Blue Jays Discussion: Guys are getting hurt, but Grichuk is mashing.

[Kiwi]

Pitching looks good, but they gotta hit the damn ball.

Between injuries and age you've got to expect some hitting inconsistency but I'd like to see the boys and manager at least try to manufacture a run or two when games are tight

I just couldn't see it unless somebody hit the ball out of the ballpark

 

[Haringoth]

Speaks to how frustrating the losses have been, and how damn good the pitching has been that despite being a projected .500 team nobody is happy at being, well, a .500 team. Nor should we be, it's not unreasonable that with less untimely injuries and better coaching we could be 5-1. As shitty as tonight and in Tampa were, a lot is looking real good.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yama-Gucci real clutch pitching so far by him. Can the Habs borrow him for the play in round?

 

[Welsh Maple Leaf]

Montoya shouldn’t be here next season if this sort of crap keeps happening

 

[Bjindaho]

if you think Joe Kelly shouldnt of been suspended for throwing at someones head then you're a moron or never played baseball in your life. Add to it that Joe Kelly was on the Red Sox team that used Apple Watches to cheat .. Joe Kelly is a p***y and he doesn't ever have to bat so he hides behind his catcher after talking shit. Hes a puke of a human.

Ohh nooo a team cheated in a sport. Toronto used white shirts.. Boston used Apple Watches.. New Yorks unopened letter is so bad it cant be opened. St.Louis was hacking scouting systems. if you think every team in the MLB isnt cheating you're naive. Do you also think your fav hitter from yesteryear wasnt roiding? Shut up about this holier than thou horseshit. But to think it's okay to throw a 90+ MPH ball at someones head? you're officially clown status.

Getting suspended for that is fine. Getting suspended for taunting is less fine. The fact that Mlb added to the suspension for taunting is appalling.

And honestly, Correia should probably have been suspended since his acting like a baby (while ironically being called a baby and a cheater) is actually what caused the dust up.

Kelley should have been tossed immediately after throwing behind Bregman. Not doing so is garbage umpiring. But being a professional requires thicker skin than that.

And Joe Kelley is a POS.

 

[Bjindaho]

I should point out that the problem with what Corriea did is the same crap Bautista used to pull. Instead of addressing a perceived slight when it happened, he attempted to show Kelley up and when he failed, he clearly started complaining.

This is a toxic behavior.

 

[Anthrax442]

Question, how exactly can Montoya learn which pitcher he can and cannot trust in hwhat situation, if he doesnt put them in those positions. Most of these guys are new.

 

[Blue Nate]

It's MONTOYO not Montoya.

Why didn't he get Fisher to steal 2nd to avoid the double play. And why did he direct Espinal to bunt.

And just standing there like a chump while Tellez and Dante get tossed. He will need to grow with this team or he will lose his job.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[Discoverer]

I should point out that the problem with what Corriea did is the same crap Bautista used to pull. Instead of addressing a perceived slight when it happened, he attempted to show Kelley up and when he failed, he clearly started complaining.

This is a toxic behavior.

Getting thrown at on purpose isn't a perceived slight... it's an actual slight.

 

[lipstickjunkie]

Not having Fisher take second is one of the stupidest decisions I've seen. They likely wouldn't have even attempted a throw with Alford cheating down the line at third. What a moron.

 

[Discoverer]

Yamaguchi and Gaviglio: 31.50 ERA in 2 IP
Everyone else: 1.73 ERA in 52 IP

 

[ACC1224]

Sorry if this has been asked but why did Biggio attempt to tag the bag in the 10th last night instead of the player?
Looked to me like an easy out had he reached across or was that just the camera angle?

 

[Kurtz]

Yikes. Yamaguchi has cost us 2 of our 3 losses.

But Espinal's gotta get that bunt down, Fisher has to take second base before Teoscar grounds into that inning-ending double play, and I feel Biggio could've made a better play on that dive to get the out at 2B. Ugh!

Biggio just needed to keep the tag on. It's 2020, we've got instant replay now and can see when the runner is off base by a half inch - there's no excuse not to keep the tag on in today's game. If he does that, they score 1 run instead of 4, and we come up in the 10th with a different approach and a chance to score that guy from 2nd.

