Value of: Gudas/Simmonds package deal to Toronto

[x DeCruze]

Well from what I have seen of him , I don't think he moves the needle much for Toronto, so pass. They need to build a trade for a player that can actually put this team over the top and that just isn't Gudas. Feel free to disagree, but don't expect Toronto to be looking to acquire him, or any other team to pay a king's ransom for him.

That's fine I don't want to move him. Simmonds on the other hand, yes I'd want them to move him.

 

[NoName]

That's fine I don't want to move him. Simmonds on the other hand, yes I'd want them to move him.

He has value, but given his past goal-scoring ability even if this season has been a bit of a misadventure but I imagine the ask from Philly is probably higher than what Toronto is willing to pay, especially when they should be hoarding those assets to trade for the defender they need. Simmons grit would be nice, but they already have lots of scoring so he is a bit redundant. I think the Flyers can find better trade partners for him then the Leafs.

I imagine Philly can get a good return for him at the deadline as a rental.

 

[razkaz]

Simmonds
Gudas

For

Johnsson
Brown
2019 1st
+what would it take?

 

[Starat327]

Not washed up at all at 28, late prime. I just meant that at his age, he pretty much is the player he is. If he were say 21, then you could also sell him for way more based on potential as well as current output.

For entertainment you can always watch the Flyers lose, and that defense play like a sieve, that can be fun

So youre judging a players performance after admitting to watching two games.

Kapanen didnt put up any points in that game against the flyers. Must not be nearly as good as i keep hearing.

 

[NoName]

So youre judging a players performance after admitting to watching two games.

Kapanen didnt put up any points in that game against the flyers. Must not be nearly as good as i keep hearing.

Right, except you can also judge a player based on their production numbers for the season and their career, as well as advanced stats and the like. There is this thing called the internet, where all this info is located. Since most of us do not watch every single game every player in the league plays, we all have to rely on the recorded stats a lot when evaluating a player. The "eye-test" is of limited use for most of us because we don't have the time to watch all the games played in the NHL... which is exactly what I pointed out in the previous comment where I shamefully admit to have only watched two complete games of a depth player on a team who I don't particularly follow.

 

[Starat327]

Right, except you can also judge a player based on their production numbers for the season and their career, as well as advanced stats and the like. There is this thing called the internet, where all this info is located. Since most of us do not watch every single game every player in the league plays, we all have to rely on the recorded stats a lot when evaluating a player. The "eye-test" is of limited use for most of us because we don't have the time to watch all the games played in the NHL... which is exactly what I pointed out in the previous comment where I shamefully admit to have only watched two complete games of a depth player on a team who I don't particularly follow.

You should probably use that thing you call the internet to check Gudas advanced stats then before making an uneducated post.

 

[NoName]

You should probably use that thing you call the internet to check Gudas advanced stats then before making an uneducated post.

Those stats do not look particularly brilliant the past couple seasons:
Radko Gudas NHL Advanced Statistics (All) | Hockey-Reference.com

Not good Corsi or Fenwick and a PDO this season that says his production is about where it should be. His rate metrics also aren't especially impressive.
To be fair, his even strength possession numbers are better than his all-circumstances totals, but still, he is not exactly an advanced stats darling.

Again, there is nothing on that page that leads me to think that in reality he has the value you seem to ascribe to him or that I would be especially thrilled to see him in the Leafs top-4, not for the price that is being bandied about on this thread. He is ideally a 3rd pairing guy... which is something the Leafs already have plenty of.

Perhaps before you should be the one taking a deeper look at the hard numbers in the future, at least for the players on the team you actually follow.

 

[The Madrigal]

Gudas is not a top four defenseman. That's actually kind of silly. Really good third pairing guy.

 

[Starat327]

Gudas is not a top four defenseman. That's actually kind of silly. Really good third pairing guy.

You'll have to forgive me if i dont trust the talent evaluation of a guy who wanted to trade Couturier for Anthony Duclair.

