Post-Game Talk: Habs lose 3-1 to Bolts

[Kriss E]

Meh, I’ve just given up any hope at this point.

I like Mete and think he’s a decent defenseman but he’s not a first pairing guy. Regardless of his style and ability to play with Weber, a #2 defenceman needs to bring a lot more offense.

Hes a very good 3rd pairing D.

 

[NotProkofievian]

If that's the way it's going to be, send KK down.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If that's the way it's going to be, send KK down.

It's going to take new management for them to make a decision like that. This current management is all over the middle of the pack strategy where they are trying to make the playoffs so we can lose in the 1st round but they still keep their jobs. Who plays 3C if Kotkaniemi is in Laval? That's what they are thinking. They are not really thinking about Kotkaniemi playing 1st line in the AHL to work on his offensive game.... that's far from their minds.

They messed up IMO. There was opportunity to stay near the bottom for a few seasons but they consider that an embarrassment and were all over the pride/rebound year last year. What's the energy for this year? Playoffs in the one of the toughest divisions in the NHL?

I'm getting annoyed with this middle of the pack strategy. It's very dumb!

 

[DangerDave]

If that's the way it's going to be, send KK down.

And make sure CJ is gone before you call him back up. KKs interview last night made it pretty clear that those two don't see eye to eye.

 

[NotProkofievian]

It's going to take new management for them to make a decision like that. This current management is all over the middle of the pack strategy where they are trying to make the playoffs so we can lose in the 1st round but they still keep their jobs. Who plays 3C if Kotkaniemi is in Laval? That's what they are thinking. They are not really thinking about Kotkaniemi playing 1st line in the AHL to work on his offensive game.... that's far from their minds.

Nate ''the great'' Thompson, and then call someone up from Laval. If you're going to single out your 19 year old 3rd overall pick every time he's responsible for a GA, give him 0 PP time, and limited EV minutes, he might as well be playing 20+ minutes in Laval.

They messed up IMO. There was opportunity to stay near the bottom for a few seasons but they consider that an embarrassment and were all over the pride/rebound year last year. What's the energy for this year? Playoffs in the one of the toughest divisions in the NHL?

I'm getting annoyed with this middle of the pack strategy. It's very dumb!

Don't think this is a middle of the pack team. Carey Price has played 5 games, and he has yet to have a game with fewer than 3GA. He is getting lit up. This enthusiastic bunch will come out of the gate 100% always, and that's going to get us points here and there. But this is a really f***ing bad team.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nate ''the great'' Thompson, and then call someone up from Laval. If you're going to single out your 19 year old 3rd overall pick every time he's responsible for a GA, give him 0 PP time, and limited EV minutes, he might as well be playing 20+ minutes in Laval.

Don't think this is a middle of the pack team. Carey Price has played 5 games, and he has yet to have a game with fewer than 3GA. He is getting lit up. This enthusiastic bunch will come out of the gate 100% always, and that's going to get us points here and there. But this is a really ****ing bad team.

Calling out Kotkaniemi when we were premature on inserting him in the NHL is on management. I hope this turns out well but it was stupid asset management with high risk of backfiring IMO. The only way he made our roster last year is cause he won the job over Pleky, DLR, and Peca. I don't think we are destroying his development but it would of not been my development plan! Let him dominate a development league before you play him in the NHL... bunch of premature dummies!

I do think we fall in the middle 10 in the NHL again this season. Hope I am wrong and we fall bottom 10 so we get the best shot at a lottery win but we are too legit to tank and not good enough to be a contender. It's clear to me

Habs are going to come to grips with the "trip and fall to the bottom reality" vs having insight on how to properly accelerate a re-build and I hope it's not too late when they come to reality

 

[LaP]

Now that's a big sample size.

Here's some big enough sample size since MB decided to build his own team kiriktr.

- Since MB acquired Shaw and Weber : Montréal is 16th in the league (252 games played)
- Since he decided top play hardball with Markov and Radulov and he acquired Drouin : Montréal is 22nd in the league (170 games played)
- Since he acquired Domi : Montreal is 14th in the league (88 games played)

That's the epitome of a bubble team.

 

[Milhouse40]

Molson needs to make a decision ....because we know the coward Bergevin will not....he has stayed in the middle for 8 years......never going all in trading 1st round picks and prospects to go for it....and never tearing it down and getting top 5 picks...it is clear now that they need to clean house ....Bergevin and Julien need to go and hand over the reins to Bouchard and Ducharme and start a proper rebuild or retool with your young core.

I agree with some of your post…...except the last part.

What Bouchard did to earn to take the reign of this club?
So far he's coaching in the AHL and the results are not there.

