Post-Game Talk: Habs blow 2 goal lead again lose 5-2 to Rags

[BergevinBurner]

This may be the most depressing sports team in the world to follow...

Our "core" isn't strong enough to hold onto a lead to save their life, let alone make playoffs.

In our "deep prospect pool" only 1 player has shown the potential to be a high impact player, and if we're lucky maybe 1 or 2 more pan out like that.

But where does that leave us in 3 years??? With 3 good young players surrounded by a washed up core and massive amounts of money locked up in senior citizens past their primes and no money to attract free agents...

The future is bright!

 

[26Mats]

Doesn't matter who should be there, it doesn't absolve Danault of his own record.

You don't put someone in the wrong role and tell them they suck because they're not filling that role - especially when they're one of the better players in the league at another role. Do hall of famers Gainey and Carboneau suck because they weren't number 1 centers???

It makes no sense.

What is Danault's record? 43 points in 66 games.

Some posters are saying Danault sucks - not he's not a #1 center - but he sucks period. What kind of idiots have a logic that because Danault is not a #1 center, therefore he sucks. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I'll tell you who sucks at the role they're in way more than Danault. Bergevin sucks as a GM. Maybe he's a good assistant GM. Julien sucks as a head coach. Can't even try Gallagher and Tatar with Suzuki and Domi. Timmins sucks as a head scout. Keep him on as a major mind in selecting Dmen and goalies. But bring in a new head scout - that is let the new GM bring in a new head scout. Don't let Bergevin do it!

 

[MaxDummy]

Danault is still fairly young at 27. He should absolutely be a part of our core going forward and he's one of the few moves from MB that truly improved the team.

At best Danault replaced Plekanec. Truly improved the team? Nah. We're stuck in mediocrity instead of rebuilding

 

[M.C.G. 31]

It really sucks knowing the Rangers and Habs were in a similar spot, one franchise picked a lane and committed to rebuilding while the other didn’t, and now the one that picked their lane is already on the upswing.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Danault - I'm fine with him as long as he's paid like a 2nd/3rd liner.

The Habs have 3 guys who can play top 6 center, or will be able to in a year or two. Domi, KK, Suzuki.
They have to bargain like that's the case, and trade if they can't extend him before the season starts.

 

[Patccmoi]

At best Danault replaced Plekanec. Truly improved the team? Nah. We're stuck in mediocrity instead of rebuilding

I agree, Danault's role was pretty much replacing Plekanec. But he was a LOT younger, it's not like 2-3 years difference. Danault will still be a good player in 5+ years, so he's actually an addition to a future core, which is fine. Future core will also need some veteran player, and a very responsible 2-ways middle-6 center is perfect for that.

It's not like we traded Plekanec for him. Plekanec was just done, he was not an asset anymore. So Danault came in for giving away dead wood and he came WITH a pick, he didn't cost one. Trading dead wood for a solid young middle-6 center and a 2nd round pick is significantly improving the team. It's EXACTLY what you should do when rebuilding.

The issue is not Danault or his trade. It's that appart from the Pacioretty and the Danault trade, nearly every other significant trade has been bad in the optics of a rebuild (trading out best LD prospect for a winger with character issue, trading out Norris d-man for an older 1 for 1, etc...). That's why we're stuck in mediocrity.

 

[Patccmoi]

Danault - I'm fine with him as long as he's paid like a 2nd/3rd liner.

The Habs have 3 guys who can play top 6 center, or will be able to in a year or two. Domi, KK, Suzuki.
They have to bargain like that's the case, and trade if they can't extend him before the season starts.

Domi should be moved to the wing or traded, unless KK really hits a wall and can't develop, but I don't really see this happening.

 

[Patccmoi]

Lol, yes. What kind of question is this?

Well, today I learned that Tatar and Gallagher are top 5 players at their position. And they say we have no elite talent!

Give Tatar 5 more points and he'd be the 5th LW in the NHL... he's currently 8th.

Man, if only Danault wasn't holding him back, he might even have been top 3! He's ruining our chances at having 2 players in the top 20 of scoring!

Seriously...

 

[NotProkofievian]

Well, today I learned that Tatar and Gallagher are top 5 players at their position. And they say we have no elite talent!

