World Cup: Group E: Serbia vs. Switzerland, 6/22/2018

[cgf]

And this is why this place is a mess. Morons still live in the past and debate who was Ustasa and who was Partizan. Until you transcend that and move on you are going nowhere. Anyway, I'm done discussing this with people who have no idea what they are on about.

TMYK bringing this up had nothing really to do with what happened in the former yugoslav-nations. He just wanted to use the feelings that some swiss players currently have, in the present...stupidly or not...to launch into yet another one of his nationalist diatribes about how immigrants are ruining germanic countries.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

For the record, apparently the Swiss football association specifically told players not to do the Albanian two-headed eagle celebration in 2014 and they agreed not to do it. Shaqiri himself said then: "We are with the national team here. It will never happen in this team that someone celebrates like that."

 

[Moncherry]

Mitrovic being the one called for a foul on two defenders who wrestled him to the ground has to be the most outrageous decision I've seen thus far.

 

[Live in the Now]

Mitrovic being the one called for a foul on two defenders who wrestled him to the ground has to be the most outrageous decision I've seen thus far.

Yeah, that was definitely a penalty. The VAR setup is still not right, they need to be more willing to interfere and completely overrule the official.

This was the best game so far, in large part because of the political implications leading certain players to play out of their minds.

 

[Moncherry]

The logistics of the call just don't make sense. You would have to think Mitrovic grabbed a hold of two defenders, including one who was behind him, and dragged them down to the ground when he was attempting to jump up for a cross.

I don't think it's a problem with VAR either, with the things players are constantly getting away with in regards to clutching and grabbing it seems to be some sort of mandate that is allowing a lot of leniency.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Haha MLS Star Dzemaili has no buisness to be in such a tournament anymore. Lichtsteiner should have been replaced after the last European Championship as well. He has been terrible in both ends for a while now.

This didn't age well.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Serbia seemed so much quicker and stronger in the first half, I wonder to what degree this second half can be attributed to their team not being fit enough to keep shape.

Or maybe Switzerland decided to start playing.

 

[BruinLVGA]

If I was Swiss I'd be a bit embarrassed of such antics. I wouldn't even want to know what would happen in Germany if Ozil scored against Greece and unvealed a Turkish flag shirt under his jersey or something of that ilk.

I am Swiss and I couldn't give a flying f*** about what celebration Shaqiri, Xhaka or anyone else in the Swiss team or any other team has.
However, if I were Serbian, I would be embarrassed to see my fellow fans whistling when the Swiss anthem is played.

 

[BruinLVGA]

First off, kosovars who's families fled for their lives when they were young making that symbol with their hands when scoring against Serbia is not the same ****ing thing as a 3rd generation turko-german wearing a Turkish flag under his jersey in a match against greece. GTFO with that bull**** analogy. This would be like Dahoud celebrating a goal against the Saudi's by making a syrian symbol...or a goal against Syria if his family fled Assad's forces rather than the saudi-backed militias; as I don't know the details of his story.

Secondly, you don't have to abandon your heritage to be german. That's only been the policy during the worst times in our history. You don't like believing this, but millions of people around the world grow up with two hearts beating in our chest and that does not make us un-german, un-swiss, un-american, or un-wherever the **** else.

So this "assimilation not integration" spiel you keep regurgitating is just utterly disconnected from the reality of the experience.

Perfect post.

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

Well after learning about the political situation have to say this was one of the best games of the world cup.
Always like me a bit of extra tension

 

[Cassano]

I can't believe how well Xhaka played today. This is the player I envisioned when Arsenal signed him.

 

[S E P H]

Xhaka is not many things, but holy **** his long balls are amazing.

I am Swiss and I couldn't give a flying **** about what celebration Shaqiri, Xhaka or anyone else in the Swiss team or any other team has.
However, if I were Serbian, I would be embarrassed to see my fellow fans whistling when the Swiss anthem is played.

You reap what you sow. If you're going to celebrate with political motives that are anti-Serbian, then Serbians can boo the national anthem all they want. That's why freedom is so badass, you can do whatever you want to get your point across - both Suisse and Serbia did what they wanted.

 

[Ivan13]

For what it's worth, the expert on the Croatian TV said he the ref was right because Mitrovic first fouled the initial defender so that negates what happened afterwards. I don't agree with it, and Prosinecki didn't either, but it's not as black and white as we think it is.