What Ducharme did?
He's in charge of the special units and it sucks.

I'm all for a new generation of management but i'm not ready to do that mistakes again. Both have not earned their stripes to move any higher to where they are right now.
We need competence and experience for once and some people who actually earned their way up and have experience for the job. These two have 0 experience and it'S the same recipe for a disaster that we've used for more than 2 decades now.

 

[NotProkofievian]

And make sure CJ is gone before you call him back up. KKs interview last night made it pretty clear that those two don't see eye to eye.

In a question about Weber and Mete, who were also on the ice for both even strength goals against, he again singles out ''Kotkaniemi's line'' and says that we need to ''spread the blame around.'' Yeah, that's why Drouin and Armia both played 19 minutes and KK moved down to 4th line wing. The blame is really being spread around there Clod.

If that's the way it's going to be, send him the f*** down already. Make a f***ing choice. You either play him in all sorts of situations with big minutes and you live with his mistakes, or you put him in a league where he can do that. There is nothing magic about walking on egg-shells for 10-12 minutes per night that will turn Kotkaniemi into the 1C of the future.

 

[Lshap]

You keep bringing up Boston like they're playing over their heads. They aren't. All those teams you listed have multiple players with far more talent than ANYONE on the Montreal roster. I would argue that most teams in the east have at least one elite level guy (save for the bottom feeders... maybe that's where we belong?).

The idea that Boston will continue to be a powerhouse is in your imagination. Let's watch the season unfold. Bergeron and Marchand are 34 and 31. Bergeron is aging and has annual injury issues. Halak has been a godsend for them but is chronically inconsistent. Chara is freakin 42. And you think Montreal's career seasons were unsustainable?? The Bruins had a full plate of career-best seasons by players who are a decade older than our guys!

Yes, Pastrnak is the real deal and they should make the playoffs, but they're not sniffing last season's success.

As for the EC, yeah, of course those other teams have more talent. Their players have career-best seasons that translate to 80, 90, or 100 points. Meanwhile, we get nervous when one of our guys hits 70 pts. If Domi's relatively minor spike was a fluke, then the much bigger spikes for Marner, Tavares, Rielly, Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, etc. are just as much flukes.

Our best forwards are Drouin (who is playing well), Domi and Gallagher. Love Domi and Gallagher but you cannot compare them to Pastranak, Marchand, Huberdeau, Barkov, Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, Marner, Matthews, Eichel, Crosby, Ovechkin, Panarin, Giroux, etc..... These are guys simply on another level, maybe even 2 tiers above our guys. And shockingly, these guys ALWAYS give Montreal a ton of trouble when we play them.

It's very hard to compete when your best player is a goalie, your best forwards aren't elite, and you can't contain other teams' top lines because your defense is a mess and your best dman is Petry (it should be Weber, but I have no clue what's up with him this year).

Why? We are constrained to the same small group of coaches. We can't get anyone new, it's just rehashing the same group of guys that didn't work out here in the past. Not only that, but it's the same group of coaches from the same era, all using the same tactics and with the same mentality. Who's next? I can guarantee you at some point Alain Vigneault will coach this team again.

Don't have to convince me. I've been on the same train for ages. I'm just getting tired of complaining about it...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Here's some big enough sample size since MB decided to build his own team kiriktr.

- Since MB acquired Shaw and Weber : Montréal is 16th in the league (252 games played)
- Since he decided top play hardball with Markov and Radulov and he acquired Drouin : Montréal is 22nd in the league (170 games played)
- Since he acquired Domi : Montreal is 14th in the league (88 games played)

That's the epitome of a bubble team.

Sell some assets (Weber, Tatar, Byron) and help our probability of a accelerated rebuild. However, lets face it, I don't hate Bergevin but he will not make this move. So at this stage, the best circumstance we can hope for is a off year (maybe a few injuries) and Bergevin loses his job before the new year. The new guy would be more open to going all in on the youth and we also make Ducharme our coach.

If we do nothing, we are clearly in the middle 10 pack range for a few years yet. Why not go to the bottom for 2 years while we get much better picks and we also get to play the kids with less pressure to win and they can play their games where they are not afraid to makes mistakes on the job.

Our fan base won't disappear or not show up to games and I think we might enjoy the youth movement more than what we see today

 

[Habs Halifax]

The idea that Boston will continue to be a powerhouse is in your imagination. Let's watch the season unfold. Bergeron and Marchand are 34 and 31. Bergeron is aging and has annual injury issues. Halak has been a godsend for them but is chronically inconsistent. Chara is freakin 42. And you think Montreal's career seasons were unsustainable?? The Bruins had a full plate of career-best seasons by players who are a decade older than our guys!

