Post-Game Talk: Habs 5 Canucks 1 - ...discuss...?

[Zippgunn]

--Who are Michaelis and Hawryluk and why do I keep hearing their names? Like...there's really no one else back there, is there.

.

Sure there is, there's Loui Eriksson who is easily twice as good as both of them put together. That contract though...

 

[HabsAddict]

Jets, Oilers, Canucks, Habs, Flames.imo...

I don't know why you left out the Leafs. They are not going to fare well when they are ground down in the playoffs. You let them freewheel and their top talent scores. You grind them and Matthews whines to mommy.

ALL the teams have less then stellar defense. Most have goaltender question marks. Two have high end front end but no depth. We have depth bit no high end front. Toffoli/Anderson are no match for Draistl/McD or Matthews.

The trade deadline will be interesting .

The bigger picture for he Canucks is what happens next year. You need to replace Edler and add scoring. Hamilton and who? You may also benefit from a structural defensive coach like Julien.

 

[StreetHawk]

There isn't as much a gap between the two teams as last night indicated.

If we didn't pick up Toffoli and Anderson, we would be down at least 20 goals. And probably be debating if we could catch you.

You don't have to blow up what you got, just make a couple of good signings off season.

The old truism applies here....your not as good as your best days or as bad as your worst days.....

There is no cap room in the off season however. Almost all ufa money coming off the books is used to shift to the rfa group. Can maybe sign all the replacements for those ufa people to around $1 mill each.

unless they find takers for eriksson, Roussel, Holtby, Beagle.

they don’t need to blow it up. But another season like this one being hampered by bad contracts should mean that they need to move Miller for someone younger.

I think if Colorado wants to make a push that the Canucks could see about Newhook for Miller deal as the core pieces.

 

[HabsAddict]

I think if Colorado wants to make a push that the Canucks could see about Newhook for Miller deal as the core pieces.

Newhook has "certain NHL" written on him. Likely top 9 and possibly top 6. I wanted him before Guhle, but I think Guhle is ahead in that he will be top 4 and boot Chiarot in two years. Newhook may be too valuable of a future piece to give up for current help. Or not. I know I wouldn't trade Guhle.

Miller may be a really good add for us by replacing stone hands Danault. BUT, the cost of acquisition is the big issue. The level of prospects that we wont trade wont interest you unless a 1st plus Danault. Guhle/Kk/Suzuki/Romanov/Caufield are untouchable and our future foundation pieces. Anyone else is too questionable and too low quality.

Miller will give us another 2C while we have two more current 2C in development (Kk and Suzuki). Not too shabby for a team that had Danault as their first for too long.

We can fit him in our cap and no different form what Danault will cost us next year.

So if you want Danault plus our 1st for Miller, let's talk.....

P.S. how is his 200 ft game? if not very good, he's not a fit.

EDIT.....actually, to amend the trade. Miller and Virtanen for 1st, late 2nd and Danault. We either hit a home run with a motivated Virtanen, more offensive Miller to our rolling 4 lines.....or I get fired as the Habs virtual GM. ..........

 

[mriswith]

Newhook has "certain NHL" written on him. Likely top 9 and possibly top 6. I wanted him before Guhle, but I think Guhle is ahead in that he will be top 4 and boot Chiarot in two years. Newhook may be too valuable of a future piece to give up for current help. Or not. I know I wouldn't trade Guhle.

Miller may be a really good add for us by replacing stone hands Danault. BUT, the cost of acquisition is the big issue. The level of prospects that we wont trade wont interest you unless a 1st plus Danault. Guhle/Kk/Suzuki/Romanov/Caufield are untouchable and our future foundation pieces. Anyone else is too questionable and too low quality.

Miller will give us another 2C while we have two more current 2C in development (Kk and Suzuki). Not too shabby for a team that had Danault as their first for too long.

We can fit him in our cap and no different form what Danault will cost us next year.

So if you want Danault plus our 1st for Miller, let's talk.....

P.S. how is his 200 ft game? if not very good, he's not a fit.

