Post-Game Talk: Habs 4, Pens 3 (SO) - Well That Sucked

[Gurglesons]

Wasn’t the entire issue of Sprong not being on the fourth line that he wouldn’t produce?

Seems to be doing fine down there..

Also seems like Simon and Hornqvist are getting shafted as well. Eventually, Sullivan will line blender Sprong into the top nine.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Wasn’t the entire issue of Sprong not being on the fourth line that he wouldn’t produce?

Seems to be doing fine down there..

Also seems like Simon and Hornqvist are getting shafted as well. Eventually, Sullivan will line blender Sprong into the top nine.

If Rust continues not producing and Sprong keeps it up, you have to think at some point Sprong will get a shot in Rust's place in the top 9 even if we won't keep Rust at LW. This is the forcing Sully's hand option that was mentioned.

 

[mpp9]

I respectfully disagree. With the amount of fresh blood on the roster, with the way they coasted through most of the RS, I don't see fatigue as being truly a factor. Injuries? I'd rather ask Sean Couturier about playing injured in playoffs.

I believe it was a motivation problem. The same problem they suffered from the entire season. The same problem they are suffering from now.

Note for the moderator: This is not a troll post, but my genuine opinion.

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Dumoulin, Hornqvist, Hagelin, Rust, Sheary, Maatta and Murray all played from fall 2015 to spring 2018 with very little time off. It's absolutely one of the main reasons why we lost to the Caps. Main reason? Caps are very good and could have easily beaten us the 2 seasons prior.

 

[Gurglesons]

If Rust continues not producing and Sprong keeps it up, you have to think at some point Sprong will get a shot in Rust's place in the top 9 even if we won't keep Rust at LW.

I think at the end of the first period Sprong and Kessel had played relatively the same minutes it was something like 3:42 and 4:12.

Obviously, he got buried after that. Unsure why we would’ve seen Sprong out there an 8 minute span where we got 3 goals scored on us. It is exactly what happened in Washington.

 

[Gurglesons]

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Dumoulin, Hornqvist, Hagelin, Rust, Sheary, Maatta and Murray all played from fall 2015 to spring 2018 with very little time off. It's absolutely one of the main reasons why we lost to the Caps. Main reason? Caps are very good and could have easily beaten us the 2 seasons prior.

Arguably SHOULD have beaten us in 2017.

Fleury and Rust won us that game.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think at the end of the first period Sprong and Kessel had played relatively the same minutes it was something like 3:42 and 4:12.

Obviously, he got buried after that. Unsure why we would’ve seen Sprong out there an 8 minute span where we got 3 goals scored on us. It is exactly what happened in Washington.

Yeah I get how it happened. What I'm saying is that Sprong is moving towards earning a promotion at the same time Rust (or Horny) is moving towards deserving a demotion if he doesn't put up a point or two soon. Right now if the lines get shuffled, putting Sprong in the top 9 seems like a real possibility. I don't think it's necessary or that it's some awful move if it doesn't happen, but it is looking much more possible than it did a week ago.

 

[Gurglesons]

Rust only played 4 more minutes at ES than Sprong. The majority of his minutes last night would’ve been PK. Half of our wingers got their ice time murdered last night pretty much.

 

[Peat]

I think people have revisionist history when thinking back to the Pens Caps PO series in 2018,either that or I don’t know what you guys were watching...it really wasn’t that close...our goaltending wasn’t very good and the Caps heavily outplayed the Pens in nearly every game, and were the faster team to pucks...forget the scores, they never tell the whole story...

Who knows if we had been completely healthy but no team ever is...still, the way Murray was playing (and still is playing) I don’t see us winning that series...

I never felt as heavily outplayed this year as I did the year before. A few moments different and we make it. A few players fitter or better and I think it would have been very different.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Wasn’t the entire issue of Sprong not being on the fourth line that he wouldn’t produce?

Seems to be doing fine down there..

Also seems like Simon and Hornqvist are getting shafted as well. Eventually, Sullivan will line blender Sprong into the top nine.

Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I seem to remember that Sprong was on the 4th line was because we had a surplus of good RWs and the coach didn't see Rust as an LW. Well that's out. Meanwhile Sprong has 3 assists in < 9 minutes per while Horny and Rust are sitting at 14 and 16 minutes per and have 1 assist between them.

I think at the end of the first period Sprong and Kessel had played relatively the same minutes it was something like 3:42 and 4:12.

Obviously, he got buried after that. Unsure why we would’ve seen Sprong out there an 8 minute span where we got 3 goals scored on us. It is exactly what happened in Washington.

Was Sprong to blame on any of them? Then maybe he shouldn't get benched for it.

Maybe instead of looking at Sprong as his red herring whenever we get scored on in bunches, Sully should look in a mirror. The next person who thinks Rust-Sheahan-Hornqvist will turn out well will be the first.

 

[EightyOne]

I think people have revisionist history when thinking back to the Pens Caps PO series in 2018,either that or I don’t know what you guys were watching...it really wasn’t that close...our goaltending wasn’t very good and the Caps heavily outplayed the Pens in nearly every game, and were the faster team to pucks...forget the scores, they never tell the whole story...