Yes, Pastrnak is the real deal and they should make the playoffs, but they're not sniffing last season's success.

As for the EC, yeah, of course those other teams have more talent. Their players have career-best seasons that translate to 80, 90, or 100 points. Meanwhile, we get nervous when one of our guys hits 70 pts. If Domi's relatively minor spike was a fluke, then the much bigger spikes for Marner, Tavares, Rielly, Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, etc. are just as much flukes.



Don't have to convince me. I've been on the same train for ages. I'm just getting tired of complaining about it...

Chara retires and I think they take a step back. Next key piece is Bergeron.

 

[26Mats]

Here's some big enough sample size since MB decided to build his own team kiriktr.

- Since MB acquired Shaw and Weber : Montréal is 16th in the league (252 games played)
- Since he decided top play hardball with Markov and Radulov and he acquired Drouin : Montréal is 22nd in the league (170 games played)
- Since he acquired Domi : Montreal is 14th in the league (88 games played)

That's the epitome of a bubble team.

In polls at the starting of the year, I had us just missing the playoffs again.

I thought we could get in if the kids made good steps and the vets didn't decline.

Weber's seeming decline is a big blow (or blessing, depending on how you look at it). We're going to have a hard time making the playoffs with this version of Shea Weber.

 

[HelloBellyvo]

I agree with some of your post…...except the last part.

What Bouchard did to earn to take the reign of this club?
So far he's coaching in the AHL and the results are not there.

What Ducharme did?
He's in charge of the special units and it sucks.

I'm all for a new generation of management but i'm not ready to do that mistakes again. Both have not earned their stripes to move any higher to where they are right now.
We need competence and experience for once and some people who actually earned their way up and have experience for the job. These two have 0 experience and it'S the same recipe for a disaster that we've used for more than 2 decades now.

I kinda agree with you though I have little to no knowledge of the workings of the "inner sanctum" that is coaching and management.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

It's going to take new management for them to make a decision like that. This current management is all over the middle of the pack strategy where they are trying to make the playoffs so we can lose in the 1st round but they still keep their jobs. Who plays 3C if Kotkaniemi is in Laval? That's what they are thinking. They are not really thinking about Kotkaniemi playing 1st line in the AHL to work on his offensive game.... that's far from their minds.

They messed up IMO. There was opportunity to stay near the bottom for a few seasons but they consider that an embarrassment and were all over the pride/rebound year last year. What's the energy for this year? Playoffs in the one of the toughest divisions in the NHL?

I'm getting annoyed with this middle of the pack strategy. It's very dumb!

Weal can play 3rd C.

Call up Belzile, Varone & Ouellet. Send Suzuki & KK down.

Lehkonen --- Domi --- Drouin
Tatar --- Danault --- Gallagher
Byron --- Weal --- Armia
Cousins --- Thompson --- Belzile
Varone


Reilly --- Weber
Kulak --- Petry
Chiarot --- Folin
Ouellet

Might as well send down Mete too.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

This 'unsustainable career year' warning applies more to Boston, Toronto, Florida (and many more teams) than it does to Montreal.

lol this again. Why do you keep bringing Toronto and the SC finalists in this argument ? Tomas Tatar and Mitch Marner are at very different stages of their careers.

Boston had career year guys and went to cup finals. We had 5+ guys who could very well have had the definite career years (of their entire careers) yet still missed the playoffs entirely. Dont you see reasons to be concerned without having to deflect the argument to other teams like MB cheerleaders always do ?

 

[Lshap]

lol this again. Why do you keep bringing Toronto and the SC finalists in this argument ? Tomas Tatar and Mitch Marner are at very different stages of their careers.

Boston had career year guys and went to cup finals. We had 5+ guys who could very well have had the definite career years (of their entire careers) yet still missed the playoffs entirely. Dont you see reasons to be concerned without having to deflect the argument to other teams like MB cheerleaders always do ?

What the hell are you talking about? Read the conversation and get back to me. Or don't bother.

 

[waffledave]

The idea that Boston will continue to be a powerhouse is in your imagination. Let's watch the season unfold. Bergeron and Marchand are 34 and 31. Bergeron is aging and has annual injury issues. Halak has been a godsend for them but is chronically inconsistent. Chara is freakin 42. And you think Montreal's career seasons were unsustainable?? The Bruins had a full plate of career-best seasons by players who are a decade older than our guys!

Yes, Pastrnak is the real deal and they should make the playoffs, but they're not sniffing last season's success.