EDIT.....actually, to amend the trade. Miller and Virtanen for 1st, late 2nd and Danault. We either hit a home run with a motivated Virtanen, more offensive Miller to our rolling 4 lines.....or I get fired as the Habs virtual GM. ..........

Danault has no value to us. Too old, expiring contract, and reportedly turned down an enormous offer from you guys that we can't and wouldn't want to match. Also he isn't having a good year.

With what you are keeping off the table, there's probably no deal to be made.

 

[vanuck]

It's telling how dead this thread is.

I've been thinking about this team way too much the last few days. Weirdly, none of my thoughts are coherent. I'm just waiting. Caught between wanting them to lose out so changes have to be made sooner rather than later but also having empathy for the players and their development.

The only thing I'll say in this regard is...

Short-term pain. Long-term gain. Vroom vroom.

 

[HabsAddict]

Danault has no value to us. Too old, expiring contract, and reportedly turned down an enormous offer from you guys that we can't and wouldn't want to match. Also he isn't having a good year.

With what you are keeping off the table, there's probably no deal to be made.

Both teams need to get value to make a trade.

It makes no sense for us to trade 20 year old who are current 2C for an older and more expensive 2C. Plus we got them cost controlled for 5 years. We would want more then just Miller to trade one of them, which is too risky for you unless you value Kk and Suzuki far more then current 2C status. Both appear likely to be 1C or in Suzuki's case, potentially an Aho level 1C.

Caufield is an interesting trade piece, but highly volatile in a trade. We would want more then his likely value because he holds too much promise.

Other then Danault (who is probably going to sign for 5x6), we have nothing else to offer that replaces the loss of your 2C.

Oh well..

 

[bbud]

Amusing reading some of the posts I do see point in a few having frustration with certain players but knee-jerk reactions just to do something is not a solution .
Miller I'd keep this season we nave seen Hughes regress coaching unable to employ either solid game plans including power plays as well as simple game management , it's confusing as a fan and I don't doubt at times to the players , it is just strange considering how well they played last spring but it seems time to start with new coaching staff and off-season moves with a proper plan in place there is a good core talent level but games like last night are beyond acceptable they looked lost that cannot continue .

 

[tantalum]

There isn't as much a gap between the two teams as last night indicated.

If we didn't pick up Toffoli and Anderson, we would be down at least 20 goals. And probably be debating if we could catch you.

You don't have to blow up what you got, just make a couple of good signings off season.

The old truism applies here....your not as good as your best days or as bad as your worst days.....

Maybe the gap isn’t as big between the two teams but we aren’t talking the Habs are anything like the Lightning here. What you have is a gap between a bubble team and one who clearly isn’t even at that level. These teams have played each other a crap load of times already and it’s very clear who the better team is.

So the gap may not be big between these two teams but the gap of where the Canucks need to be and where they are is huge. And I would disagree the gap isn’t big...the habs gave out scored the Canucks 34-19 in the match ups so far.

A couple of signings is under estimating things unless those couple of signings are two top 2 D-men.

But of course the Canucks can’t sign such players even if they became available....

 

[HabsAddict]

Maybe the gap isn’t as big between the two teams but we aren’t talking the Habs are anything like the Lightning here. What you have is a gap between a bubble team and one who clearly isn’t even at that level. These teams have played each other a crap load of times already and it’s very clear who the better team is.

So the gap may not be big between these two teams but the gap of where the Canucks need to be and where they are is huge. And I would disagree the gap isn’t big...the habs gave out scored the Canucks 34-19 in the match ups so far.

A couple of signings is under estimating things unless those couple of signings are two top 2 D-men.

But of course the Canucks can’t sign such players even if they became available....

I would argue that last year we were you are now. Maybe worse. Two players made the difference. Well, a bit more then two players. Kk and Suzuki stepped up. but they didn't go from 3C to 1C. More like 3C to 2C. Not exactly a wholesale change nor something that any other team couldn't do.

All too often, fans over react to a bad loss.......and the baby is in jeopardy!

 

[VanJack]

Two teams--the Habs and Canucks--who had diametrically opposed off-seasons. While the cap-strapped Canucks had to waive goodbye to five key guys, the Habs had oodles of cap space to address all their needs. And they used it wisely. Tofoli and Anderson are two of their leading scorers and signed to relatively team-friendly contracts.

