Habs Tonight on PK vs Max debate

[dinodebino]

All I know is that Madame Elise Béliveau loved PK. And I trust Ms. Elise's judgment of character over any of that time's Habs' brass, including Geoff's.

People say that Molson might have taken PK's fund launch the wrong way. Need to remember that Jean Béliveau did the same for kids, even though Hartland Molson's Canadiens, at the time, already had its own fund. Yet, Hartland stayed true to Jean, even bringing him into the company's fold, as a vp.
If that's the reason why PK was ostracized, it was petty. Hartland would have bitchslapped Geoff in his sleep.

 

[bobholly39]

Years later and I still hate this - and I would take PK back on the Habs anyday (yes, despite his apparent decline).

Soul and heart player, who always played as hard as anyone else, and gave so much to the community - and was entertaining as hell.

I like Weber and I've liked him from the start, never held this trade against him, but it still shouldn't have happened.

I agree with others - having teammates vote between 2 close choices is a sure way to split the room in 2. Was stupid.

 

[Andy]

The team had bad leadership from management and the coaching staff, and it trickled down to the players.

Neither Subban, nor Pacioretty should have captained the club. They were good leaders, but not good enough to be the captain.

Also, it's never a good look for your club when your coach and GM continuously bash one of your teams leaders (Subban). It just undermines them in front of their teammates and delegitimizes their leadership.

It probably wasn't their intention, but MT and MB's attitude created a rift between Subban and Pacioretty that resulted in two camps within the team.

It was a very toxic period.

 

[Perrah]

Price easily would have been captain if the failed Luongo experiment never happened. Who knows what would have been if that had been the case.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

You're kidding, right?

FYI, St-Hubert are the ones who asked Gainey and Habs players to participate in Ads for charity, including Celine Dion. All his money went to charity. The people from St-Hubert even mention that no stars have ever refused their invitation:

Pub St-Hubert: Pour une bonne cause!

Whereas Bergevin uses his ads to make childish digs and to arrogantly praise himself (erroneously, I might add):

Bergevin lance une pointe à P.K. Subban dans une publicité pour Weber - Balle Courbe

Bergevin has made publicities for McD (where he auto-proclaims himself as a legend) Ford, Weber and maybe others i've forgot. It's not a one-off for charity here. Bergevin is selling himself and no GM in Montreal has ever done that. So yeah, PK's stardom might've ticked off superstar GM Bergevin. To think it's not a possibility is completely ignoring the man's behavior and habits.

It's two completely different stories and a very bad comparison.

Find me an article that says Bergevin does this for charity.

You guys are too funny. On one hand, it's encouraged for Subban to have personality and to monetize it (which I agree with) but it's fair to cast aspersions against Bergevin for potentially doing the same? Like, really, we're going to start taking seriously scripted ads with bad puns? It's really hard to understate for me how ridiculous you guys all come across. We're approaching the level this board was at when we'd have threads wondering the only reason people liked Bergevin was because he was handsome and gave off alpha energy which was duping everyone.

Like, I'm not saying that it's impossible that Bergevin was 'jealous' of Subban, what the arguments brought forward are so hopelessly biased and stupid. I can't take it seriously.

And good on Gainey for the St-Hub ad - even if he'd done it for money, I wouldn't have given a shit - and I don't think doing something for charity doesn't mean you don't care about the spotlight (euh, Subban? Celine Dion?). Also, not everyone publicizes their charity. Maybe Bergevin does give or maybe he doesn't. I have no idea - neither do you (besides, not publicizing it would actually go against the idea of wanting to be a superstar so that there are no articles about it is utterly meaningless). My entire point is that you guys negativity regarding Bergevin has become personal for reasons I'm not sure I get it. It's making you guys cast aspersions that are based on flimsy foundations at best. Like, I think the guy should be blasted into the sun because he sucks at his job, but I'm not going to pretend I have any sort of idea about who he is as a person and whether he wants to be a superstar and was jealous of Subban. Jesus Christ. If I had to venture a guess, I think he was just a green traditionalist and that affected how he treated new-age guy like Subban.

 

[Andy]

You guys are too funny. On one hand, it's encouraged for Subban to have personality and to monetize it (which I agree with) but it's fair to cast aspersions against Bergevin for potentially doing the same?

I think you've completely misinterpreted the argument.

What people are saying is that it's hypocritical for MB to have regarding Subban's monetization of his personality as a negative while he (MB) has been doing the same.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I think you've completely misinterpreted the argument.

What people are saying is that it's hypocritical for MB to have regarding Subban's monetization of his personality as a negative while he (MB) has been doing the same.

Did he ever say that? It's a genuine question. I wouldn't be surprised that the organization itself disliked that Subban was dissociating himself from the franchise but I don't see why this means anything about Bergevin personally. When he's giving interviews, he's talking in his official capacity as the Habs GM. Making aspersions about who he is as a person based on how he dresses or bad puns in scripted ads is so stupid I'm not even sure where to begin.

 

[BLONG7]

Bergevin/Therrien duo were convinced they were the stars of the team......and boy is that sad. You can absolutely see how both guys would want Subban gone....his popularity was too much for them.
Bergevin showing himself off in ads and commercials is one of the most bizzarre things a hab GM could have ever done.
As mentioned Gainey did this, with good cause and monies went to chairty.
Bergevin absolutely loves himself, and why we will never know, his results are worse than Reggie Houle's years...
Way too much time has passed where this guy continues to show up, collect his pay, and does nothing to move the needle forward. One good offseason in 9 years, and he wants us to forget about the first 8 years?

