Friedman: Gudbranson Trade Interest?

[member 290103]

MDZ hasn't been our issue and is playing like a solid #5 on a #5 salary. He has even been a decent #4 on nights. Pouliot has been a surprise and definitely a top 6 dman showing potential to be top 4. Can't complain about either of them, both would be fine as a partner for OJ. OJ also has experience playing his off wing.

Canucks fan here. MDZ has been ok some nights and horrendous others. He's an ok bottom pairing d-man, but if you use him in another capacity, he's garbage.

Pouliot has no top 4 potential. Cmon now. He's looked ok for a handful of games. In others, he's been bad. He was just healthy scratched last game.

 

[Soups On]

Can you tell me what so much more that Stecher does?

Yes Stecher is way better at moving the puck. But Stecher has 1 more point than Gudbranson. Gudbranson has way more hits and blocked shots. Better plus/minus. Stecher doesn't play any special teams. How valuable can you be if your coach doesnt trust you on any special teams? Gudbranson is more valuable.

Stecher remind me of a smaller version of Ballard. Can skate the puck up ice but doesn't have the hockey sense to make a good play with it. Stecher doesn't produce enough offense to make up for the lack of size.

I'm not denying that Stecher is having a tough season. But beyond Stecher being a significantly better puck mover, he actually has a breakout pass and the ability to get his shot on net as advertised last season. He has better defensive zone IQ than Gudbranson as he has much more defensive zone exits with possession and without.

Again, the points haven't come and he's been disappointing, but in terms of raw talent, he offers more than Gudbranson. He's also cheaper and has more room to grow seeing as he's 23(?) and it's his second season.

I don't have the stats with me as I'm on my phone but it's been well illustrated that Gudbranson has been shit at defense this season. The system has been the worst for him.

Also, +/- really shouldn't be a reason why Gudbranson is "better"...

I don't recall their PK stats but I haven't hated Gudbranson there that much. With that said, he's been nothing special there.

Regarding hits, the league is very inconsistent in tracking them. But if that's important to you, you must love Del Zotto because according to Fox sports, he has 115 hits to Gudbranson's 70. Even with that said, Gudbranson has not been this physical force that was advertised and if you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Tryamkin]

Canucks should keep Gudbanson $4x4 years.

He already rejected an offer in the ballpark of 4M.

 

[Tryamkin]

If we're looking at comparable stay-at-home, zero-offense defencemen who have gotten FA deals or re-signed as pending UFAs in recent years, it's really not out of the realm of possibility.

A few recent comparables:

• Marc Staal - $5.7M
• Brooks Orpik - $5.5M
• Marc Methot - $4.9M
• Karl Alzner - $4.625M
• Brendan Smith - $4.35M
• Jonathan Eriksson - $4.25M
• Alexei Emelin - $4.1M
• Nik Hjalmarsson - $4.1M

Nik Hjalmarsson was one of the best defensive players in the league at that point, and still is great defensively. You can’t compare him to that. The others I agree with though.

 

[Cogburn]

Gauthier for Gudbranson?

 

[JuniorNelson]

If Jim Benning can get a decent return he should be considering all offers.

I think he likes Gudbranson in the context of next season. Remember, they wanted playoffs and iced a pretty decent squad early on. Gudbranson makes more sense on a playoff team.

 

[Tom Hanks]

He already rejected an offer in the ballpark of 4M.

He did, why? He’s terrible. Anyone who offers him that type of money is terrible too.

 

[Masked Superstar]

Always liked Gubranson. At this point is a upgrade of Polak ufortunaly. 3 years ago I offered Kessel for Gubranson and a 1st which would have been that kid you tradwd to Phoenix that played for Kingston. Today I think Bracco is a fair trade.

 

[Canucks1096]

I'm not denying that Stecher is having a tough season. But beyond Stecher being a significantly better puck mover, he actually has a breakout pass and the ability to get his shot on net as advertised last season. He has better defensive zone IQ than Gudbranson as he has much more defensive zone exits with possession and without.

Again, the points haven't come and he's been disappointing, but in terms of raw talent, he offers more than Gudbranson. He's also cheaper and has more room to grow seeing as he's 23(?) and it's his second season.

I don't have the stats with me as I'm on my phone but it's been well illustrated that Gudbranson has been **** at defense this season. The system has been the worst for him.

