Habs draft Logan Mailloux - Part 3 (MOD post#1)

[haseoke39]

Teenagers have a tendency to identify their recent conquest to their friends, either via name (if the other know her) or via social profiles. I do not believe this was done with a malicious intent, unless you want to believe a very big proportion of teenagers/young adults are malevolent. To be clear, it's also not something that should be done, but calling it malicious is just not understanding how people of those age work. It's more an ego thing than a malicious thing.

To be clear, I do agree the picture was not something to do morally and legally. It was defamation and offensive photography.

It is absolutely malicious. You already hid the fact that you took photos of her -- that's active deception right the f*** there.

There's a difference between locker room talk (which is not tangible, which can't be published and spread, which can't even be verified) and taking a secret photograph of it that you then tag with her social media. She is absolutely certain to be humiliated, and it is absolutely certain that you are doing this against her wishes.

I was getting my first f***s in after social media came around, too -- I was even on the high school hockey team -- and this was not remotely, remotely like anything I or anyone I know did. We told tales, but tales can't be duplicated, copied, published, verified.

I'm frankly disturbed that so many people think this is eh, whatever, boys being boys. Like, seriously, this is a bad sign.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Ab-so-f***ing-lutely.

Edit: My mistake, you said the opposite.

 

[haseoke39]

In that imaginary scenario, why you are fine with drafting McDavid, but not Mailloux ?

I'm not. You're reading this opposite implication I meant to convey.

 

[Banjo Cat]

In that imaginary scenario, why you are fine with drafting McDavid, but not Mailloux ?

He said he would absolutely pass.

 

[ryan callahan]

In that imaginary scenario, why you are fine with drafting McDavid, but not Mailloux ?

He meant that he'd absolutely pass on McDavid, which is absolute bs considering owner would fire him 2 seconds after doing the move.

 

[Gamimenos]

Not really considering that the picture doesn't show anything that makes them identifiable ; Hairs, bra strap and well you know ...a portion of the kid

My point is everyone is willing to get the pitchforks out at the organization for taking the "sex offender". If we want to open this door, there's more that can be said. In some US states even, an 18 year old going down on a 17 year old is also a crime. But no one is saying there should be people outside the lady's work trying to get her fired from her job, NOR SHOULD THEY.

This entire thing is very one sided and blown out of proportion.

 

[Whitesnake]

I would ask my question again, to people who did not want the Habs to draft him.

If McDavid did something similar and you had the chance to draft him, would you pass on him ?

@Andy why would the league do that ? It happened before ?

Logan was eligible to be drafted, Habs are high on him, they took him.

Great. So what's the line for you? If the guy isn't in prison...you draft him? What's YOUR limitations? And if you have some, respect people who have other limitations.

 

[Treb]

It is absolutely malicious. You already hid the fact that you took photos of her -- that's active deception right the f*** there.

There's a difference between locker room talk (which is not tangible, which can't be published and spread, which can't even be verified) and taking a secret photograph of it that you then tag with her social media. She is absolutely certain to be humiliated, and it is absolutely certain that you are doing this against her wishes.

I was getting my first f***s in after social media came around, too -- I was even on the high school hockey team -- and this was not remotely, remotely like anything I or anyone I know did. We told tales, but tales can't be duplicated, copied, published, verified.

I'm frankly disturbed that so many people think this is eh, whatever, boys being boys. Like, seriously, this is a bad sign.

I explicitly said it's bad. It's just not as malicious as you make it to be.

The intent was to brag to his teammates, not destroy her reputation.

Was it dumb? Yes.
Was it acceptable? No.
Does he have to atone? Yes.
Was it malicious? No.
Would I have drafted him? No.

 

[Banjo Cat]

I'm frankly disturbed that so many people think this is eh, whatever, boys being boys. Like, seriously, this is a bad sign.

I think most of us do not think that at all. It is a horrible thing to do to someone. It's not boys being boys. I also do not think he intended it to be malicious to her. He was bragging about her to his friends. Probably thought nothing would come of it. It's incredibly stupid. That does not mean I do not think it is still a horrible thing, however. I think it's pretty bad when people do this without pics being involved.

I think what most of us are saying is that given the relative severity and his age it should not affect whether he is drafted. They have determined that he did something unacceptable, but probably also determine that it doesn't color who he will be as a whole because he was a teenager.