As for the EC, yeah, of course those other teams have more talent. Their players have career-best seasons that translate to 80, 90, or 100 points. Meanwhile, we get nervous when one of our guys hits 70 pts. If Domi's relatively minor spike was a fluke, then the much bigger spikes for Marner, Tavares, Rielly, Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, etc. are just as much flukes.

Yes, Bergeron, Marchand and Chara are older. Marchand is getting better with age, I mean old man Marchand has more goals and points than anyone on our roster. But I get what you're saying, they are important players for Boston and the won't be around forever.

The difference is that they have the talent to replace them down the line. They have solid vets but an even more solid group of core young guys who will step in and lead the team moving forward. Top of the list is Pastrnak, who is only 23 years old.

Yes their top guys had career seasons. But their young guys did not, and they are steadily getting better as you'd expect. That's Boston's new core that will replace the aging guys.

Compare that to Montreal... It is our youth having the career years, not just our vets. We don't have a Pastrnak, or a McAvoy, or a Carlo, or a Krug. Their version of Weal in the top 6 is Jake DeBrusk. We are banking on another 70+ pt performance from Domi, and a 30 goal season from Gallagher, which is all you need to know. They would like to see that kind of production from Heinen and DeBrusk eventually but they don't need it to happen right away.

The spikes in production you see from those top guys on other teams is due to building a roster with several elite level talents. Of course Tavares playing with Marner and Matthews is going to result in huge numbers. Ditto with Boston and Pastrnak's impact. You are talking about some of the most talented players in the world.

 

[Rapala]

The idea that Boston will continue to be a powerhouse

I think you may be underestimating their depth somewhat. They will certainly remain ahead of our curve if they continue to draft and develop players at a reasonable rate. While Chara, Bergeron, Marchand, and Krejci all start winding down there is value there to move for the future. Even without Chara I'd take their D over ours in a heartbeat AINEC.

 

[Habit11]

Bottom 5 in the league in both GA/G and PK% to start the year and the coach calls out KK after the game? Seems like the numbers indicate that everyone has been lost defensively for two weeks now.

 

[The Great Weal]

Weber looks done this year. Pretty terrible start.

 

[Tighthead]

Weber looks done this year. Pretty terrible start.

So much for the "slowing down isn't a concern because he was never fast" argument I have seen 1000 times on here.

 

[Lshap]

Yes, Bergeron, Marchand and Chara are older. Marchand is getting better with age, I mean old man Marchand has more goals and points than anyone on our roster. But I get what you're saying, they are important players for Boston and the won't be around forever.

The difference is that they have the talent to replace them down the line. They have solid vets but an even more solid group of core young guys who will step in and lead the team moving forward. Top of the list is Pastrnak, who is only 23 years old.

Yes their top guys had career seasons. But their young guys did not, and they are steadily getting better as you'd expect. That's Boston's new core that will replace the aging guys.

Compare that to Montreal... It is our youth having the career years, not just our vets. We don't have a Pastrnak, or a McAvoy, or a Carlo, or a Krug. Their version of Weal in the top 6 is Jake DeBrusk. We are banking on another 70+ pt performance from Domi, and a 30 goal season from Gallagher, which is all you need to know. They would like to see that kind of production from Heinen and DeBrusk eventually but they don't need it to happen right away.

The spikes in production you see from those top guys on other teams is due to building a roster with several elite level talents. Of course Tavares playing with Marner and Matthews is going to result in huge numbers. Ditto with Boston and Pastrnak's impact. You are talking about some of the most talented players in the world.

If Tavares had his best season -- by far -- because he switched teams and linemates, what do you think Domi did? Domi got 28 goals, Tavares got 47. That substantial gap is a good reflection of the different talent levels. Gallagher is a legit 30-goal scorer -- that's no fluke.

Looking ahead, there's no way to know which group of prospects will be better. Poehling, Caufield, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi could end up being better than anyone in Boston's group of kids. Or not -- no way to tell. The Bruins' past success was thanks to Bergeron, Chara and Marchand. I'm not anointing their upcoming youth with anything until they accomplish something. Same with our youth, by the way.

 

[LaP]

Chara retires and I think they take a step back. Next key piece is Bergeron.

I don't know. McAvoyu, Carlo and Krug remains an okay top 3. I think when PB and Marchand will start to slow down it will hurt more. PB is 34 and Marchand 31 they are definitely getting older.

 

[Lshap]

I think you may be underestimating their depth somewhat. They will certainly remain ahead of our curve if they continue to draft and develop players at a reasonable rate. While Chara, Bergeron, Marchand, and Krejci all start winding down there is value there to move for the future. Even without Chara I'd take their D over ours in a heartbeat AINEC.

Agreed about their D, although that's not saying much.