Sadly, two teams doomed to be heading in opposite directions before the season even began.

 

[I am toxic]

I would argue that last year we were you are now. Maybe worse. Two players made the difference. Well, a bit more then two players. Kk and Suzuki stepped up. but they didn't go from 3C to 1C. More like 3C to 2C. Not exactly a wholesale change nor something that any other team couldn't do.

All too often, fans over react to a bad loss.......and the baby is in jeopardy!

What a out 7 years of losses?

 

[tantalum]

I would argue that last year we were you are now. Maybe worse. Two players made the difference. Well, a bit more then two players. Kk and Suzuki stepped up. but they didn't go from 3C to 1C. More like 3C to 2C. Not exactly a wholesale change nor something that any other team couldn't do.

All too often, fans over react to a bad loss.......and the baby is in jeopardy!

This isn’t one loss. This is 7 years and numerous losses like this just this season alone. This is a blueline that is a complete disaster. It’s a bottom 6 that is a complete disaster. The top 6 or 7 players are fine but the rest is yikes.

You are also missing a very important factor in this...the Habs had cap space to add. The Canucks had to let multiple pieces walk in order to stay under the cap. Space that opens up this summer will go to raises to key players leaving no room to improve the roster.

The Habs were in a completely different place. They had a blueline. They needed some more finish up front but they were a team that played a top notch ES game (second last year in xGF% for example). Special teams hurt them. Lack of finish hurt them. That isn’t the Canucks. The Canucks have a bad blueline all told and have been bad to very bad at ES for years. Bad ES teams like this are not a player or two away. They are numerous players and likely a new coaching staff and system away.

 

[HabsAddict]

This isn’t one loss. This is 7 years and numerous losses like this just this season alone. This is a blueline that is a complete disaster. It’s a bottom 6 that is a complete disaster. The top 6 or 7 players are fine but the rest is yikes.

You are also missing a very important factor in this...the Habs had cap space to add. The Canucks had to let multiple pieces walk in order to stay under the cap. Space that opens up this summer will go to raises to key players leaving no room to improve the roster.

The Habs were in a completely different place. They had a blueline. They needed some more finish up front but they were a team that played a top notch ES game (second last year in xGF% for example). Special teams hurt them. Lack of finish hurt them. That isn’t the Canucks. The Canucks have a bad blueline all told and have been bad to very bad at ES for years. Bad ES teams like this are not a player or two away. They are numerous players and likely a new coaching staff and system away.

This is where a Boser for Guhle-Mysak-Caufield trade rebuilds you and puts us into contender territory.

Guhle is guaranteed top 4
Mysak is guaranteed top 9 probable top 6
Caufield is either a 40 goal home run or a serviceable top 9

It doesn't have to be us....and giving up high quality players for future rebuilds probably makes a lot of posters throw up...but you got to have high quality prospects AND sign FA to rebuild. Or you can be in perennial slow rebuild. See Sabres and Oilers.

Then you hire Julien to mold them into a 200 ft team.

 

[Javaman]

This is where a Boser for Guhle-Mysak-Caufield trade rebuilds you and puts us into contender territory.

Guhle is guaranteed top 4
Mysak is guaranteed top 9 probable top 6
Caufield is either a 40 goal home run or a serviceable top 9

It doesn't have to be us....and giving up high quality players for future rebuilds probably makes a lot of posters throw up...but you got to have high quality prospects AND sign FA to rebuild. Or you can be in perennial slow rebuild. See Sabres and Oilers.

Then you hire Julien to mold them into a 200 ft team.

Boeser isn't the problem. Trading Boeser isn't the solution.

Benning is the problem. Firing Benning is the solution.

 

[Get North]

This team won 3 in a row before losing this game. They got smoked in this one, but March has been good overall (4-2).

Looking forward, we get Edmonton at the end of their back-to-back and Senators twice. Then we end our Montreal season series with 2 games. The next 5 games are big, but if you hate the team you wouldn't notice!

