Waived: Guenin waived

Bender

Registered User
Sep 25, 2002
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I am seriously worried that this move is to showcase them. One of them might be on his way out in a trade. The return better be great if that is the case.

Question: if this is because one is being traded, considering everything (ceiling, team needs, etc.) which one would you want to keep between the two? I am really on the fence. I like both of them so much for different reasons. I seriously think the Avs need both type of players.

I would keep Zadorov...way too much upside with that guy. I like Bigras too but I still see him as a middle pairing - Jordan Leopold (in his peak) time of d-man, hopefully he turns out even better than that. Still for a lot of years, Leo was a serviceable top-4 guy. Nothing wrong with that.

Not sure what's happening with the Avs but bringing BOTH of them up to play at the same time certainly seems a bit odd. The first thing that came to my mind is 'showcasing' but at the same time, maybe they want to see both in the NHL to make up their own minds, as to which one they'd be willing to give up?

Just spitballin' here. Personally, if it were me I'd keep both.

Just trying to get into the minds of Sakic and Roy. I get a feeling they really, really want Drouin.
 

frog

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Apr 8, 2014
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I would keep Zadorov...way too much upside with that guy. I like Bigras too but I still see him as a middle pairing - Jordan Leopold (in his peak) time of d-man, hopefully he turns out even better than that. Still for a lot of years, Leo was a serviceable top-4 guy. Nothing wrong with that.

Not sure what's happening with the Avs but bringing BOTH of them up to play at the same time certainly seems a bit odd. The first thing that came to my mind is 'showcasing' but at the same time, maybe they want to see both in the NHL to make up their own minds, as to which one they'd be willing to give up?

Just spitballin' here. Personally, if it were me I'd keep both.

Just trying to get into the minds of Sakic and Roy. I get a feeling they really, really want Drouin.

The thing is Sakic and Roy were former players and they know how players think. If bigras was called up a head of zadorov wouldn't you think he'd feel slighted, and vise versa. I think this is probably the reason they both got called up. Roy is a player's coach and keeping the moral up of key players is sometimes just as important.
 

The Mars Volchenkov

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Mar 31, 2002
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I don't understand this showcase thing. It's 2016. Anyone on the internet can watch a game in the AHL, CHL, Europe, anywhere. If a team likes a guy, they don't need him to be showcased. They've probably seen everyone.

The Avs have a 35 year old and Nick Holden holding down the top 2 spots on the left side. Neither of these guys should be going anywhere, and I don't think the Avs are looking at it that way. The defense stunk, and without EJ, was lacking serious talent. With the playoff race, they couldn't afford to do nothing.

Did Nashville bring up Fiala to showcase him? No, they brought him up because they need scoring help, just like the Avs need defensive help.
 
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henchman21

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I don't think it is a showcase situation at all. That really only happens after a player returns from injury. IMO, this is a case of seeing who can help the Avs for the rest of the season. The Avs were trying to limp around as long as they could and keep Bigras and Zadorov down to keep them developing, but with the playoffs close and the EJ injury... they are trying to find someway to keep the defense afloat while seeing how ready these two are.

Roy and Sakic probably both know that Zadorov and Bigras are the 5th and 6th best defensemen in the organization, but it isn't best for them to get limited minutes on a nightly basis. So they tried to avoid this situation as long as possible.
 

Bender

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Sep 25, 2002
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I don't understand this showcase thing. It's 2016. Anyone on the internet can watch a game in the AHL, CHL, Europe, anywhere. If a team likes a guy, they don't need him to be showcased. They've probably seen everyone.

The Avs have a 35 year old and Nick Holden holding down the top 2 spots on the left side. Neither of these guys should be going anywhere, and I don't think the Avs are looking at it that way. The defense stunk, and without EJ, was lacking serious talent. With the playoff race, they couldn't afford to do nothing.

Did Nashville bring up Fiala to showcase him? No, they brought him up because they need scoring help, just like the Avs need defensive help.

You don't think there is a difference between seeing what Zadorov/Bigras can do in the NHL against NHL competition rather than what they've been doing against AHL competition?

It's the reason T.J. Hensick (and a ton of others) isn't an all-star. ;)

Nashville brought up Fiala but they didn't bring up TWO young kids. If the Avs had brought up one OR the other, I wouldn't really think twice about it but bringing them both up at the same time and putting them both in an NHL lineup isn't something you see everyday from any NHL team. You can choose to dismiss it all you want but the timing of the Drouin availability of the past week and half and the timing of this call-up sure can lead to speculation.

We'll see what happens. Like I said, my personal preference is they keep both but I'm not convinced that's their plan.
 

Freudian

Clearly deranged
Jul 3, 2003
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Praising Roy for being on the ball waiving him, after playing Guenin for 85% of games during 2.5 years seems a bit odd. It took pretty much everyone else at most a couple of months to figure out Nate Guenin shouldn't play in the NHL.

We're not out of the woods yet. Roy has gone back to Guenin over and over again after the short Guenin-free breathing holes we've had over the years. The only known cure is not having him under contract.
 