Give Tatar 5 more points and he'd be the 5th LW in the NHL... he's currently 8th.

Man, if only Danault wasn't holding him back, he might even have been top 3! He's ruining our chances at having 2 players in the top 20 of scoring!

Seriously...

No, today you decided to be incredibly obtuse. We have 0 players in the top 20 of scoring, for starters, not even just considering forwards. To continue, I never made any claim about the rankings of our players, only that they would obviously do better with a real 1C over our renta-centre in Phillip Danault. Because of course they would. Would you like to take up the opposing position to this? That would be just as pathetic as your made up counterposition in this post, I suppose.

That will be all.

 

[RC51]

WOW some of you are so angry that the habs lost yet another 2 goal lead, It seems you would be HAPPY if the habs score NO GOALS hence never lose a 2 goal lead.
makes NO SENSE

 

[Patccmoi]

No, today you decided to be incredibly obtuse. We have 0 players in the top 20 of scoring, for starters, not even just considering forwards. To continue, I never made any claim about the rankings of our players, only that they would obviously do better with a real 1C over our renta-centre in Phillip Danault. Because of course they would. Would you like to take up the opposing position to this? That would be just as pathetic as your made up counterposition in this post, I suppose.

That will be all.

What I'm saying is that at ES, Danault IS actually filling the role of a 1st line center currently. Even offensively. That's what the stats show. He's not a top 10 1st line C, but he's not a bottom 10 either. He's an average 1st line C at ES offensively, and above average defensively.

If Tatar's stats would increase by any significant margin (not even 10%) playing with a better 1st line center at ES, then he would be top 5 at his position. So either Tatar should really be a top 5 LW in the league and Danault is holding him back, or Danault isn't really dragging his numbers down. I mean if Tatar is currently 30th in the league playing with such a mediocre center, he would definitely end up in the top 20 if he was playing with just a decent one right? It's not even 5 points away.

If what you mean by "a real 1C" is Crosby/McDavid, sure they would significantly increase production of their wingers. But Danault is actually not slowing down his. Tatar is having a career year playing with him nearly all season.

So sure in a better situation he's not our 1C. I fully agree. But he is actually filling the role very, very decently. The gap in his stats with other #1C is very largely due to not producing much on the PP, but he's also not playing nearly as much on the PP (and he SHOULDN'T, his skill set doesn't work well there). So he's not slowing his wingers at ES, and he's not their C on the PP. So I just don't understand why people are complaining about this at all.

Of all the issues we have, Danault being used as the #1C is one of the least of our problem. We could easily make the playoffs with him as #1C (I'm not saying we'd be a contender though, and that's why we need Suzuki/KK to take that role in the next years). There's a massive mess with the team, but Danault isn't part of the problem, he's part of the solution.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Domi should be moved to the wing or traded, unless KK really hits a wall and can't develop, but I don't really see this happening.

... or unless Danault asks for 6M. Then you put Domi at center - where he has put up 72 points - and trade Danault.

Ideally, Danault signs a reasonable deal, KK develops, and Domi moves to wing or is traded, as you suggest.

 

[ahmedou]

WOW some of you are so angry that the habs lost yet another 2 goal lead, It seems you would be HAPPY if the habs score NO GOALS hence never lose a 2 goal lead.
makes NO SENSE

That's a lack of respect toward goals...

 

[ECWHSWI]

Well, today I learned that Tatar and Gallagher are top 5 players at their position. And they say we have no elite talent!

Give Tatar 5 more points and he'd be the 5th LW in the NHL... he's currently 8th.

Man, if only Danault wasn't holding him back, he might even have been top 3! He's ruining our chances at having 2 players in the top 20 of scoring!

Seriously...

we have an elite 1st line.

 

[1909]

So many missed opportunities over the last two weeks. It's sickening ! And the trade deadline trades did not help at all.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

we have an elite 1st line.

Id say our 1st is very middle to late in the league rankings of elite first lines I’d put us around 15-20

 

[HespelerGreenFlash]

Well, today I learned that Tatar and Gallagher are top 5 players at their position. And they say we have no elite talent!

Give Tatar 5 more points and he'd be the 5th LW in the NHL... he's currently 8th.