 

[theaub]

Sorry if this has been asked but why did Biggio attempt to tag the bag in the 10th last night instead of the player?
Looked to me like an easy out had he reached across or was that just the camera angle?

Agree, he should've dove at the player, not the bag.

Game was moving too fast for him after the strange hop.

 

[ACC1224]

Agree, he should've dove at the player, not the bag.

Game was moving too fast for him after the strange hop.

Thanks.
Wasn't ragging on the player, just noticed while watching and was surprised that Buck didn't say anything.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Question, how exactly can Montoya learn which pitcher he can and cannot trust in hwhat situation, if he doesnt put them in those positions. Most of these guys are new.

For me it's less about that and more about how he's managing who's available. The other day he doubled down on all his good pitchers which completely left us hanging for Roark's game. Thankfully both him and Waguespack pitched about as good as we could expect so it didn't matter, but there were about 2 guys available after them. Our good long arms aren't available because he piggybacked them, which is fine, but if you're going to burn an arm for 3 days by doing that let them face more than 6 hitters. Piggybacking Hatch/Kay and Thornton/Borucki combos burned 3 pen arms for 3 days, but neither game that pair got into the 6th so we had to burn all 4 of our good pen arms both days, which left us short on Tuesday(which I mentioned above) and they still weren't available last night which did cost us that time. It's one thing if you utilize the long man correctly so he gets you into the 7th or 8th in those spots to save the pen. It's another thing completely to burn them for 3 days to only get to 5 and have to burn the rest of the pen too and now you're screwed for a couple days. It would be less annoying if it happened because they were bad and had to be pulled but they've all be great and should have pitched longer.

Sunday Yamaguchi was the only guy available in extras because he only used his piggyback to go 5, then used all of Romano, Dolis, Bass, and Giles to get to extras. Moran too because Giles got hurt.

Monday he used Thornton, and Borucki to get 5 and a third(Cole got an inning in between), and the game went fine because we had enough runs that Romano, Dolis, and Bass could finish it, but he's using all his arms every chance he gets. If we go to extras Yamaguchi might have been the only guy available to pitch

Tuesday we only had Waguespack, Font, Yamaguchi, and Cole available, thankfully it's all we needed. If we went to extra then it would have also probably been Yamaguchi out of necessity as well

Last night only Romano, Bass, Dolis, Gaviglio, and Yamaguchi were available because of the mess above and it finally caught up to us

So that's 4 games in a row, where it seems the plan for any extra inning situation was probably Yamaguchi. Our luck twice it actually happened and we lost both games.

 

[Blitzkrug]

If not for Yamaguchi and Gaviglio this team is at minimum 4-2.

I don't entirely blame them for yesterday since the offense scored 0 runs, but it would be nice if Yamaguchi didn't walk the entire Nats lineup since that game was very much still winnable.

Same goes for the one they blew in Tampa when they were up 1-0. Harder to expect the bullpen to lock it up when there's so little room for error but come the f*** on

Montoyo needs to learn to use the pen. Thus far its proven there's at least some decent arms in there but it seems like they haven't been avaliable when they're actually needed.

 

[Discoverer]

For me it's less about that and more about how he's managing who's available. The other day he doubled down on all his good pitchers which completely left us hanging for Roark's game. Thankfully both him and Waguespack pitched about as good as we could expect so it didn't matter, but there were about 2 guys available after them. Our good long arms aren't available because he piggybacked them, which is fine, but if you're going to burn an arm for 3 days by doing that let them face more than 6 hitters. Piggybacking Hatch/Kay and Thornton/Borucki combos burned 3 pen arms for 3 days, but neither game that pair got into the 6th so we had to burn all 4 of our good pen arms both days, which left us short on Tuesday(which I mentioned above) and they still weren't available last night which did cost us that time. It's one thing if you utilize the long man correctly so he gets you into the 7th or 8th in those spots to save the pen. It's another thing completely to burn them for 3 days to only get to 5 and have to burn the rest of the pen too and now you're screwed for a couple days. It would be less annoying if it happened because they were bad and had to be pulled but they've all be great and should have pitched longer.

Sunday Yamaguchi was the only guy available in extras because he only used his piggyback to go 5, then used all of Romano, Dolis, Bass, and Giles to get to extras. Moran too because Giles got hurt.