 

[Corto]

Or Lovren. The players are usually the ones who receive the most extreme direct provocation from ultra types. They are also younger than we are and that's the easiest part to forget. There are some serious idiots out there who like to provoke players who had to become refugees. No wonder they score and freak out. The Mitrovic comment would have been enough for me to scream right in his face after scoring.

Nah. Not Lovren. I've met him (not saying I know him, just met him), I know people who played with and who he used to hang out with, he's not driven on hatred, he's a genuinely nice guy (though not always the sharpest tool in the shed). He's into the whole national team tribalism/cult thing (which you apparently need to be here), silly right wing songs in the dressing rooms as motivation/celebration, crap like that. They're not the most educated group of people, etc... It's similar for most football players.
(FWIW, I'm a refugee myself, never went back, lost relatives, my wife's father died in the war,etc... 25 years is more than enough time to heal wounds and dissolve hatred if you let it... There is the right wing here which still thrives on it and builds policies on it, but the majority of people has either moved on or wants to move on and live life with normal relationship with our neighbours... rivals, but not enemies)

Serbia-Kosovo hatred goes above anything Serbia-Croatia have had since the war ended. It's still ongoing and it's different.
Also, I think at least part of the reason why Xhaka and Xhakiri celebrated the goals like they did is down to being constantly booed and whistled by Serbian fans (and a lot of the Russian host fans helping them).

 

[Corto]

For what it's woryh, the expert on the Croatian TV said he yhe ref was right because Mitrovic first fouled the initial defender so that negates what happened afterwards. I don't agree with it, and Prosinecki didn't either, but it's not as black and white as we think it is.

I do actually. He was fouled, but he was fouling himself. In those situations, I'd also lean to give the call for the defender.
I mean, he literally climbed on both defenders heads.

Also, I get triggered when people in the studio were saying "but it's 2v1".
Being 2v1 is allowed. It's not a foul just because 2 people are there from the opposing team, I don't even know what they were trying to say.

 

[Speyer]

This didn't age well.

Why not? Neither player contributed that much to the comeback. Embolo played significantly better than Dzemaili for the rest of the game. But in the end Petkovic seems go get in the results, despite some questionable desitions so the success proves him right I guess.

 

[Dueling Banjos]

Plenty of Serbs would have good reason to hate Albanians. And many of them certainly do. I don't care about who was right or wrong in Kosovo because those conflicts are centuries old and involve a lot of crap done by both sides.

It's a simple point. If you represent Switzerland, Germany, America, Canada or whoever else..you're acting as a representative of that nation and your ancestral conflicts have no meaning to your fellow Swiss, Germans, etc. of other ethnic backgrounds, and you're not entitled to use the Swiss or German or American uniform as an outlet for all the baggage you brought with you from the old country. End of story.

Indeed. It was embarrassing.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Or maybe Switzerland decided to start playing.

Well, you may be right.

After all, the avalanche of major honours that the Swiss has won as a nation in modern footballing times, and the wildly successful individual club careers the players within that team have enjoyed, strongly hints that they are a collection of genuises who can at will turn their performances on and off like a tap.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Why not? Neither player contributed that much to the comeback. Embolo played significantly better than Dzemaili for the rest of the game. But in the end Petkovic seems go get in the results, despite some questionable desitions so the success proves him right I guess.

On the evidence of these two games, Petkovic seems a lucky general more than a good one. His initial tactics and selection were wrong, which was why in the first half the Serbs were vastly superior, able to feed Mitrovic at will, while Mitrovic was able to embarrass Schar. Twice now Switzerland have come out of the traps unable to deny more talented opponents space.

I totally agree with your criticisms of Petkovic's selections. Dzemaili found some good positions, but finished like a 32 year old who's never scored double figures in a season over his entire career. Which made it all the stranger that his team seemed to have built their scoring threat around him. Lichtsteiner looked like the perfect player for Arsenal to sign if they want to establish themselves as London's premier footballing retirement home. And Seferovic was staking a strong claim for the title of worst striker to start for a European nation in a World Cup ever. Embolo, by contrast, manifestly troubled the Serbs. No doubt Petkovic is falling back on the old hack-thinking that Embolo is better suited to coming on later in the game when things are more open and opposition defences are tiring. But opponents would tire a lot quicker against Switzerland if they knew that before half time they'd not have pretty much the whole game played in front of them.