 

[Andy]

Did he ever say that? It's a genuine question.

I don't know, when everyone says Subban was traded because he was selfish, and put himself first, what else is it supposed to mean? Unless you think Subban was being shopped for other reasons.

 

[DAChampion]

The team had bad leadership from management and the coaching staff, and it trickled down to the players.

Neither Subban, nor Pacioretty should have captained the club. They were good leaders, but not good enough to be the captain.

Also, it's never a good look for your club when your coach and GM continuously bash one of your teams leaders (Subban). It just undermines them in front of their teammates and delegitimizes their leadership.

It probably wasn't their intention, but MT and MB's attitude created a rift between Subban and Pacioretty that resulted in two camps within the team.

It was a very toxic period.

I doubt that Pacioretty actually had much of a problem with Subban.

 

[417]

Way too much drama surrounding PK and Habs then and still today.

There were guilty parties on both sides.

The Montreal Canadiens organization clearly wasn't comfortable with PK's star shining brighter than their own brand and PK , at times defiantly, did as much as much as possible to place himself and his brand, separate from the team.

I don't think PK was doing it maliciously, but that kind of thing is just so rare in the NHL, nevermind a conservative organization like the Habs.

Both sides should have come together, instead the opposite happened.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I don't know, when everyone says Subban was traded because he was selfish, and put himself first, what else is it supposed to mean? Unless you think Subban was being shopped for other reasons.

Yeah, sure, I can believe that. I just took umbrage with people starting to claim this was evidence about Bergevin's jealousy or his desire to be a superstar. I think it's bad form to let Bergevin's poor record lead us down to making personal insults. Like, selfish and put himself first can mean a ton of things. It could have been beef with other players, capacity to follow on-ice instructions, etc. I'd be surprised if it was strictly about the charity and nothing else.

 

[GigaMike]

Yeah, sure, I can believe that. I just took umbrage with people starting to claim this was evidence about Bergevin's jealousy or his desire to be a superstar. I think it's bad form to let Bergevin's poor record lead us down to making personal insults. Like, selfish and put himself first can mean a ton of things. It could have been beef with other players, capacity to follow on-ice instructions, etc. I'd be surprised if it was strictly about the charity and nothing else.

By the way, i didn't say he was jealous. I didn't even criticize him for doing the ads. I only respond to your comment saying he is just a good soldier who doesn't want to be in the spotlight by pointing the fact that yes, he does more ads or talkshow then any member of the habs or even past members.

And let's be honest, if it was Subban who did all of those, he would be criticized for wanting attention

 

[Beaker]

Bergevin should’ve given him that 4.5m long term deal but he pushed and pushed for a bridge deal. He dismantled a team with some solid young players.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

When you think about it, it's funny that for his persona, Subban was just in the wrong sport. In football or basketball, nobody would raise an eyebrow about him. Even baseball, a sport with way too much unwritten rules (just think about Tatis Jr), he would've fit easily. I don't know why but in hockey, it's frown upon to show personality or capitalize on it

yeah i can't quite figure it out, what makes NHL culture different from MLB, NBA and NFL

sigh as a huge Subban fan (still got him in my avy) these threads just get me bitter all over again at the org. we had a special player here and we blew it

 

[HotPie]

yeah i can't quite figure it out, what makes NHL culture different from MLB, NBA and NFL

sigh as a huge Subban fan (still got him in my avy) these threads just get me bitter all over again at the org. we had a special player here and we blew it

Yep, the trade was the final straw for me about the direction of the franchise. I thought it was a mistake at the time, and I still think it was a mistake today, despite his "regression".

I never understood how management can scapegoat and do everything in their power to get rid of a guy who's in his prime, Norris winner, loved by the community, and bleeds the "bleu blanc rouge". How they treated Subban and later Markov is when I mentally peaced out from this franchise.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Bergevin and/or Therrien should have been fired that day.

To the Sun.

 

[MasterD]

Bergevin and/or Therrien should have been fired that day.

To the Sun.

The day Therrien was re-hired, we all knew Bergevin was up to no good. I gave him a pass the first 2-3 years, but then.. GTFO

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

To be fair,neither should have been a captain.

 

[Miller Time]

The fashion industry could sink for all I care but this is such a silly comment. This is when this board veers into serious toxicity regarding Bergevin.

the only thing toxic is the way this individual has run the franchise, and that's he's been allowed to do so this long.

nothing toxic about pointing out that the guy prioritizes fashion (and frankly, i couldn't care less... if anything, i prefer a GM that shows some personality rather than the typical corporate conservative attire of 99% of GMs), you appear to have missed the point entirely.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Yep, the trade was the final straw for me about the direction of the franchise. I thought it was a mistake at the time, and I still think it was a mistake today, despite his "regression".

I never understood how management can scapegoat and do everything in their power to get rid of a guy who's in his prime, Norris winner, loved by the community, and bleeds the "bleu blanc rouge". How they treated Subban and later Markov is when I mentally peaced out from this franchise.

nice post man. i feel the same. and yet here we are, still checking the forums from time to time. battered fan syndrome

 

[MasterD]

Years later and I still hate this - and I would take PK back on the Habs anyday (yes, despite his apparent decline).

Soul and heart player, who always played as hard as anyone else, and gave so much to the community - and was entertaining as hell.

I like Weber and I've liked him from the start, never held this trade against him, but it still shouldn't have happened.

I agree with others - having teammates vote between 2 close choices is a sure way to split the room in 2. Was stupid.

I would 100% trade Weber for Subban right now. Add a 3rd rd pick if you have to.