Man, if only Danault wasn't holding him back, he might even have been top 3! He's ruining our chances at having 2 players in the top 20 of scoring!

Seriously...

Give the wingers ahead of Tatar 5 more points and his numbers are less appealing!!! Broken logic. That's like saying if the teams ahead of us were worse the Habs would be better

 

[SOLR]

You don't put someone in the wrong role and tell them they suck because they're not filling that role - especially when they're one of the better players in the league at another role. Do hall of famers Gainey and Carboneau suck because they weren't number 1 centers???

It makes no sense.

What is Danault's record? 43 points in 66 games.

Some posters are saying Danault sucks - not he's not a #1 center - but he sucks period. What kind of idiots have a logic that because Danault is not a #1 center, therefore he sucks. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I'll tell you who sucks at the role they're in way more than Danault. Bergevin sucks as a GM. Maybe he's a good assistant GM. Julien sucks as a head coach. Can't even try Gallagher and Tatar with Suzuki and Domi. Timmins sucks as a head scout. Keep him on as a major mind in selecting Dmen and goalies. But bring in a new head scout - that is let the new GM bring in a new head scout. Don't let Bergevin do it!

Yeah you do, its pretty hard to get 12 goals only from the first line and 18 minutes of game time. I get that hes not in the best spot for his skills, but he shouldnt be shielded from criticisms and he isn't.

 

[blarneylad]

At best Danault replaced Plekanec. Truly improved the team? Nah. We're stuck in mediocrity instead of rebuilding

Plekanec was a far better hockey player in his prime. 7 time 20 goal scorer

 

[SOLR]

he’s been anointed the number 1 center. It’s insane. Imagine Brian skrudkand being your number 1 centerman. This should cost Claude his job.

His face should cost Claude his job. I was one of his critics after 6 months with us the first time around. Imagine how I love this coach now.

We need to stop re-hiring coaches, what the hell does it says about us as a team.

 

[SOLR]

Plekanec was a far better hockey player in his prime. 7 time 20 goal scorer

Oh yeah, Plekanec in his prime was a 75 pts guy. He had a pretty short prime period, however.

 

[Patccmoi]

Give the wingers ahead of Tatar 5 more points and his numbers are less appealing!!! Broken logic. That's like saying if the teams ahead of us were worse the Habs would be better

Did you read what I was answering too? If people are arguing that Danault is dragging his wingers down, then it means they'd have better production with another center, and so have more points, right? Or are every top LW also being dragged down by 1C that are as bad as Danault?

I mean the entire post you answered to was just a sarcastic answer... I do not believe Tatar would have been better with another center, considering he's having a career year.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Id say our 1st is very middle to late in the league rankings of elite first lines I’d put us around 15-20

well the guy I quoted was pretty clear, Tatar is among elite LWers, Danault is average offensively but Selke calibre defensively and Gallagher is elite RWer

so I'd say overall, based on what the guy I quoted was saying, our 1st line is elite.

 

[Patccmoi]

... or unless Danault asks for 6M. Then you put Domi at center - where he has put up 72 points - and trade Danault.

Ideally, Danault signs a reasonable deal, KK develops, and Domi moves to wing or is traded, as you suggest.

The Habs are a better team with Danault at center than Domi at center.

Domi has put up 72 points that's right, although it seems more to be the exception than the rule. But he is worse defensively, and I do not think he is worth having as an offensive center over Suzuki (and hopefully KK).

I honestly wouldn't mind Danault at 6M although hopefully it ends up lower. It's slightly overpaid, but you know what he brings, and what he brings is important to winning hockey games.

If Suzuki/KK become 1C and 2C, I do not believe Domi can fill the role of a 3C going against opposing team's top lines. Danault totally could. Domi would never put up 72 points with average wingers.

 

[Patccmoi]

well the guy I quoted was pretty clear, Tatar is among elite LWers, Danault is average offensively but Selke calibre defensively and Gallagher is elite RWer

so I'd say overall, based on what the guy I quoted was saying, our 1st line is elite.

You did get it was sarcasm... right? What I'm saying is that our wingers are definitely elite IF they put up these numbers with Danault dragging them down. I don't believe he is dragging them down though.