LeBrun: Guentzel: Pens want prospects over picks - Carolina favorite

[BoHorvat 53]

My issue would be with the addition of the 1st. A 2nd, or even conditional 1st, sure. But what makes the Vegas deal more appealing? Curious.

A 1st is just not happening based off what Drance/Dhaliwal wrote for The Athletic, something along the lines of there being little-to-no appetite for trading our 2025 1st round pick (Along with Lekkerimaki, Willander and EP2) and that at the deadline the team could actually look to add draft picks. It was also reported that our main targets are Greenway and Toffoli.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Just don’t see Edmonton going shopping for a rental winger who is going to want a big payday. I’d bet Vegas is the only realistic West team

I can see the Canucks being a realistic option to a point as well. They will probably be after Geuntzel in the off-season already.

Rutherford was the one that gave Geuntzel his contract in Pitt.

 

[Ulf5]

I don't want to move Hoglander. He's trending top six rather than middle six.

I truly don't understand this line of thinking.
Yes Hogs is doing well and finally putting it all together. Having a career year at 23 at .31 goals per game with an unsustainable shooting %. Great to see.
Guentzel has scored under .31 goals per game once in 8 seasons. And he plays the kind of game where he easily is going to perform at or near the same level for at least 5- 6 more years imo.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

Canucks arent giving 2 first round value ( Hoglander, 2025 1st) for Geuntzel plus one of their top 5 prospects (Raty)

If Hoglander is included in the deal it will be

Hoglander, 3rd and 5th for Guentzel

That's a weak offer.

 

[Tact]

Meh Vegas can overpay.

Podkolzin, Raty, and 1st in 25’

Otherwise we’re out - move on to Toffoli.

 

[Love]

I mean, what do you think a 40 goal, PPG winger with a terrific playoff track record goes for?

This isn't asking for a Lekkerimaki or Jarvis level asset. A B+ prospect, a B prospect and a 2nd for a rental Guentzel is entirely reasonable.



I don't think it is. It's entirely aligned with the Vegas deal in my eyes. Hoglander and Brisson are a wash and Korczak is a better prospect than Raty IMO, so the Canucks need to add a 2025 1st but Vegas would be fine with a 2024 2nd.

I’m not sure how Brisson and Hoglander are a wash. It seems to me that Hoglander outperforms him consistently at every level. To each their own but there’s no chance I personally would take Brisson over Hoglander.

Anyway I’m not the arbiter of trade value. Just speaking for myself, I would not offer that for Guentzel and I think the offer is clearly greater than the others you listed. But my opinion has nothing to do with what Allvin and JR think so I have no idea what they would do.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Okay then you won't get him. Good talk.

I like how in a thread stating that there are 6+ teams in on Guentzel, Canucks fans are still in here trying to lowball Penguins fans and acting like they're the only team in on Guentzel.

In what world is Hoglander, 3rd and 5th a low ball offer for JG?

Hoglander is already one of the best 5 on 5 players in the nhl and he is only 23 yrs old while being cost controlled next year at 1.1 mil.

If the Canucks were rebuilding and put Hoglander on the market right now he would easily get a 1st and 2nd round pick in return.

Maybe youre just not that high on Hoglander because you dont follow or watch the Canucks which is fair, but trust me Hoglander is very valuable, proabably just as much or even more so than Lekkerimaki or Willander.

There have been many games this season, including last night, where Hoglander is the Canucks most dangerous forward, more so than the likes of Pettersson and Miller.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's a weak offer.

Canucks fans have been trying to justify weak offers for Guentzel for the last month in the other Guentzel thread. Not surprising it's the same here.

I’m not sure how Brisson and Hoglander are a wash. It seems to me that Hoglander outperforms him consistently at every level. To each their own but there’s no chance I personally would take Brisson over Hoglander.

Anyway I’m not the arbiter of trade value. Just speaking for myself, I would not offer that for Guentzel and I think the offer is clearly greater than the others you listed. But my opinion has nothing to do with what Allvin and JR think so I have no idea what they would do.

I view both as 1st round caliber assets. You can split hairs between them, but I value the two very similarly.

 

[Artemi Panarin]

As a rental, Taylor Hall was traded for Bahl, Merkley, Schnarr, a 2020 1st and a 2021 3rd back in the 2019-2020 season. He was traded mid-way through the year, so I definitely think that benefitted his value, but I also don't know why Guentzel would bring back dramatically less than that.

That Hall return looks roughly the value of a B+ prospect, a B prospect, a 1st and a 3rd. I don't see why Guentzel brings back much less than that. Downgrading the 1st to a 2nd or getting rid of the 3rd seems to be a good way to account for Hall being traded with 40 games left compared to 20 games left for Guentzel.

Why would the 2019 and 2024 trade markets be comparable? Prices are different year after year let alone 5 years later lol.

 

[Empoleon8771]

In what world is Hoglander, 3rd and 5th a low ball offer for JG?

Hoglander is already one of the best 5 on 5 players in the nhl and he is only 23 yrs old while being cost controlled next year at 1.1 mil.

If the Canucks were rebuilding and put Hoglander on the market right now he would easily get a 1st and 2nd round pick in return.

Maybe youre just not that high on Hoglander because you dont follow or watch the Canucks which is fair, but trust me Hoglander is very valuable, proabably just as much or even more so than Lekkerimaki or Willander.

There have been many games this season, including last night, where Hoglander is the Canucks most dangerous forward, more so than the likes of Pettersson and Miller.

In a world where Taylor Hall was traded for Bahl, Merkley, Schnarr, a 1st and a 3rd as a rental a few years ago.

