World Cup: Group E: Serbia vs. Switzerland, 6/22/2018

[Live in the Now]

I fully know how the 'experience' is, I've lived in a few different countries myself. I don't tell anyone how to feel, I merely expect a level of behavior when you represent a country though. Don't drag your personal vendettas, ethnic hatreds, tribal grudges into that role. Keep that locked up inside or go represent your old country.

I don't think it's possible to keep it locked up inside when the team you're playing against is from a country that killed thousands of people in the country you were born in. During your lifetime at that.

If they wanted to play for Albania or Kosovo they would have, so it isn't about that either. IMO anyway. Btw the entire Swiss coaching staff is made up of people from the former Yugoslavia, so there's really, massively something there. They can say whatever they want. They were all feeling it and can't deny it. Obviously they are proud to rep Switzerland, but if they say they didn't want to give extra in this game, they'd be lying. For some it will have been the most important game they've ever played. Dead seriously. That's what spurred on their comeback.

 

[kovacro]

Serbia (called FR Yugoslavia then) and Croatia faced off during EURO 2000 qualifiers with both games ending in draws. No travelling fans were permitted during either game.

Not sure how things would work out today should they meet in future qualifying or nations league cycles.

 

[Live in the Now]

Serbia (called FR Yugoslavia then) and Croatia faced off during EURO 2000 qualifiers with both games ending in draws. No travelling fans were permitted during either game.

Not sure how things would work out today should they meet in future qualifying or nations league cycles.

I think they're going to meet in an actual tournament considering the way they've expanded it, in combination with both teams having many good players.

It's going to be a f***ing disaster of epic proportions.

 

[kovacro]

I think they're going to meet in an actual tournament considering the way they've expanded it, in combination with both teams having many good players.

It's going to be a ****ing disaster of epic proportions.

I honestly don’t know. They have faced off in other sports over the last several years, basketball, handball, water polo, maybe Davis Cup? and I don’t recall any crazy incidents taking place but I’m sure the posters who actually reside in those countries could chime in to comment.

I’m on the other side of the pond.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Why the **** shouldn't the represent the country they grew up- & live in? Because bigots & xenophobes wish that they were "more Swiss"?

...as if "swiss" identity itself isn't just a hodgepodge of "other" cultures already...

Oh yeah because the 'progressive' view is to hang onto all your hatred and lust for revenge forever. That's a great lesson for future generations. The Balkans Wars were a complex mess and we'd be all better off if people looked to the future instead of the past. But, no, let's make excuses for Albanian jingoism because uh I guess those news clips in the 90s made them look like the 'good guys'.

 

[Live in the Now]

I honestly don’t know. They have faced off in other sports over the last several years, basketball, handball, water polo and I don’t recall any crazy incidents taking place but I’m sure the posters who actually reside in those countries could chime in to comment.

I’m on the other side of the pond.

They played in 2013. There were chants about killing Serbs and hundreds/thousands of riot police at the stadium. Now consider the part where it's inevitably going to be in a neutral country where the police aren't as familiar with the fans, leading to a situation like in Marseille when Russia and England played. Where the people who travel to these games are usually the most hardcore of nationalists. Full out disaster zone.

 

[Live in the Now]

Oh yeah because the 'progressive' view is to hang onto all your hatred and lust for revenge forever. That's a great lesson for future generations. The Balkans Wars were a complex mess and we'd be all better off if people looked to the future instead of the past. But, no, let's make excuses for Albanian jingoism because uh I guess those news clips in the 90s made them look like the 'good guys'.

Like as soon as you hear and see that, even if you decided to let go of your hatred, it's all going to come flooding back.

 

[Natey]

It's impossible for those Swiss players to not have those feelings. It's not like that **** was way in the past, it happened when they were kids. The Serbs of the past attempted to ethnically cleanse the region, so they had to leave.

I don't think it's anything against current Serb leaders, it's just the reality that something happened to these guys, it affected their community in Switzerland, and it had a gigantic impact on their life.

