge internal frustration at not getting more of a shot to play despite being clearly better than at least 2-3 other dmen, he was both a winner and a high character teammate.

Both Chelios (early career) & Roy had many more character flaws that contributed to their untimely departures... PK was far more a victim of the dubious character of his coach & GM.

 

[donghabs98]

Insane how they alienated two of the greatest players in the franchise history.

Shades of Roy and Chelios ?

Its the issue with the Habs franchise since the Pollock days and Geoff Molson embodies this problem which is the Habs are too focused on their image and brand that they will jet any player that challenges it. While it is important to maintain a standard and image of a team, it shouldn't take precedent to building a team. A good organizational culture is one where players are able to grow and one where big personalities are contained. Clearly we don't have that because anything a player is an issue, they are traded or thrown under the bus in short order (Think of PK, Cammalleri, Roy, Chelios and Carbo).

Ironically, the only recent period where this "brand image over everything" mindset wasn't a big problem was during the George Gillett days. He was one owner who understood the culture and history but wasn't consumed by the mystic of it.

 

[habsfan92]

Unfortunately the Captain choice was between two guys that should never be captain. Both were just really good supporting players. Opposite personalities too.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I don't disagree with most of the things said here, there is some extrapolation and it's interresting to read. What bothers me is the guy who is doing the podcast. He was traded to the Hawks and was a flop there, then was traded here and was a flop again. He must have bitterness, I could understand but can he explain what went wrong in his game? He had evrerything in the mold of a player : size, speed, age and some hands. Did he prepared seriously? Did he have some off-ice problems?

He can padcast all he want but I would pay more attention of a ex player like let's say Gionta or Plekanec.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't disagree with most of the things said here, there is some extrapolation and it's interresting to read. What bothers me is the guy who is doing the podcast. He was traded to the Hawks and was a flop there, then was traded here and was a flop again. He must have bitterness, I could understand but can he explain what went wrong in his game? He had evrerything in the mold of a player : size, speed, age and some hands. Did he prepared seriously? Did he have some off-ice problems?

He can padcast all he want but I would pay more attention of a ex player like let's say Gionta or Plekanec.

Or he just wasn't good enough and was washed up ? He just lost a step, he used to be a great skater and now he's not. Its not like he was uber talented either.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Or he just wasn't good enough and was washed up ? He just lost a step, he used to be a great skater and now he's not. Its not like he was uber talented either.

Sure he wasn't loaded with full talent. He lost his speed in Chicago when he was 26 y? Was he injured?

 

[Mrb1p]

Sure he wasn't loaded with full talent. He lost his speed in Chicago when he was 26 y? Was he injured?

He didn't and he wasn't, he's just a fringe player.

 

[MasterD]

I don't disagree with most of the things said here, there is some extrapolation and it's interresting to read. What bothers me is the guy who is doing the podcast. He was traded to the Hawks and was a flop there, then was traded here and was a flop again. He must have bitterness, I could understand but can he explain what went wrong in his game? He had evrerything in the mold of a player : size, speed, age and some hands. Did he prepared seriously? Did he have some off-ice problems?

He can padcast all he want but I would pay more attention of a ex player like let's say Gionta or Plekanec.

Weise went though it all on a podcast - how he got to Chicago late because of visa issues, when he got there he didnt play much, hadn't skated in something like 2 weeks and got thrown in a game, played bad, got in his head...

Bowman told him he was sorry for his things turned out for him over there because of how Hitchcock treated/used him. Says it all.

Then he signed in Philadelphia and wasn't a great fit.


It's in there, I believe it's towards the end. But the whole episode is GREAT content.

Edit start around 59:00

 

[1909]

Indeed.

And while the PK "too brand focused" narrative is not totally without merit, as he showed when he got to Nashville, or when he was an excellent teammate on the Olympic team despite what must've been huge internal frustration at not getting more of a shot to play despite being clearly better than at least 2-3 other dmen, he was both a winner and a high character teammate.

Both Chelios (early career) & Roy had many more character flaws that contributed to their untimely departures... PK was far more a victim of the dubious character of his coach & GM.

If you want to believe yourself, it's up to you.

 

[Garry Valk]

Unfortunately the Captain choice was between two guys that should never be captain. Both were just really good supporting players. Opposite personalities too.

I have never heard of a recent Norris winner referred to as a supporting player. That’s ridiculous.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

He didn't and he wasn't, he's just a fringe player.

That explains why Quenneville was angry when Danault left to Mtl. That bad trade of Hawks made him lose his job some years later. And for sure Danault would never be a #1 C but you could agree he would fit well after Kane and Toews.

 

[1909]

I will always remember the last media scrum PK gave in the Habs locker room.

'I never question myself" was one of his answers....

Then, on his way out of the dressing room, he stopped by Patches, who was with other media, interrupted him, and gave him some kind of a hug. Patches was looking puzzled and embarrassed.

 

[Mrb1p]

I will always remember the last media scrum PK gave in the Habs locker room.

'I never question myself" was one of his answers....

Then, on his way out of the dressing room, he stopped by Patches, who was with other media, interrupted him, and gave him some kind of a hug. Patches was looking puzzled and embarrassed.

Puzzled, lil patch, puzzled.

 

[Mrb1p]

PKs donation as a pred

Pks donation as a hab