Xhaka's goal was one of those bolt-from-the-blue srikes that often turn games on their heads. Maybe Switzerland can achieve their goal of a quarter final spot despite not playing for more than 45 minutes out of 90, but I wouldn't want to bet my life on it.

By the bye, the Serbian keeper gives me the air of an imposter who suspects that at any moment security is going to to invade the pitch, wrestle him to the ground, and frogmarch him off the playing surface.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Why not? Neither player contributed that much to the comeback. Embolo played significantly better than Dzemaili for the rest of the game. But in the end Petkovic seems go get in the results, despite some questionable desitions so the success proves him right I guess.

Because they both held the field well, did their job and contributed to tiring out Serbia. It's not a case that when Switzerland put in Gavranovic and Embolo vs a tired Serbian team, the game changed. They didn't absolutely look out of place.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Well, you may be right.

After all, the avalanche of major honours that the Swiss has won as a nation in modern footballing times, and the wildly successful individual club careers the players within that team have enjoyed, strongly hints that they are a collection of genuises who can at will turn their performances on and off like a tap.

Cheap sarcasm is the easy way out when one doesn't have anything meaningful to say. Congratulations.

One day you will - maybe - be acquainted with the concept of momentum and how the swinging of it can change the complexion of a game.
Switzerland wasn't obviously mentally ready to tackle a very physical and aggressive Serbian team from the onset and they paid for it in terms of being down 1-0 and suffering for the first 30 minutes or so.

However... The quality of a team that after all is ranked 6th in the world + hasn't lost but one game in the last two years plus (that's 24 games...) + in that span has beaten the likes of Portugal, tied Spain and Brazil, etc etc, slowly started to take over. All this must be a new concept for you, I guess. It's a good day when you can learn new things. You're welcome.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Cheap sarcasm is the easy way out when one doesn't have anything meaningful to say. Congratulations.

One day you will - maybe - be acquainted with the concept of momentum and how the swinging of it can change the complexion of a game.
Switzerland wasn't obviously mentally ready to tackle a very physical and aggressive Serbian team from the onset and they paid for it in terms of being down 1-0 and suffering for the first 30 minutes or so.

However... The quality of a team that after all is ranked 6th in the world + hasn't lost but one game in the last two years plus (that's 24 games...) + in that span has beaten the likes of Portugal, tied Spain and Brazil, etc etc, slowly started to take over. All this must be a new concept for you, I guess. It's a good day when you can learn new things. You're welcome.

Based on the quality of your precious posts, cheap sarcasm is all you deserve. Alas, the World Cup brings sundry homers out of the woodwork to bedevil the rest of us with thin-skinned responses to anyone who dares criticise their precious team.

But let's pretend that your failure to post anything worthwhile about this game so far is a case of your having kept your powder dry. What do you think changed the momentum of the game? In your view (which isn't ludicrously one-eyed of course) its 'quality'. What specific moments of quality would you refer to?

I'd say the shift came from the fact that moments after Mitrovic headed over the bar for a corner, the Serbs were too slow to organise from the resultant restart, and conceded a stunning goal. If their failure to regain shape quickly enough wasn't physical tiredness, it was lack of mental concentration.

As for the winner, well though Shaqiri finished, that was primary school defending on an individual and collective level.

What's your analysis other than resorting to FIFA rankings and results from games played before the tournament started, which therefore are of limited relevance to considering what occurred on the day?

You say, "Switzerland wasn't obviously mentally ready to tackle a very physical and aggressive Serbian team from the onset and they paid for it in terms of being down 1-0 and suffering for the first 30 minutes or so."

How were the Serbs 'very physical and aggressive', Mitrovic aside? And if Switzerland weren't ready for them, does not some blame accrue to the coach you defended earlier? Mitrovic's style of play has hardly changed overnight.

I look forward to your response from that pedestal of knowledge and understanding you've placed yourself on.

 

[Speyer]

Because they both held the field well, did their job and contributed to tiring out Serbia. It's not a case that when Switzerland put in Gavranovic and Embolo vs a tired Serbian team, the game changed. They didn't absolutely look out of place.