Serbia-Croatia or Serbia-Bosnia I can't even imagine what that kind of game will be like, but it's inevitable it's going to happen in the Euros. You would hope that it's in the more distant future when these things are long buried, but deep down we all know it won't. That's just the way it is and there's nothing anyone can do about it, people can't turn their feelings off.



But the country tried to ethnically cleanse their region and their families were affected. So really, it's very understandable.

Nothing against current Serbia, I'm not trying to start anything about that, those times are over. But these players had to have been affected in some way, it is impossible for that to not be the case.

It's inevitable that these games will have political ramifications. For the record this is Shaqiri's bag.

Xhaka's dad was jailed and beaten. He was very much involved.

 

[Alklha]

I don't have any problem at all with how any of the players with Kosovo-Albanian roots behaved.

Talk about personal vendettas, or whatever else, is an utter nonsense. Their performances were obviously not negatively impacted, so who the hell is anyone to question their motivation?

They play for Switzerland because they lived their entire lives in Switzerland, but that doesn't mean they should forget why they ended up living there. It doesn't mean that they should overlook the continuing issues between their parents homeland and Serbia, or that a parent was in jail for over 3 years. It doesn't mean they should ignore the crap that Serbian media is drumming up about it all.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Like as soon as you hear and see that, even if you decided to let go of your hatred, it's all going to come flooding back.

You posted the picture of Shaqiri's boots yourself. That photo was taken before the match, so what happened didn't happen because of anything that happened at the match. And it goes without saying that there's Serbian ultra-nationalist fans, but that doesn't mean it's OK for Swiss national team players to further stoke those flames.

 

[Natey]

Granit Xhaka: ‘My dad’s first few months in jail were OK, then the beatings started’

 

[Live in the Now]

For my parents, it was a really proud moment to see me playing at the World Cup, because they came to Switzerland with nothing and they worked so hard to try to make a good life for their kids. I think the media often misunderstands my feelings for Switzerland. I feel that I have two homes. It’s that simple. Switzerland gave my family everything, and I try to give everything for the national team. But whenever I go to Kosovo, I immediately have the feeling of home, too. It is not something logical. It is just a feeling that I have in my gut.

In 2012, when we played against Albania, I put the flags of Switzerland, Albania and Kosovo on my boots, and some of the Swiss newspapers were saying all kinds of negative things about it. I was criticized for it, but it’s crazy to me that some people feel this way because it’s simply my identity. The great thing about Switzerland is that the country has been very welcoming to people who come from war and poverty who are looking for a good life.

Switzerland has lakes and mountains and all that stuff. But Switzerland also has the park I played in with the Turks, the Serbs, the Albanians, the Africans, and the girls and the German rappers. Switzerland is for everyone.

When I run onto the field at the 2018 World Cup, I will have the flags of both Switzerland and Kosovo on my boots. Not because of politics or anything like that. But because the flags tell the story of my life.
Don’t worry though, the Swiss flag is on my left foot.

Now I Got My Own Army Guy?

Didn't realize that he wrote this today. I think it speaks for itself.

 

[Dueling Banjos]

I don't think it's possible to keep it locked up inside when the team you're playing against is from a country that killed thousands of people in the country you were born in. During your lifetime at that.

If they wanted to play for Albania or Kosovo they would have, so it isn't about that either. IMO anyway. Btw the entire Swiss coaching staff is made up of people from the former Yugoslavia, so there's really, massively something there. They can say whatever they want. They were all feeling it and can't deny it. Obviously they are proud to rep Switzerland, but if they say they didn't want to give extra in this game, they'd be lying. For some it will have been the most important game they've ever played. Dead seriously. That's what spurred on their comeback.

This is going both ways, it's well known that Albanians there abused, kidnapped and murdered a lot of Serbians from that region. Kosovo leaders have been identified as the "mafia-like" Albanian group responsible for smuggling weapons, drugs and human organs through eastern Europe.