Who knows if we had been completely healthy but no team ever is...still, the way Murray was playing (and still is playing) I don’t see us winning that series...

I never felt as heavily outplayed this year as I did the year before. A few moments different and we make it. A few players fitter or better and I think it would have been very different.

I feel that, in all honesty, despite how TERRIBLE the team and coach were, the Penguins were extremely lucky just to get past even the f***ing Flyers.

They never felt in control against the Caps at all.

It was like watching a dying star. A white dwarf heading to a black hole.

That's physics.

It's inevitable.

 

[Peat]

I feel that, in all honesty, despite how TERRIBLE the team and coach were, the Penguins were extremely lucky just to get past even the ****ing Flyers.

They never felt in control against the Caps at all.

It was like watching a dying star. A white dwarf heading to a black hole.

That's physics.

It's inevitable.

I didn't feel like the team was controlling the games against Philly, but I did feel like they were in control of the scoreboard. I felt pretty confident that we were gonna outscore them in at least 4 games.

I felt the same about the Caps to begin with then I realised three of our main weapons weren't right and Holtby was in better form than Murray.

 

[Gurglesons]

Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I seem to remember that Sprong was on the 4th line was because we had a surplus of good RWs and the coach didn't see Rust as an LW. Well that's out. Meanwhile Sprong has 3 assists in < 9 minutes per while Horny and Rust are sitting at 14 and 16 minutes per and have 1 assist between them.

But, they were playing a ton of PK and PP time which influenced that.. I’m not saying you are wrongs.

Maybe instead of looking at Sprong as his red herring whenever we get scored on in bunches, Sully should look in a mirror. The next person who thinks Rust-Sheahan-Hornqvist will turn out well will be the first.

I’m sure this will change as he gets more comfortable with Sprong. At this time I don’t think it is as much of a red herring as it is the entire bottom six is getting dropped.

 

[Empoleon8771]

My guess with Rust is that they prefer him on RW unless they can move a better player than Rust to RW, at that point they're fine with him on LW. Sprong isn't better than Rust, so Rust isn't going to be moved to LW for Sprong like he would be for Guentzel or Brassard.

They should be willing to move Rust to LW for Sprong, but I doubt they'll be willing to. Sprong playing on the 4th line isn't even necessarily a problem, the problem is Sprong getting 3 minutes a night on the 4th line. They need to roll their lineup like they did against Vegas.

The more I try to make a lineup that I like, the more I dislike that the Penguins committed for as long as they did to Hornqvist. Or rather that they committed to Hornqvist like they did and didn't move any RWers. You have 3 solely RWers in Sprong, Kessel and Hornqvist, I don't like that. This isn't anything new though, I've been saying since June that they need to move a RW for a LW.

 

[Gurglesons]

My guess with Rust is that they prefer him on RW unless they can move a better player than Rust to RW, at that point they're fine with him on LW. Sprong isn't better than Rust, so Rust isn't going to be moved to LW for Sprong like he would be for Guentzel or Brassard.

They should be willing to move Rust to LW for Sprong, but I doubt they'll be willing to. Sprong playing on the 4th line isn't even necessarily a problem, the problem is Sprong getting 3 minutes a night on the 4th line. They need to roll their lineup like they did against Vegas.

The more I try to make a lineup that I like, the more I dislike that the Penguins committed for as long as they did to Hornqvist. Or rather that they committed to Hornqvist like they did and didn't move any RWers. You have 3 solely RWers in Sprong, Kessel and Hornqvist, I don't like that.

I’m surprised they haven’t tried Sprong at LW. He seems to fly down that side a ton. And he’d be able to get his one timer off. I assume part of the issue is we have RH’d shots playing with all LH’d centers right?

 

[Peat]

My guess with Rust is that they prefer him on RW unless they can move a better player than Rust to RW, at that point they're fine with him on LW. Sprong isn't better than Rust, so Rust isn't going to be moved to LW for Sprong like he would be for Guentzel or Brassard.

They should be willing to move Rust to LW for Sprong, but I doubt they'll be willing to. Sprong playing on the 4th line isn't even necessarily a problem, the problem is Sprong getting 3 minutes a night on the 4th line. They need to roll their lineup like they did against Vegas.

The more I try to make a lineup that I like, the more I dislike that the Penguins committed for as long as they did to Hornqvist. Or rather that they committed to Hornqvist like they did and didn't move any RWers.

This sounds about right. My guess is that through the season, as Sully gets more comfortable with Sprong's comfort level (also Simon's), we'll see Rust pushed more to the left.

I am confident that throughout the season the decision to commit to Horny will be justified.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But, they were playing a ton of PK and PP time which influenced that.. I’m not saying you are wrongs.

I’m sure this will change as he gets more comfortable with Sprong. At this time I don’t think it is as much of a red herring as it is the entire bottom six is getting dropped.

Not much we can do but cross fingers. As of right now it doesn't seem Sprong can do anything to earn more time or opportunity, despite what Sullivan tells reporters.