Ok Lichtsteiner was a bit more solid than usual, his defensive shortcomings weren't exposed that much because he didn't play against elite wingers this time. However his offensive impact was absymal again. The only way Switzerland could generate offense off the right wing was Shaqiri cutting to the middle and shooting. Lichtsteiners crosses never find their mark, he cannot beat defenders one on one and he hasn't good shot either. I don't think I have ever seen a game when he generated a comparable amount of offensive plays to Rodriguez on the other side. He is well past his prime and plays only because of his reputation. Its also not like we haven't any viable alternatives like Widmer, Lang or even Mbabu for his position. I stand by my point Petkovic should have replaced him sometime during the qualifing campaign.

Now Dzemaili isn't a attacking middelfielder in the first place. He used to play as a typical number 6 and then morphed into a number 8 during his time at Torino/Napoli. He has no finishing touch and therefore has no place to play as a 10. He has proven that about four times yesterday and has proven it many times before, like in 2014 when he should have scored against Argentina in the first knockout round. He even played wing for a considerable time yesterday rotating with Shaqiri, a position he has never played in any of his many clubs and that he has no skillset for. In the second half yesterday he wasn't blowing scoring opportunities anymore, because he didin't had any. But he was physically outmatched against the tall Serbs and seemed very insecure defensively. When Embolo came in he started to win physical battles from the get go and improved the stability of the team imediately. If I consider all these aspects, I just don't see why Petkovic keeps Dzemaili in his starting lineup.

 

[Stray Wasp]

I think another factor in the second half may have been that Serbia made more long aerial passes aimed for Mitrovic, which left their team spaced out more. That extra space gave Shaqiri more freedom to come off the wing and cause trouble.

 

[jonas2244]

Ok Lichtsteiner was a bit more solid than usual, his defensive shortcomings weren't exposed that much because he didn't play against elite wingers this time. However his offensive impact was absymal again. The only way Switzerland could generate offense off the right wing was Shaqiri cutting to the middle and shooting. Lichtsteiners crosses never find their mark, he cannot beat defenders one on one and he hasn't good shot either. I don't think I have ever seen a game when he generated a comparable amount of offensive plays to Rodriguez on the other side. He is well past his prime and plays only because of his reputation. Its also not like we haven't any viable alternatives like Widmer, Lang or even Mbabu for his position. I stand by my point Petkovic should have replaced him sometime during the qualifing campaign.

Now Dzemaili isn't a attacking middelfielder in the first place. He used to play as a typical number 6 and then morphed into a number 8 during his time at Torino/Napoli. He has no finishing touch and therefore has no place to play as a 10. He has proven that about four times yesterday and has proven it many times before, like in 2014 when he should have scored against Argentina in the first knockout round. He even played wing for a considerable time yesterday rotating with Shaqiri, a position he has never played in any of his many clubs and that he has no skillset for. In the second half yesterday he wasn't blowing scoring opportunities anymore, because he didin't had any. But he was physically outmatched against the tall Serbs and seemed very insecure defensively. When Embolo came in he started to win physical battles from the get go and improved the stability of the team imediately. If I consider all these aspects, I just don't see why Petkovic keeps Dzemaili in his starting lineup.

One aspect you don't consider is that a player can give a team more than just his skills. Lichtsteiner is a leader of this team and has been for quite some time. He has ton of experience and while I agree that Widmer or Lang are in terms of their football-skills probably equal (or even better) but I think Lichtsteiner was too important for this team during this qualifying and this tournament. He seems to do a great job getting the team together and with all those guys from different places all around the world this isn't an easy job. But yeah, it should be his last tournament. And with Lang, Widmer, Mbabu and Hadergonaj we have 4 really good players to choose to replace him.

Regarding Dzemaili, I never liked him playing on the 10. But I don't see really another option. We really don't have anyone who plays this position in his team at a reasonable level. And we didn't have for quite some time, since Yakin retired. Embolo could, but there is no guarantee he'd do better. Comparing his play coming into the game after 70 minutes and playing against tired players to Dzemaili who played against players who were equally tired is not exactly fair.
But this is probably the last puzzle-part we really need. A good player for this position, who plays in a big league. Seferovic gets a lot of blame, but he rarley gets the support he needs. And he really works his ass off, each game. And I'm pretty sure he could do a lot better with more support.