 

[Live in the Now]

This is going both ways, it's well known that Albanians there abused, kidnapped and murdered a lot of Serbians from that region. Kosovo leaders have been identified as the "mafia-like" Albanian group responsible for smuggling weapons, drugs and human organs through eastern Europe.

Well aware, like extremely well aware. Albanian mob figures have a reputation for a reason. Unless Shaqiri's family was part of that, I don't see how it pertains to him. It's the same thing as the stuff the US does that I don't approve of. I am not going in a building and pushing a button to go kill people, therefore it doesn't apply to me.

 

[Corto]

They played in 2013. There were chants about killing Serbs and hundreds/thousands of riot police at the stadium. Now consider the part where it's inevitably going to be in a neutral country where the police aren't as familiar with the fans, leading to a situation like in Marseille when Russia and England played. Where the people who travel to these games are usually the most hardcore of nationalists. Full out disaster zone.

Chill out.

We played on about a million occasions by now. Football, basketball, handball, waterpolo, national team level, club level.
Very rarely was there any incident.

If Croatia and Serbia ended up playing in a game at the WC or EURO it would be no more of a risk than most other games.

 

[cgf]

Oh yeah because the 'progressive' view is to hang onto all your hatred and lust for revenge forever. That's a great lesson for future generations. The Balkans Wars were a complex mess and we'd be all better off if people looked to the future instead of the past. But, no, let's make excuses for Albanian jingoism because uh I guess those news clips in the 90s made them look like the 'good guys'.

Why the f*** should I care about what the "progressive view" is? You can distract yourself with partisan BS all you want, but I couldn't care less about that "my team good, their team bad" shit.

I fully know how the 'experience' is, I've lived in a few different countries myself. I don't tell anyone how to feel, I merely expect a level of behavior when you represent a country though. Don't drag your personal vendettas, ethnic hatreds, tribal grudges into that role. Keep that locked up inside or go represent your old country.

That's bullshit though. Most people don't simply lose their history and it's an even more ridiculous expectation to place on them when the new culture they are to be assimilating into is itself the result of centuries of "foreign cultures" inter-mixing & shaping the "native culture."

PS, Resentment towards the nation that sent you & your family fleeing for your lives isn't "personal vendettas, ethnic hatreds, tribal grudges" what an absolutely absurd description. wow, even for you that's low.

Granit Xhaka: ‘My dad’s first few months in jail were OK, then the beatings started’

There Granit goes again, holding onto tribal grudges & personal vendettas...

 

[Live in the Now]

Chill out.

We played on about a million occasions by now. Football, basketball, handball, waterpolo, national team level, club level.
Very rarely was there any incident.

If Croatia and Serbia ended up playing in a game at the WC or EURO it would be no more of a risk than most other games.

You don't remember Croats and Serbs fighting at f***ing tennis? It's the stuff on neutral ground, at a WC or Euro, which leads to extremely hostile and nationalist feelings in the extreme because that's who travels to these games. It would hardly be shocking and at the football games, Croats and Serbs aren't allowed to travel to the other country. It's simply not the same.

 

[kovacro]

Chill out.

We played on about a million occasions by now. Football, basketball, handball, waterpolo, national team level, club level.
Very rarely was there any incident.

If Croatia and Serbia ended up playing in a game at the WC or EURO it would be no more of a risk than most other games.

That’s what I assumed in my original comments to which the above reply was made.

I’d rather someone with more knowledge that is residing (I’m guessing your there) in that region give their 2 cents.

Appreciated.

Anyhow, this is drifting away from the actual game on the pitch which I though was pretty good. Serbia really solid 1st half but nice response by the Swiss in the 2nd.

Lots of intrigue going into the final round of games.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Plenty of Serbs would have good reason to hate Albanians. And many of them certainly do. I don't care about who was right or wrong in Kosovo because those conflicts are centuries old and involve a lot of crap done by both sides.