I think most of us agree that it should not derail his entire career. From what I've seen most posters have some common ground on this. So, according to some he maybe should have been drafted next year. So, I think the crux of the argument among the majority of us really boils to us disagreeing on how long his atonement should be.

 

[NicRattlehead]

This is 100% sexual abuse.

Secret cameras are disgusting. That's what this was.

Public shaming is worse. He hid the fact that he'd taken this and then had the psychopathic urge to TAG her social media on it, against her wishes, for the purpose of humiliating her.

This is sick stuff, not even remotely what your little Johnny and Mary do when they play show-me-yours-and-I'll-show-you-mine on snapchat. This is not even remotely "whoops I didn't think about it" -- if you didn't think about it, you'd tell her to f***ing smile when you pulled out the camera, shithead. If you didn't think about it, you wouldn't f***ing hide this from her until the moment you'd tagged her social media.

People commit suicide over this kind of shit. Yes, they do.

A three-sentence text message is not an apology, and the victim has said as much.

Six months older and in Canada, he'd be charged with a crime that carries up to five years in prison.

Instead -- maybe because he was a foreign national and it wasn't worth anybody's bother-- he paid a fine about equal to his plane ticket.

He said he didn't want to be drafted AFTER going through the whole interview process. Which means he had every intent to win people over until a couple days before the draft. His statement reeks of covering his ass because he's afraid the whole league would blacklist him.

Bergevin is basically minimizing this and defending the kid's right to move forward with no significant consequences or restitution made. "A second chance" means doing something to fix your mess, and nobody has said a f***ing word about anything Logan may ever do to that effect. All we've gotten from the Habs is garbage about "maturing," "being on a journey," "being here for him to grow," as though f***ing a drunk chick in the mouth so you can secretly photograph her and publicly shame her is some Tolkien-esque journey where you need a brave Fellowship to accompany you to Mount Millionaire. We're taking a sick shithead and setting him up for a nice mid six figures salary so that he can pay off anybody he abuses in the future.

A disgusting contingent here is basically minimizing sex abuse because they hope to get a decent top 4 defensemen for their favorite team out of it.

And an even worse contingent is basically blaming the victim, to which all I can say is that when the day comes that you or someone you love suffers from sexual abuse, you better remember all the f***s you gave for consequences today.

For those who are all about moving on immediately to what his second chance has to look like, (a) his second chance doesn't have to look like ANYTHING in f***ing professional sports, (b) he should not even think about showing up to camp until he makes some serious restitution, in a public way, that convinces people that he actually understands what a sick f***ing thing that was and is working to make right by the girl (who gets NOTHING -- let's be clear here -- "hopefully justice is served to the girl" I keep reading as though the spirit of the lord is going to bless her with lucky lottery numbers -- she gets f*** ALL in this and you know it) and to defeat the culture that makes other sick f***ing pricks think they can get away with this shit --

And if not, a f***ing mob of fans ought to show up to rookie camp with signs about sexual abuse and demanding Bergevin's resignation.

Lol. That was something. I'm a pretty passionate person but I'm not sure I've ever written anything that heated before.

I'm not trying to diminish the harm it could do to this girl (I am truly sorry for any suffering she might have) but if this is how you feel about a 17 year old kid taking a picture of a private adult moment with a young woman and it becoming public, what should we do to the rapists and murderers? Stone them in the public square? Draw and quarter them? Disembowel them?

I'm not trying to "flame you" or pick on you but that amount of rage is just sad. Look if he had raped your wife and done something to your children, yeah all bets are off......I think I would go a little nuts. But I really hope you find more peace in your life. I'm really sorry this upset you so much.

 

[haseoke39]

Lol. That was something. I'm a pretty passionate person but I'm not sure I've ever written anything that heated before.

I'm not trying to diminish the harm it could do to this girl (I am truly sorry for any suffering she might have) but if this is how you feel about a 17 year old kid taking a picture of a private adult moment with a young woman and it becoming public, what should we do to the rapists and murderers? Stone them in the public square? Draw and quarter them? Disembowel them?

I'm not trying to "flame you" or pick on you but that amount of rage is just sad. Look if he had raped your wife and done something to your children, yeah all bets are off......I think I would go a little nuts. But I really hope you find more peace in your life. I'm really sorry this upset you so much.