My guess with Rust is that they prefer him on RW unless they can move a better player than Rust to RW, at that point they're fine with him on LW. Sprong isn't better than Rust, so Rust isn't going to be moved to LW for Sprong like he would be for Guentzel or Brassard.

They should be willing to move Rust to LW for Sprong, but I doubt they'll be willing to. Sprong playing on the 4th line isn't even necessarily a problem, the problem is Sprong getting 3 minutes a night on the 4th line. They need to roll their lineup like they did against Vegas.

The more I try to make a lineup that I like, the more I dislike that the Penguins committed for as long as they did to Hornqvist. Or rather that they committed to Hornqvist like they did and didn't move any RWers. You have 3 solely RWers in Sprong, Kessel and Hornqvist, I don't like that. This isn't anything new though, I've been saying since June that they need to move a RW for a LW.

I'd hold off drawing conclusions about who Sprong is or isn't better than until he gets the same opportunities as his competition.

As for Horny, he's a man who always proves his worth in the end. His value here's never been about his regular season scoring at ES.

 

[billybudd]

I already said positive things about Simon and Sprong, but I just want to reiterate that their goal was really impressive. Sprong's part on that play is obvious, but not everyone would have the presence of mind to respond to that (entirely unexpected) pass as quick and as smoothly as Simon did.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I seem to remember that Sprong was on the 4th line was because we had a surplus of good RWs and the coach didn't see Rust as an LW. Well that's out. Meanwhile Sprong has 3 assists in < 9 minutes per while Horny and Rust are sitting at 14 and 16 minutes per and have 1 assist between them.

Seriously. Before he produced in that role, it was "he has to earn his promotion". Now that he's producing in spite of horrible ice time, it's "well, he's producing there so why not keep him there?".

So essentially no matter what Sprong does, the excuse is to keep him there.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Seriously. Before he produced in that role, it was "he has to earn his promotion". Now that he's producing in spite of horrible ice time, it's "well, he's producing there so why not keep him there?".

So essentially no matter what Sprong does, the excuse is to keep him there.

Basically Sprong has to keep outproducing his competition despite getting half the icetime with worse linemates until Sullivan has no choice but to promote him. Good luck kid!

Eagerly awaiting the "he has to work on his consistency" quote when he doesn't put up a point for 2 or 3 games.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Basically Sprong has to keep outproducing his competition despite getting half the icetime with worse linemates until Sullivan has no choice but to promote him. Good luck kid!

But if he's producing that much getting 6 minutes per game on the 4th line, then Sullivan is better off keeping him there and not tamper with success!

-HF logic

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But if he's producing that much getting 6 minutes per game on the 4th line, then Sullivan is better off keeping him there and not tamper with success!

-HF logic

Daniel "Catch 22" Sprong

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it's really clear what some people are doing here: they're being apologists for Sullivan and justifying his decisions because he's the coach. Rather than admit the coach is making a bad decision, they're trying to find ways to justify his decision.

I’m surprised they haven’t tried Sprong at LW. He seems to fly down that side a ton. And he’d be able to get his one timer off. I assume part of the issue is we have RH’d shots playing with all LH’d centers right?

I don't get it either, he seems like a logical guy to be trying on his off-wing too. It also makes more sense in the context of Rust being a RW. The only thing I can guess is that Sullivan already doesn't trust Sprong defensively, so putting him on his off-wing just makes that worse.

This sounds about right. My guess is that through the season, as Sully gets more comfortable with Sprong's comfort level (also Simon's), we'll see Rust pushed more to the left.

I am confident that throughout the season the decision to commit to Horny will be justified.

I'll get back to you on that question in a few months. I like Hornqvist here, but at the same point, you're paying $12 million for 2 top-6 RWers that don't fit well with either of your top-6 centers.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Daniel "Catch 22" Sprong

It's honestly one of the weirdest excuses for not promoting Sprong that I've heard on here.

Sprong literally can't win. If he doesn't produce, that's the excuse for why he doesn't deserve a promotion. But if he does (which he is), then apparently it's okay to keep him on the 4th line because he's producing anyways.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

But if he's producing that much getting 6 minutes per game on the 4th line, then Sullivan is better off keeping him there and not tamper with success!

-HF logic

The arguments are really starting to get out of hand and keep changing depending on what Sprong does.

I mean... "His assists are not great assists, just normal assists and flukes. He needs to work on that before he can get promoted".

We all know what comes next, "He needs to score goals to get promoted" followed by "Yeah sure he scores, but they are not highlight reels. He needs to work on that before he can get promoted".

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think it's really clear what some people are doing here: they're being apologists for Sullivan and justifying his decisions because he's the coach. Rather than admit the coach is making a bad decision, they're trying to find ways to justify his decision.

Honestly, this has been my feeling with a certain segment of the fanbase for a while now. They're not really defending these lineup decisions because they're sensible lineup decisions, they're defending them because Sullivan is making them.

I remember the whole "you can't move Rust to LW just to promote Sprong. That wouldn't be fair to Rust" thing when it was suggested on here to move him to LW. Yet, crickets when Sullivan decides that moving Rust to LW isn't such a bad idea after all.