 

[Tripod]

Simmonds
Gudas

For

Johnsson
Brown
2019 1st
+what would it take?

adding more quantity does nothing for Philly. If a team wants both, they want a good return in 1 guy. From the Leafs, that is Kapanen. Think that's too much, no problem. Don't trade for both.

 

[DougGilmour93]

adding more quantity does nothing for Philly. If a team wants both, they want a good return in 1 guy. From the Leafs, that is Kapanen. Think that's too much, no problem. Don't trade for both.

Kapanen won’t be involved. Not for a rental and a bottom pairing dman.

If Kapanen was involved, it would be in a deal to land a dman like Pietrangelo/Parayko.

 

[Tripod]

Kapanen won’t be involved. Not for a rental and a bottom pairing dman.

If Kapanen was involved, it would be in a deal to land a dman like Pietrangelo/Parayko.

Except Gudas is a middle pairing Dman.

But I 100% wanting to go after a bigger fish. I think they should too. But it will be Kap++. Or Nylander.

 

[The Madrigal]

You'll have to forgive me if i dont trust the talent evaluation of a guy who wanted to trade Couturier for Anthony Duclair.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't trust the talent evaluation of a guy who consistently gets his facts mixed up since the Flyers were also getting a first round pick in the deal. You are in a desperate need of some new material homie.

 

[DougGilmour93]

Except Gudas is a middle pairing Dman.

But I 100% wanting to go after a bigger fish. I think they should too. But it will be Kap++. Or Nylander.

Double post

 

[DougGilmour93]

I’d prefer to deal Nylander.
I doubt Dubas does though.

....

 

[DougGilmour93]

Except Gudas is a middle pairing Dman.

But I 100% wanting to go after a bigger fish. I think they should too. But it will be Kap++. Or Nylander.

I’d prefer to deal Nylander.
I doubt Dubas does though.​

I also doubt he wants to deal Kapanen. He’s become to important to our club.
Methinks Dubas will peddle the likes of Johnsson, Brown, Ennis, Zaitsev, Marincin, Holl, draft picks and any prospects not named Sandin or Scott.

 

[Sasso09]

Why would Toronto give up a first?!?

Because they would absolutely have to. Toronto's 1st is worth a bit more than Gudas. Significantly less than Simmonds. Toronto will be picking late in the 1st.


Kapanen
Brown
3rd

For

Simmonds
Gudas
2nd

 

[Tripod]

I’d prefer to deal Nylander.
I doubt Dubas does though.​

I also doubt he wants to deal Kapanen. He’s become to important to our club.
Methinks Dubas will peddle the likes of Johnsson, Brown, Ennis, Zaitsev, Marincin, Holl, draft picks and any prospects not named Sandin or Scott.

And that's fine to want that. But none of that gets you into that Parayko type tier of guy(1st pairing).

 

[DougGilmour93]

Because they would absolutely have to. Toronto's 1st is worth a bit more than Gudas. Significantly less than Simmonds. Toronto will be picking late in the 1st.


Kapanen
Brown
3rd

For

Simmonds
Gudas
2nd

Brutal for the Leafs.

 

[Sasso09]

Brutal.

That deal favors Toronto, you're getting a discount

 

[DougGilmour93]

And that's fine to want that. But none of that gets you into that Parayko type tier of guy(1st pairing).

You could be right, but...

A package of Johnsson + Liljegren and a 1st is nothing to scoff about.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Because they would absolutely have to. Toronto's 1st is worth a bit more than Gudas. Significantly less than Simmonds. Toronto will be picking late in the 1st.


Kapanen
Brown
3rd

For

Simmonds
Gudas
2nd

cool, that's terrible. Leafs aren't interested in getting worse this season & going forward

 

[Sasso09]

Kapanen is out producing Simmonds

Simmonds is easily better

 

[DougGilmour93]

That deal favors Toronto, you're getting a discount

No way does it favour the Leafs.
Kapanen does everything for us. Brown is a workhorse.
Everyone seems to know Simmonds is on the decline and Gudas is a bottom pairing dman that could be had for no more than a 2nd.

 

[DougGilmour93]

Simmonds is easily better

Kapanen is 8yrs younger and is currently out performing him.
Logic?