AvsRobin

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Aug 10, 2010
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I don't understand this showcase thing. It's 2016. Anyone on the internet can watch a game in the AHL, CHL, Europe, anywhere. If a team likes a guy, they don't need him to be showcased. They've probably seen everyone.

The Avs have a 35 year old and Nick Holden holding down the top 2 spots on the left side. Neither of these guys should be going anywhere, and I don't think the Avs are looking at it that way. The defense stunk, and without EJ, was lacking serious talent. With the playoff race, they couldn't afford to do nothing.

Did Nashville bring up Fiala to showcase him? No, they brought him up because they need scoring help, just like the Avs need defensive help.

To me showcasing is more about putting someone in the best possible role to get that player some points and good stats if you are planning on shopping him.
 

AllAboutAvs

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You don't think there is a difference between seeing what Zadorov/Bigras can do in the NHL against NHL competition rather than what they've been doing against AHL competition?

It's the reason T.J. Hensick (and a ton of others) isn't an all-star. ;)

Nashville brought up Fiala but they didn't bring up TWO young kids. If the Avs had brought up one OR the other, I wouldn't really think twice about it but bringing them both up at the same time and putting them both in an NHL lineup isn't something you see everyday from any NHL team. You can choose to dismiss it all you want but the timing of the Drouin availability of the past week and half and the timing of this call-up sure can lead to speculation.

We'll see what happens. Like I said, my personal preference is they keep both but I'm not convinced that's their plan.
As I said before, this is exactly my thinking as well. If they wanted to see what they have in these two they would have brought them up one at the time and keeping them both if they were happy with them. Again with the way Roy and Sakic have dealt with call ups so far this is very out of character. Now they might be trying to see if together they can adequately replace Barrie and the latter is the one on the block. That I can maybe see happening but bringing them both up at the same time for help I have a big problem believing. They shouldn't be that desperate because of two bad games especially after the way they have played for the last 1.5 month.
 

The Mars Volchenkov

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You don't think there is a difference between seeing what Zadorov/Bigras can do in the NHL against NHL competition rather than what they've been doing against AHL competition?

It's the reason T.J. Hensick (and a ton of others) isn't an all-star. ;)

Nashville brought up Fiala but they didn't bring up TWO young kids. If the Avs had brought up one OR the other, I wouldn't really think twice about it but bringing them both up at the same time and putting them both in an NHL lineup isn't something you see everyday from any NHL team. You can choose to dismiss it all you want but the timing of the Drouin availability of the past week and half and the timing of this call-up sure can lead to speculation.

We'll see what happens. Like I said, my personal preference is they keep both but I'm not convinced that's their plan.
So the Avs might have a deal worked out but it's dependent on if Zadorov or Bigras look good for a game or two, otherwise Tampa might back out? That's what makes no sense to me. I don't believe an NHL team is going to base everything off a very small sample size of NHL games when they've probably seen them play a ton over the last few years. If a 20 year old defenseman struggles (big surprise), they're suddenly going to just back out? I don't buy it at all.

The Avs were playing THREE waiver wire defensemen in the lineup, and were losing games that could have put them squarely in a playoff position. They couldn't afford to mess around anymore, and I don't think they'd mess around with two 20 year olds in the lineup just so they can showcase them for a trade. The games are far too important for that.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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I don't understand this showcase thing. It's 2016. Anyone on the internet can watch a game in the AHL, CHL, Europe, anywhere. If a team likes a guy, they don't need him to be showcased. They've probably seen everyone.

The Avs have a 35 year old and Nick Holden holding down the top 2 spots on the left side. Neither of these guys should be going anywhere, and I don't think the Avs are looking at it that way. The defense stunk, and without EJ, was lacking serious talent. With the playoff race, they couldn't afford to do nothing.

Did Nashville bring up Fiala to showcase him? No, they brought him up because they need scoring help, just like the Avs need defensive help.

You can't see for sure if a prospect is NHL ready by watching him in the AHL, CHL, Europe, etc.
 

NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS

Registered User
Feb 28, 2006
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For all the hate Guenin has gotten for being a rotten player, he didn't put a gun to Roy's head and make Roy play him. Guenin is a terrible hockey player who was asked to be an NHL regular and I'm sure played to the utmost of his abilities.

Props to Guenin for carving out a great NHL career. It's a testament to all of us mediocre folk out there. One can reach the pinnacle of their profession through sterling attendance and having a good attitude. :)
 

The Mars Volchenkov

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You can't see for sure if a prospect is NHL ready by watching him in the AHL, CHL, Europe, etc.
Of course not, but what's the point of having scouts in the AHL then? Are they really going to change their opinion on a 20 year old defenseman just based off a few NHL games? As I mentioned before, there are only 3 defensemen in the NHL younger than Zadorov and Bigras. No smart team is going to change their opinion on two guys that young based off a few games, and the Avs aren't going to risk losing valuable points just so they can showcase a couple of guys.
 

tigervixxxen

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Jul 7, 2013
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The fact that they were going to bring Rantanen up as well refutes the theory. They need to see what these guys can do at the NHL level to make decisions but they aren't going to trade 19/20 year olds that are the future of their franchise after seeing a few games either. IF one of them becomes expendable in the future them sell them then, not when they are on the verge of becoming something.
 

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