Monday he used Thornton, and Borucki to get 5 and a third(Cole got an inning in between), and the game went fine because we had enough runs that Romano, Dolis, and Bass could finish it, but he's using all his arms every chance he gets. If we go to extras Yamaguchi might have been the only guy available to pitch

Tuesday we only had Waguespack, Font, Yamaguchi, and Cole available, thankfully it's all we needed. If we went to extra then it would have also probably been Yamaguchi out of necessity as well

Last night only Romano, Bass, Dolis, Gaviglio, and Yamaguchi were available because of the mess above and it finally caught up to us

So that's 4 games in a row, where it seems the plan for any extra inning situation was probably Yamaguchi. Our luck twice it actually happened and we lost both games.

The use of the piggyback guys has been my biggest concern, too. You have something like 8-9 guys on the roster right now who have been starters their entire careers and you give: Kay 2.2, Hatch 2.1, Waguespack 2.0, Borucki 1.1. Kay and Hatch both stayed under 50 pitches, while Waguespack and Borucki were under 30. None of them were ever really in trouble.

If you treat the guys who are actually capable of going multiple innings like they're in a normal relief role, of course the actual relievers are going to get overworked when they have to cover their innings. I know there's a need to build their arms up, but there's no reason any of those guys needs to be used that way.

I would feel completely different if those four guys had struggled and forced Montoyo's hand, but they all looked excellent. Yet he treated them as if they couldn't be trusted to get more than a handful of outs.

 

[Canada4Gold]

The use of the piggyback guys has been my biggest concern, too. You have something like 8-9 guys on the roster right now who have been starters their entire careers and you give: Kay 2.2, Hatch 2.1, Waguespack 2.0, Borucki 1.1. Kay and Hatch both stayed under 50 pitches, while Waguespack and Borucki were under 30. None of them were ever really in trouble.

If you treat the guys who are actually capable of going multiple innings like they're in a normal relief role, of course the actual relievers are going to get overworked when they have to cover their innings. I know there's a need to build their arms up, but there's no reason any of those guys needs to be used that way.

I would feel completely different if those four guys had struggled and forced Montoyo's hand, but they all looked excellent. Yet he treated them as if they couldn't be trusted to get more than a handful of outs.

I wouldn't even hate the plan of Borucki, Hatch, Waguespack, Kay normal relief role TBH, if that meant they get a day off and are then ready to go again. What they've done is the worst of both worlds. The pitcher barely pitches but now he needs rest like he just threw 4 innings for some reason. I won't blame Montoyo for not having those guys available last night, that's a health thing, but if you know that Borucki facing 6 hitters burns him for the next 2 or 3 games then have him face 9 hitters at least, and if he's not stretched out for that then he should have been. You had plenty of time in the spring to stretch a regular starter out to 3 innings.

 

[canucksfan]

Just to add what has been said, given the expanded rosters and pitchers not being fully stretched out, the starters have gone a decent amount of innings to start the year as well. There's no excuse to have a proper bullpen plan laid out. It would be different if two starters got yanked in the first inning.

It seems like every game a fine line is being walked and if something goes astray to the plan, extra innings or injury then they get screwed.

The situation is extremely frustrating because it may have cost the Jays two wins.

 

[Discoverer]

I wouldn't even hate the plan of Borucki, Hatch, Waguespack, Kay normal relief role TBH, if that meant they get a day off and are then ready to go again. What they've done is the worst of both worlds. The pitcher barely pitches but now he needs rest like he just threw 4 innings for some reason. I won't blame Montoyo for not having those guys available last night, that's a health thing, but if you know that Borucki facing 6 hitters burns him for the next 2 or 3 games then have him face 9 hitters at least, and if he's not stretched out for that then he should have been. You had plenty of time in the spring to stretch a regular starter out to 3 innings.

Perfectly valid option, yep. This in-between role for those guys has completely screwed things up.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Montoya is trying his best no doubt, but he appears to be out of his element. Now that there are real expectations for this club based on the strength of our roster and the expanded playoff format, he still seems to be in the same managerial mode as last season where it was all about player development and positive reinforcement.

In fairness, a 3-3 record is respectable given the quality of competition thus far, but anyone who watched every game could justify that we should have a winning record at the very least.

 

[xxOCZMSxx]

Montoyo went from being irritating to legitimately costing us at least one win. That’s a big jump in six games.

 

[Muston Atthews]