Also, +/- really shouldn't be a reason why Gudbranson is "better"...

I don't recall their PK stats but I haven't hated Gudbranson there that much. With that said, he's been nothing special there.

Regarding hits, the league is very inconsistent in tracking them. But if that's important to you, you must love Del Zotto because according to Fox sports, he has 115 hits to Gudbranson's 70. Even with that said, Gudbranson has not been this physical force that was advertised and if you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Is Gudbranson a better hitter than Stecher? Yes or No?

Is Gudbranson a better shot blocker yes or No?

You don't recall Stecher PK stats because he hardly plays on the PK. He only play PK when they are a lot of injuries. When Canucks D healthy he hardly get any mins at all on the PK.

I like results. everything you talked about getting shot on net. Moving puck and making first pass. Sure he has that skill but it is not good enough make much of an impact or any. The stats don't lie.

I admit plus minus can he a little misleading but you are telling me Gudbranson is not great and Stecher so great at moving the puck but the goal forward and goal against difference is better for Gudbranson

Sorry Stecher doesn't offer more than Gudbranson. When a defensemen doesn't play hardly mins on special teams. There not that valuable. 5-9 defensemen that doesnt have enough hockey sense to put up points doesnt make up for the size. I am not how many games you watch but Stecher loses a lot battles along the boards. If Stecher wasn't right side Defensemen. He probably would of been healthy scratch for a few games as well

I think Stecher skating ability is tricking you into thinking that Stecher is a better defensmen that he really is. There is a reason why Stecher is 7th in ice time for all Canucks defensemen.

 

[Blueangel1891]

I still contend that the Canucks are better off signing Gudbranson to a long term deal, while dealing Hutton for another RHD.

With Juolevi, Edler, and a returing Tryamkin (will happen at some point btw), the Canucks have enough depth on the left side as far as Top 4 LHD's go (both short term and long term). Guys like Pouliot, Del Zotto, etc, give the Canucks some depth on that side.

The right side however is a tire fire/gong show. Outside of Tanev, we have no one there. Biega and Stecher are both 7th defenseman, while Guds is a solid 3rd pairing guy with a unique skill set (physicality, intangibles, etc.).

Sign Gudbranson long term, and trade Hutton for another RHD. Voila - the Canucks have decent depth on both sides.

At the 2018 draft, the Canucks then draft a RHD. When said RHD develops, you can then move Tanev.

Del Zotto and Stecher get punted off a cliff and into the sea (for picks).

Gudbranson is worse than Biega and Stecher, for double the price

Trade that walking tree

 

[Horse McHindu]

Gudbranson is worse than Biega and Stecher, for double the price

Trade that walking tree

If he’s really that bad, then fine, trade him, but I still think the Canucks need to trade one of their LD’s (Hutton) for a RHD.

The Canucks are extremely anemic on that right side. Biega and Stecher are barely 3rd pair caliber d-men, and if you move Guds, you risk having one of those guys on your top 4.....two if Tanev goes down.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I'll take Gudbs on Habs blueline.

Habs aren’t buyers. Makes more sense to sign him in the summer, but then you have Alzner and Gudbranson signed long term making big bucks, so perhaps that doesn’t make sense either.

Either way, I’m sure he won’t be dealt to the Habs.

 

[PunkRockLocke]

I still contend that the Canucks are better off signing Gudbranson to a long term deal, while dealing Hutton for another RHD.

With Juolevi, Edler, and a returing Tryamkin (will happen at some point btw), the Canucks have enough depth on the left side as far as Top 4 LHD's go (both short term and long term). Guys like Pouliot, Del Zotto, etc, give the Canucks some depth on that side.

The right side however is a tire fire/gong show. Outside of Tanev, we have no one there. Biega and Stecher are both 7th defenseman, while Guds is a solid 3rd pairing guy with a unique skill set (physicality, intangibles, etc.).

Sign Gudbranson long term, and trade Hutton for another RHD. Voila - the Canucks have decent depth on both sides.

At the 2018 draft, the Canucks then draft a RHD. When said RHD develops, you can then move Tanev.

Del Zotto and Stecher get punted off a cliff and into the sea (for picks).

I agree, please trade Hutton now. For anything you can get

 

[PunkRockLocke]

than you really need to reevaluate your "pro" scouting. Gudbranson has those great intangibles and an overrated physical game that GMs value

Guess what - you're not an NHL GM. NHL GM's are NHL GM's - for a reason.