 

[tantalum]

This is where a Boser for Guhle-Mysak-Caufield trade rebuilds you and puts us into contender territory.

Guhle is guaranteed top 4
Mysak is guaranteed top 9 probable top 6
Caufield is either a 40 goal home run or a serviceable top 9

It doesn't have to be us....and giving up high quality players for future rebuilds probably makes a lot of posters throw up...but you got to have high quality prospects AND sign FA to rebuild. Or you can be in perennial slow rebuild. See Sabres and Oilers.

Then you hire Julien to mold them into a 200 ft team.

As long as we’re looking at magical, imaginary and never going to happen trades I guess the Canucks will be fine.

And why the heck would they be trading the guy who has shown to be the best and most consistent forward this year?

I would entertain the trading if Horvat and Miller well before Boeser right now. But that isn’t an area of issue. They can trade a key piece and get a couple other decent ones in return but NONE of them are guaranteed.

And it still leaves you with a bad bottom 6, a now worsened top 6, a blueline that doesn’t get better with one added rookie and still an organization with very little depth. Awful depth when you realize how bad they’ve been all these years.

Oh and they are cap strapped so that signing good free agents things is out the window. Just as it was this summer.

 

[HabsAddict]

And it still leaves you with a bad bottom 6, a now worsened top 6, a blueline that doesn’t get better with one added rookie and still an organization with very little depth. Awful depth when you realize how bad they’ve been all these years.
.

That's my point. You are not going to add 3 blue chip prospects by trading Miller. Ours or someone else's, it's still "have to give to get".

You need to have blue chip prospects graduating....and their cheap contracts allows you to get FA to build on. Preferably 2 a year and no backslides.

I hate to admit it because I don't like Bbinz, but other then one trade and overpaying price, he's getting it right. Could be better, but the "formula" is right.

Just my 2 cents worth and nothing more...

 

[LuckyDay]

Not sure why people are angry. 2 points vs 3 on this is series was a lot more than was supposed to happen.

It makes sense that the Habs would adjust their game to our's - this is a series and the division is getting to know each other real well. I am glad Demko played and took the loss because Holtby would have been thrown under the bus for doing that.

Demko has stolen some games for us this season but he can't keep that up every night. Fans have been screaming to play him every night and look what Calgary did to Markstrom.

Demko is young and he gets nervous sometimes. Playing too many games has proved a problem for him in the past. Holtby is there for stability. Let's hope he doesn't keep getting nervous in games too.

Also, some defense would help. Playing Hughes 30 min a game is going to wear on him.

 

[4Twenty]

Not sure why people are angry. 2 points vs 3 on this is series was a lot more than was supposed to happen.

It makes sense that the Habs would adjust their game to our's - this is a series and the division is getting to know each other real well. I am glad Demko played and took the loss because Holtby would have been thrown under the bus for doing that.

Demko has stolen some games for us this season but he can't keep that up every night. Fans have been screaming to play him every night and look what Calgary did to Markstrom.

Demko is young and he gets nervous sometimes. Playing too many games has proved a problem for him in the past. Holtby is there for stability. Let's hope he doesn't keep getting nervous in games too.

Also, some defense would help. Playing Hughes 30 min a game is going to wear on him.

People are angry with a lottery picking team in year 7 of this GM’s shocking reboot. People see a goalie bailing out a team.

The Demko vs Holtby stuff is weird. Demko’s been great. Holtby has not.

 

[Hit the post]

People are angry with a lottery picking team in year 7 of this GM’s shocking reboot. People see a goalie bailing out a team.
.

With the GM basically asking for another two years of rebuild time.

 

[LuckyDay]

We're all angry about the big picture

What I mean is there is no reason to be angry over the game when we weren't supposed to win even one in the first place.

 

[4Twenty]

We're all angry about the big picture

What I mean is there is no reason to be angry over the game when we weren't supposed to win even one in the first place.

Wow what a low bar. Don’t be discouraged kids. The team you’re investing time to watch isn’t expected to win. A terrible performance of a-ok.

 

[M2Beezy]

Wow what a low bar. Don’t be discouraged kids. The team you’re investing time to watch isn’t expected to win. A terrible performance of a-ok.