You probably get just as heated when the coach messes up your favorite lines and arguing for a kid not to get drafted (at least until he's made anything like f***ing restitution) isn't being drawn and quartered, child.

 

[NicRattlehead]

I don't care. Give me the higher upside guy every day.

A little blunt but I think I agree if I understand correctly.

To me until he is convicted of a major crime and put in jail OR the league suspends him indefinitely, he's fair game to me. I think what he did is low class and he should be remorseful/do whatever he can to make things right with the young woman but I like his upside from an on ice perspective. Also, if he helps you win games or even better a championship and someone else comes up to you and says "yeah well our team has morals" my response is "that's great. We have champions" OR another I'm quite fond of is "yes, he's an asshole but he's our asshole." Not saying any of this specifically applies to Mailloux just my thoughts in general.

 

[ZUKI]

My point is everyone is willing to get the pitchforks out at the organization for taking the "sex offender". If we want to open this door, there's more that can be said. In some US states even, an 18 year old going down on a 17 year old is also a crime. But no one is saying there should be people outside the lady's work trying to get her fired from her job, NOR SHOULD THEY.

This entire thing is very one sided and blown out of proportion.

i agree but it was made in Sweden. I don't know the laws there about this kind of crime.
But the thing is that when we see the words "sex offender" a lot of us yet think he's a rapist or a a sexual predator.

In Canada , if it's consensual, a adult could have a relation with a minor i think of 16 or more. In the US i am not sure because laws change from a state to another

 

[haseoke39]

I think most of us do not think that at all. It is a horrible thing to do to someone. It's not boys being boys. I also do not think he intended it to be malicious to her. He was bragging about her to his friends. Probably thought nothing would come of it. It's incredibly stupid. That does not mean I do not think it is still a horrible thing, however. I think it's pretty bad when people do this without pics being involved.

I think what most of us are saying is that given the relative severity and his age it should not affect whether he is drafted. They have determined that he did something unacceptable, but probably also determine that it doesn't color who he will be as a whole because he was a teenager.

If he wanted to brag to his friends, he does it without taking secret f***ing photographs. Deal with that. Little Johnny Insecurity doesn't whip out his phone and take secret photos of the drunk chick he's f***ing in the mouth and then tag her social media because he wants to tell a little tale. He does that to assert f***ing power. He does that because he doesn't conceive the mouth wrapped around his cock as belonging to a f***ing person with feelings and the right to consent.

And we're not talking about "the rest of his life," it was a couple months ago. He is that person now. He's done nothing redeeming and doesn't seem to have any plans to. And the Habs don't give a f***.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Tell me this...when did he ask to be removed from the draft? Are you then telling me that teams interviewed him AFTER he got out with not wanting to be drafted? Really?

Why are you answering by a question ? Previously, you were implying that no other would have drafted him, because of what he did... Now it's because Logan asked to not be drafted ?

To answer your question, I would not trust an 18 years old's judgment, as we know now, he accepted it when the Habs drafted him.

 

[Treb]

If he wanted to brag to his friends, he does it without taking secret f***ing photographs. Deal with that. Little Johnny Insecurity doesn't whip out his phone and take secret photos of the drunk chick he's f***ing in the mouth and then tag her social media because he wants to tell a little tale. He does that to assert f***ing power. He does that because he doesn't conceive the mouth wrapped around his cock as belonging to a f***ing person with feelings and the capacity to consent.

And we're not talking about "the rest of his life," it was a couple months ago. He is that person now. He's done nothing redeeming and doesn't seem to have any plans to. And the Habs don't give a f***.

I don't think you remember how teenagers/young adult think/act.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Another ****ty dude gets a free pass

 

[Banjo Cat]

If he wanted to brag to his friends, he does it without taking secret f***ing photographs. Deal with that. Little Johnny Insecurity doesn't whip out his phone and take secret photos of the drunk chick he's f***ing in the mouth and then tag her social media because he wants to tell a little tale. He does that to assert f***ing power.

I would say that yes, he did do it to brag. You make a pretty good point here, because it is a pretty elaborate and disgusting way to do it. But the people he shared it with were his friends. If he wanted to assert power he would have let her know about it. If it were to malign her he would have sent it to people she knows.