It's not even close. It would be instantly out-bid by any of the other roughly half dozen teams interested in Guentzel. A half a season of Hoglander having a shooting% near 25% doesn't make him this mega valuable player.

Why would the 2019 and 2024 trade markets be comparable? Prices are different year after year let alone 5 years later lol.

Hall is the last comparable player to Guentzel that was traded as a rental. Seems to be fairly common sense to draw a comparison there.

 

[Idiot Stick]

The report was that they wanted 2 prospects over 2 picks, but I think picks would also be included.

Bringing my post from the other Guentzel thread, these are my expectations for a rental Guentzel trade with some of the rumored teams:

-Vegas: Brisson, Korczak and a 2024 2nd
-Carolina: Nadeau, Koivunen and a 2024 2nd
-Vancouver: Hoglander, Raty and a 2025 1st
-Florida: Samoskevich, Sawchyn and a 2025 2nd

literally our last good prospect, hate to see us repeat a Tippet deal

 

[UrbanImpact]

Canucks fans have been trying to justify weak offers for Guentzel for the last month in the other Guentzel thread. Not surprising it's the same here.



I view both as 1st round caliber assets. You can split hairs between them, but I value the two very similarly.

so what youre saying is that Geuntzel will return 2x 1st round value and a top 5 team prospect?

because thats what your asking from for the Canucks..

Hoglander, 1st 2025, Raty??

 

[SomeDude]

In what world is Hoglander, 3rd and 5th a low ball offer for JG?

The real one.

 

[Play]

Hey EMP, this screams Vegas to me

 

[Empoleon8771]

so what youre saying is that Geuntzel will return 2x 1st round value and a top 5 team prospect?

because thats what your asking from for the Canucks..

Hoglander, 1st 2025, Raty??

Yeah, pretty much.

My expectation for a Guentzel return is either 2 1sts and a 2nd or a 1st and 2 2nds in value.

 

[Play]

In what world is Hoglander, 3rd and 5th a low ball offer for JG?

Hoglander is already one of the best 5 on 5 players in the nhl and he is only 23 yrs old while being cost controlled next year at 1.1 mil.

If the Canucks were rebuilding and put Hoglander on the market right now he would easily get a 1st and 2nd round pick in return.

Maybe youre just not that high on Hoglander because you dont follow or watch the Canucks which is fair, but trust me Hoglander is very valuable, proabably just as much or even more so than Lekkerimaki or Willander.

There have been many games this season, including last night, where Hoglander is the Canucks most dangerous forward, more so than the likes of Pettersson and Miller.

It’s a low one.


Next question.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Pens fans are gonna be sucking their thumbs when they see the "poor" return Guetzel fetches. He's a winger who's been stuck to Crosby. Yes he's good but he's not gonna return what you all are dreaming up.

 

[Johnsie19]

The report was that they wanted 2 prospects over 2 picks, but I think picks would also be included.

Bringing my post from the other Guentzel thread, these are my expectations for a rental Guentzel trade with some of the rumored teams:

-Vegas: Brisson, Korczak and a 2024 2nd
-Carolina: Nadeau, Koivunen and a 2024 2nd
-Vancouver: Hoglander, Raty and a 2025 1st
-Florida: Samoskevich, Sawchyn and a 2025 2nd

I'd hesitate to trade Hoglander straight up for Guentzel. Probably wouldnt do it honestly.

 

[kilowatt]

Could see him in LA if Kempe and Arvidsson are out long term, for what it's worth. Blake and Dubas have a few trades together.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pens fans are gonna be sucking their thumbs when they see the "poor" return Guetzel fetches. He's a winger who's been stuck to Crosby. Yes he's good but he's not gonna return what you all are dreaming up.

I like how asking for a 1st and 2 2nds in value is somehow this unrealistic value for a 40 goal scorer.

Canucks fans are insufferable in these threads. Why don't you let other fans talk about what they'd offer for Guentzel instead of flooding every Guentzel thread with lowball offers and page long justifications for those lowball offers?

 

[Hunter368]

Could see the Jets kicking the tires on him, scoring has slowed somewhat compared to earlier in the year.

 

[SI90]

1st + top prospect + another conditional 1st if he re-signs

 

[UrbanImpact]

I think very likely he will be with Vegas.

Canucks already said they arent moving their big pieces ( Hoglander, 1st 2025, lekky, Willander) for a rental.

I think the Canucks called up Podkolzin this week to showcase him.

Canucks likely best offer for Geuntzel is:

Podkolzin, 1st 2025, 3rd round pick

with a high chance of an extension for JG.

 

[SEALBound]

Nikishin for Guentzel

Ya know, there are a couple teams with very productive KHL prospects such as Morozov with Vegas. Question would be if they are interested in coming over. Same with us and Ilyin.

Pens fans are gonna be sucking their thumbs when they see the "poor" return Guetzel fetches. He's a winger who's been stuck to Crosby. Yes he's good but he's not gonna return what you all are dreaming up.

Despite the fact that guys like Giroux go for Tippett, 1st, 3rd. Sure, sure.

 

[newsportsfan123]

The report was that they wanted 2 prospects over 2 picks, but I think picks would also be included.

Bringing my post from the other Guentzel thread, these are my expectations for a rental Guentzel trade with some of the rumored teams:

-Vegas: Brisson, Korczak and a 2024 2nd
-Carolina: Nadeau, Koivunen and a 2024 2nd
-Vancouver: Hoglander, Raty and a 2025 1st
-Florida: Samoskevich, Sawchyn and a 2025 2nd

Carolina gives up two A prospects for a rental but the other teams give up scraps?