Your opinion is just that. Not worth paying for.

 

[Horse McHindu]

You cant baby a goalie. He needs to see puck. If he's good, his save percentage will be good too even if his GAA is high

You shouldn’t “baby” a goalie but you can’t throw him to the wolves either by playing him behind an absolutely dreadful defense. That’s how you ruin a guy’s confidence. That’s what the Oilers did with Devan Dubnyk back in the day.

Same thing as Juolevi. If he’s playing next season, give him optimal support.

 

[PunkRockLocke]

You shouldn’t “baby” a goalie but you can’t throw him to the wolves either by playing him behind an absolutely dreadful defense. That’s how you ruin a guy’s confidence. That’s what the Oilers did with Devan Dubnyk back in the day.

Same thing as Juolevi. If he’s playing next season, give him optimal support.

I agree. Too many people here think 'rebuilding' and 'tanking' should be synonymous. They are not, and should not be.

You need to maintain a respectable culture. If you trade away all of your veteran NHL players, you'll end up with a losing culture; circa Edmonton 2018.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I agree. Too many people here think 'rebuilding' and 'tanking' should be synonymous. They are not, and should not be.

You need to maintain a respectable culture. If you trade away all of your veteran NHL players, you'll end up with a losing culture circa Edmonton 2018.

I think a number of younger fans (be it on here, other sites, offline, etc.) get excited when they play NHL for their PS4’s and get all “giddy” when their collection of 4.5 green star prospects turn into a bunch of Geordie Howe’s 2-3 seasons later.

I think that’s why many of the younger fans are so oblivious to the concept of “culture” and “mentor ship” and building up prospects slowly so that they aren’t thrown to the wolves in roles they are too green for.

Some of these fans are arrogant. They believe that becaus they’ve successfully built a team from scratch on their NHL PlayStation or their Fantasy Hockey League’s, that they are smarter than professional GM’s.

When you cite examples to them how difficult rebuilding really and truly is, and what it truly entails, they simply cannot fathom the concept.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I agree, please trade Hutton now. For anything you can get

Hutton should be a decent bargaining chip. He’s young, inexpensive, and can transition the puck fairly well. With Edler, Del Zotto, Pouliot, Juolevi, Brisebois, and Tryamkin (who very likely will return one day), the Canucks appear to be decent on the left side.

That right side though.......that’s some scary shit. I know the “analytics” crowd are down on Gudbranson, but he brings far more to the table than Stecher. Guds is the type of guy that can protect Juolevi out there while Juolevi is a kid and is still growing into his frame. Last thing you want is team taking liberties with Juolevi if Juolevi starts developing rapidly. That’s where a guy like Guds comes in.

You need that physical presence back there.

If you trade or don’t sign Guds, this team is without any form of toughness. As Boeser and Juolevi continue to progress in their development, more and more “rats” will take liberties with them IF we don’t have anyone to protect them.

 

[Inflict]

I don't see Gudbranson being anything more than a 7th d-man for a contender or perhaps an injury replacement on the bottom pairing if a team is hurting. In which case the return will likely be extremely low. If the Canucks can get a 3rd round pick or more, they should take it and run. He's not good on a Canucks team who is on the outside looking in and can be easily replaced by someone like Wiercioch who they signed in the summer and is playing for the Comets currently (I think).

 

[Arcade Fire]

Sounds like a player the Habs will pick up at the deadline.

 

[clunk]

That's all well and good, guys... But we have our fair share of 'vets' and are still on track to be a bottom 5 team 3 years in a row. Aka a 'losing culture'. So Benning and Linden have utterly failed at their jobs trying to bring a 'winning culture' to this team.

Maybe if we actually had a decent GM, he could correctly 'insulate' our rookies... But Sam Gagners, Del Zottos, Burmistrovs, Sutters, Erikssons, Gudbransons do nothing to 'insulate' our rookies or bring a 'winning' culture.

The only vet I've liked that they've brought in to 'insulate' our rookies has been Vanek, due to his chemistry with Boeser. Everyone else has been a failure.

So what now?

 

[brokenhole]

I think a number of younger fans (be it on here, other sites, offline, etc.) get excited when they play NHL for their PS4’s and get all “giddy” when their collection of 4.5 green star prospects turn into a bunch of Geordie Howe’s 2-3 seasons later.