It's a simple point. If you represent Switzerland, Germany, America, Canada or whoever else..you're acting as a representative of that nation and your ancestral conflicts have no meaning to your fellow Swiss, Germans, etc. of other ethnic backgrounds, and you're not entitled to use the Swiss or German or American uniform as an outlet for all the baggage you brought with you from the old country. End of story.

 

[torero]

I don't have any problem at all with how any of the players with Kosovo-Albanian roots behaved.

.

Absolutely, Switzerland is a country that accepts double nationalities. To become Swiss, you do not need to say no to your former nationality. It is a philosophy.

Modern Switzerland is made of many foreigners .... and that is how it is.
I am Swiss (with a Mexican mother) ... i root for both.
My best friend is a Swiss who has a name and is 100% Italian originaly, ...
my ex wife was half vietnamese/Swiss and my present wife is Russian .. i had kids with both.
Only saying this because all my children are Swiss ... lots of melanges.

That is modern Switzerland.
And you hear it on the street all languages people speak. In the bus, train ... .
We are still one nation. And on top of that, we speak different languages (french, swiss-german, italina, romatch )... but ... we are still One Nation.

 

[Ivan13]

I just love reading the expert takes on the intricacies of the conflicts in ex-YU and on the current state of affairs in regards to how we view one another. I have no time of day for the war mongering morons and the people who feed inyo mass hysteria. Normal people on both sides get along pretty damn well, and are not interested in wasting time pickining old wounds. We did it, it's in the past and f*** off with the "they hate each other" narrative, we don't.

 

[Corto]

You don't remember Croats and Serbs fighting at ****ing tennis? It's the stuff on neutral ground, at a WC or Euro, which leads to extremely hostile and nationalistic feelings in the extreme because that's who travels to these games. It would hardly be shocking and at the football games, Croats and Serbs aren't allowed to travel to the other country. It's simply not the same.

Most of the people travelling to the World Cup games are normal folk, buddies from work, yuppies, people taking kids etc.
Among the thousands, there'll be a very low percentage of ultras.
Croatia never had any violent incident in a big tournament (2016 protest were non-violent, though stupid) and Serbia had its last in 1998.

If anything, chances of any real violence escalating between Croatia and Serbia at a WC are less than anywhere else.

There are way more risk-filled games and way more hatred between some other nations (including Serbia and Kosovo).

 

[cgf]

I just love reading the expert takes on the intricacies of the conflicts in ex-YU and on the current state of affairs in regards to how we view one another. I have no time of day for the war mongering morons and the people who feed inyo mass hysteria. Normal people on both sides get along pretty damn well, and are not interested in wasting time pickining old wounds. We did it, it's in the past and **** off with the "they hate each other" narrative, we don't.

You & Corto may feel that way. Granit & Xherdan clearly don't

 

[Ivan13]

And this is why this place is a mess. Morons still live in the past and debate who was Ustasa and who was Partizan. Until you transcend that and move on you are going nowhere. Anyway, I'm done discussing this with people who have no idea what they are on about.

 

[Live in the Now]

Most of the people travelling to the World Cup games are normal folk, buddies from work, yuppies, people taking kids etc.
Among the thousands, there'll be a very low percentage of ultras.
Croatia never had any violent incident in a big tournament (2016 protest were non-violent, though stupid) and Serbia had its last in 1998.

If anything, chances of any real violence escalating between Croatia and Serbia at a WC are less than anywhere else.

There are way more risk-filled games and way more hatred between some other nations (including Serbia and Kosovo).

I agree. I did say Bosnia-Serbia as well. Poland-Russia is another with a very recent incident. And practically every England game. I just think with something on the line, it would wind up not being very good. It also depends what country it happens in.

You & Corto may feel that way. Granit & Xherdan clearly don't

Or Lovren. The players are usually the ones who receive the most extreme direct provocation from ultra types. They are also younger than we are and that's the easiest part to forget. There are some serious idiots out there who like to provoke players who had to become refugees. No wonder they score and freak out. The Mitrovic comment would have been enough for me to scream right in his face after scoring.