It is a horrible thing to do. I think he was right to be charged. I think it was incredibly wrong. I think the fine is kind of a joke and it doesn't really make any restitution to the victim. But I suppose that's a civil matter.

I also think at some point he is going to have a career. I also think he will probably not do this again. He is a hockey player so that is the path he is on. At some point we all have to move on from the crime and he has to pursue his life. Whether or not now is the appropriate time seems to be the major point of disagreement here.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

I'm not. You're reading this opposite implication I meant to convey.

Sorry, I edited my comment.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

My point is everyone is willing to get the pitchforks out at the organization for taking the "sex offender". If we want to open this door, there's more that can be said. In some US states even, an 18 year old going down on a 17 year old is also a crime. But no one is saying there should be people outside the lady's work trying to get her fired from her job, NOR SHOULD THEY.

This entire thing is very one sided and blown out of proportion.

The states has what they call a "Romeo and Julliet" rule, where if the 2 are close in age there's not anything "wrong" assuming it's all consensual.

In Sweden they have this rule and the age of consent is 15 in Sweden.

Nothing the woman did was wrong.

People want only the facts to be presented for Mailloux, then the other side should stop pointing at the woman and saying she did wrong.

 

[haseoke39]

I don't think you remember how teenagers/young adult think/act.

If this is the behavior that you think is normal for young teenagers and young adults, god f***ing help us.

 

[NicRattlehead]

You probably get just as heated when the coach messes up your favorite lines and arguing for a kid not to get drafted (at least until he's made anything like f***ing restitution) isn't being drawn and quartered, child.

Regarding your first point, no not really. Refs in sports tend to piss me off a good bit. If my team gets cheated I get pretty irate. I'll admit that.

Regarding your second point.....you didn't "argue for a kid not get drafted". That looks like "Man I'm frustrated, I really wish we didn't draft him. Just seems like a bad seed." You said (and keep in mind I'm only picking one sentence) "And if not, a f***ing mob of fans ought to show up to rookie camp with signs about sexual abuse and demanding Bergevin's resignation." You want a bunch of fans to show up to a rookie camp and verbally abuse an 18 year old kid and you want a man's livelihood to be taken away for trying to pick a really skilled player because of an inappropriate picture where a girl didn't consent. Is it really that farfetched to say that if this is what you think is the correct punishment for a GM picking a kid guilty of/charged with defamation and criminal photography then the punishment for rape and murder (which are clearly far worse) would be stoning, draw and quarter, or disembowelment in your world? I'm sorry but your call for action just seems a bit barbaric and a little disturbing that someone would actually feel this way.

 

[MD thaivuN]

If this is the behavior that you think is normal for young teenagers and young adults, god f***ing help us.

i mean people are dumb

 

[Scriptor]

If he wanted to brag to his friends, he does it without taking secret f***ing photographs. Deal with that. Little Johnny Insecurity doesn't whip out his phone and take secret photos of the drunk chick he's f***ing in the mouth and then tag her social media because he wants to tell a little tale. He does that to assert f***ing power. He does that because he doesn't conceive the mouth wrapped around his cock as belonging to a f***ing person with feelings and the capacity to consent.

And we're not talking about "the rest of his life," it was a couple months ago. He is that person now. He's done nothing redeeming and doesn't seem to have any plans to. And the Habs don't give a f***.

You've obviously researched the matter extensively and sat in on the counselling sessions he has had with a female psychiatrist to know exactly how he feels about what happened and how serious he is about improving the way he is?

I doubt that two months of counselling (knowing how these things might work) have made a complete, magical transformation, but it might have already brought awareness to how wrong dismissing the victim as vindicative is and about Breaking trust regarding intimate moments spent with someone else.

Expecting a full change at this stage for the boy or a full recovery for the girl may well be idealistic and unrealistic.

For the girl, its hard to say how lasting the trauma (if any) might be. Every individual is different and copes with things differently.

 

[Gravity]

What I find crazy is that people felt the need for him to go to therapy for this....It's plain stupidity (his actions) no matter how you slice it and his wishes should have been granted with him not being drafted this year. There's no denying the impact such actions can have on others but todays hypersensitive society needed to immediately blow this up and to "fix" what's wrong with him. Must. fit. the. mold. of. a. socially. acceptable. human. being. in. 2021.