I think that’s why many of the younger fans are so oblivious to the concept of “culture” and “mentor ship” and building up prospects slowly so that they aren’t thrown to the wolves in roles they are too green for.

Some of these fans are arrogant. They believe that becaus they’ve successfully built a team from scratch on their NHL PlayStation or their Fantasy Hockey League’s, that they are smarter than professional GM’s.

When you cite examples to them how difficult rebuilding really and truly is, and what it truly entails, they simply cannot fathom the concept.

Really..lol. Go back and look at your trade proposals, the Canuck's wouldn't have a 1st round pick for the next 5yrs if you were the GM, a team full of Phanuef's Kane's and a bunch of overpriced crap.

 

[Soups On]

Guess what - you're not an NHL GM. NHL GM's are NHL GM's - for a reason.

Your opinion is just that. Not worth paying for.

Lol. Everyone stop discussing, we're not GMs. Thank you for reminding me that I'm not a GM, I forgot.

Do you think Bergevin is a good GM? Chiarelli?

Is Gudbranson a better hitter than Stecher? Yes or No?

Is Gudbranson a better shot blocker yes or No?

You don't recall Stecher PK stats because he hardly plays on the PK. He only play PK when they are a lot of injuries. When Canucks D healthy he hardly get any mins at all on the PK.

I like results. everything you talked about getting shot on net. Moving puck and making first pass. Sure he has that skill but it is not good enough make much of an impact or any. The stats don't lie.

I admit plus minus can he a little misleading but you are telling me Gudbranson is not great and Stecher so great at moving the puck but the goal forward and goal against difference is better for Gudbranson

Sorry Stecher doesn't offer more than Gudbranson. When a defensemen doesn't play hardly mins on special teams. There not that valuable. 5-9 defensemen that doesnt have enough hockey sense to put up points doesnt make up for the size. I am not how many games you watch but Stecher loses a lot battles along the boards. If Stecher wasn't right side Defensemen. He probably would of been healthy scratch for a few games as well

I think Stecher skating ability is tricking you into thinking that Stecher is a better defensmen that he really is. There is a reason why Stecher is 7th in ice time for all Canucks defensemen.

Yes, Gudbranson is a "better" hitter but that doesn't make him a better player than Stecher.
Maybe Gudbranson is a better shot blocker because he loses the puck all the time and is forced to block shots? Do you think Kris Russell is good? Cause he blocks a ton of shots... But he also gets destroyed in terms of possession and we'll, if the pucks always in your end, you're more likely to get scored on and not score. Fascinating. Do you think Edler is better than Tanev because he hits more and plays PP and PK? If you think yes, then you and I value different things in players.

Let me reiterate: I know Stecher has struggled this year. But despite this, I believe he has more to offer to the Canucks than Gudbranson now and going forward.

 

[Soups On]

Hutton should be a decent bargaining chip. He’s young, inexpensive, and can transition the puck fairly well. With Edler, Del Zotto, Pouliot, Juolevi, Brisebois, and Tryamkin (who very likely will return one day), the Canucks appear to be decent on the left side.

That right side though.......that’s some scary ****. I know the “analytics” crowd are down on Gudbranson, but he brings far more to the table than Stecher. Guds is the type of guy that can protect Juolevi out there while Juolevi is a kid and is still growing into his frame. Last thing you want is team taking liberties with Juolevi if Juolevi starts developing rapidly. That’s where a guy like Guds comes in.

You need that physical presence back there.

If you trade or don’t sign Guds, this team is without any form of toughness. As Boeser and Juolevi continue to progress in their development, more and more “rats” will take liberties with them IF we don’t have anyone to protect them.

Toughness and physicality can be found at a much cheaper price than what Gudbranson will ask for. If other GMs value what Gudbranson brings to the table and he's clearly not a fit for the Canucks' system, why not sell him and sign cheaper players that are physical and have those intangibles (and don't handle the puck like a grenade).

 

[lawrence]

Went from “we wouldn’t take him for free”to a bid war now. Nice.

That said he will make sense on a playoff team especially in the west. He’s good to be out there for toughness and you don’t have to purposely alter a scoring line just to have a tough guy out there on the ice to protect star players.

The 4 million dollar rumour is news to me.