Euro: Group D: ENG vs. CZE, SCO vs. CRO, 6/22/2021

[Milos Krasic]

Does it really matter? Who are they playing, France/Germany/Portugal? Yeah, rest won't save them.

I mean, England could win. Not likely but not some miracle.

 

[Live in the Now]

Here's the absolute fact. England have too many players for two positions. They have Foden/Grealish/Sancho/Saka/Sterling for those two positions, Rashford also plays there sometimes. The last group game also didn't matter all that much to them, they'd advanced. Making grandiose statements about that game or the team selection or anything is completely ridiculous.

They're also soon going to have Hudson-Odoi and Elliott for those positions. Guess what? Sometimes class players are going to be left out.

 

[Live in the Now]

Also, if anything? When you know you have a top player, you aren't from the country they play for, and they aren't being picked for their NT, you shouldn't really be mad about it. They're saving their body from being destroyed by not playing games that don't matter to you. You think I want Henderson playing here? f*** no that manager already killed our season with that stuff.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Cheering for England but they never play with any urgency.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The Bundesliga isn’t a very hard league to score in. Werner scored 6 PL goals as a regular starter after lighting up the Bundesliga. Not comparable. As I said I also think Sancho has a better final ball, while Saka is better in other areas (so looking blindly at stats would be foolish especially considering Saka spent half the season at LB). Not sure I would pick Saka but they are definately on a similar level. Even Spurs fans seem to agree with me. Grealish and Foden are probably on the same level as Sancho for now as well.

Are you seriously going down this path? You sound completely ignorant about the Bundesliga. I don't like the I told you so stuff, but Werner was never that good. I told everyone so. Nagelsmann has a history of making less technical players make better decision and look better technically. That Werner now panics in front of goal and scuffs easy shots under Lampard and Tuchel isn't surprising. He's no longer being coached by Nagelsmann. That you were unaware of it and now think he's some product of the Bundesliga shows your lack of knowledge about the league.

I can play the same game as you. Leroy Sane tears it up for Man City, hasn't done much in either stint he's had in the Bundesliga. de Bruyne performed at a higher level for Man City than he did in the Bundesliga. Pulisic has been much better in the Premier League than the Bundesliga. Coutinho was great at Liverpool, not so much in La Liga or the Bundesliga. But I don't play that game because I realize it's very situational and individual to each player. Don't play this ignorant game about the strength of leagues. It's not a winning one for anyone.

Trying to rationalize a bad decision with some very minute analysis doesn't make sense. Saka has 11 goals and 21 assists in his career for Arsenal. Sancho had 16 goals and 20 assists this season. There's no debate. Winning some meaningless player of the game trophy that they give out for measures like dribbles doesn't actually have a tangible effect on winning and losing games. England has scored 2 goals. The coach has his best attacker play 6 minutes so far. It's one thing to prefer Sterling, Foden, Grealish. Sancho is better than those players, but they are all very accomplished. The problem for Southgate is that it's clearly not working. Those players aren't producing many goals.

Saka is a completely different discussion. He's just starting out his career. He's not proven. He's not that productive. It's an insult to Sancho that he's backing up Saka. As I already said, Saka cannot lace up Sancho's boots. Maybe in three years he can. Right now, it's a joke of a comparison and its offensive to Sancho to humiliate him with 6 minutes off the bench as the replacement for a guy whose not half as good as him right now.

 

[cgf]

The Bundesliga isn’t a very hard league to score in. Werner scored 6 PL goals as a regular starter after lighting up the Bundesliga. Not comparable. As I said I also think Sancho has a better final ball, while Saka is better in other areas (so looking blindly at stats would be foolish especially considering Saka spent half the season at LB). Not sure I would pick Saka but they are definately on a similar level. Even Spurs fans seem to agree with me. Grealish and Foden are probably on the same level as Sancho for now as well.

While true, we're talking about the EPL; which is notoriously easy to score in. Just look at the way Sane was scoring or assisting when he got to abuse EPL backlines...or the way KdB started lighting it up once he got away from tough BuLi defenders. Hell Ilkay scored more goals in the past year than he did his entire time in Dortmund!

Aren't numbers fun?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Saka played 3606 minutes this season. He had 17 goal contributions (7G, 10A).

Sancho has 41 goal contributions (19G, 22A) in his last 3606 minutes. He's more than double as effective at providing what tangibly effects a game than Saka.

How could someone seriously argue for Saka over Sancho? It's insulting to Sancho, and its insulting to the intelligence of all of us to act like Sancho's not considerably better.

 

[cgf]

Saka played 3606 minutes this season. He had 17 goal contributions (7G, 10A).

Sancho has 41 goal contributions (19G, 22A) in his last 3606 minutes. He's more than double as effective at providing what tangibly effects a game than Saka.

How could someone seriously argue for Saka over Sancho? It's insulting to Sancho, and its insulting to the intelligence of all of us to act like Sancho's not considerably better.

Chill out man. I'm the only one here who recognizes that Max Kruse is the greatest living footballer, and still, I don't think it's insulting that every last one of you is so colossally wrong about football...regardless of how obvious it is.

Just gotta let people enjoy their delusions sometimes

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Also, if anything? When you know you have a top player, you aren't from the country they play for, and they aren't being picked for their NT, you shouldn't really be mad about it. They're saving their body from being destroyed by not playing games that don't matter to you. You think I want Henderson playing here? f*** no that manager already killed our season with that stuff.

This is only my speculation, but it really does seem like Southgate is discriminating against players who don't play in England. There has long been a complex with English players, media, public, and probably also now coaches where they believe that the other top leagues in Europe are inferior.

I heard a discussion about this exact topic take place on a football show a few weeks ago. It was asked if Sancho would be left out because he played in Germany, and not England. A player who played in both leagues suggested that he thought Sancho would be left out because he's not playing in England. Looks like he was right about Sancho being left out. Was it because he doesn't play in England? I don't think we'll know the answer to that, but it comes off that way from Southgate. The excuses he's used aren't very believable. So yes, I don't have much of a rooting interest in this tournament, but I hope Southgate fails miserably, and looks bad for the decisions he's made.

 

[phisherman]

Saka can play multiple positions, is smart and knows how to defend. He's not a f*** boy like Sancho.

 

[cgf]

Saka can play multiple positions, is smart and knows how to defend. He's not a f*** boy like Sancho.

Sometimes it helps to have a f***boy around

 

[ItsFineImFine]

Finished the game and wow Kyle Walker was awful, is it possible for a full-back to be an offensive black-hole?

Also there's nothing new up front, usual lack of ideas in the middle but I find it interesting how often their defenders get mixed up or make little mistakes like a pass that goes for an unnecessary corner or throw in or a pass back to the defenders which goes to no one. I'm also not sure what Stone and Maguire were doing constantly bombing up front even in minute 70 and 80 while defending a 1-goal lead. I'm pretty sure there's mistakes to be exposed in the England backline.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Sometimes it helps to have a f***boy around

...go on...

 

[czechcanadian]

That second half was not fun to watch. Congrats England. Hope our third place finish doesn't get us a crazy hard opponent. I was hoping for 2nd... congrats Croatia... well deserved

I’ll take any team over Germany, France, or Portugal.
We may end up playing Spain which would be ok

 

[cgf]

...go on...

 

[shaner8989]

I’ll take any team over Germany, France, or Portugal.
We may end up playing Spain which would be ok

Wrong bud. They play 2nd place in group F

 

[Havre]

Kind of funny how Southgate can't do anything right. Plays Phillips against Croatia. Did he get the "official" MoM? Plays Saka yesterday - MoM - should have played Sancho

I don't think Southgate has really found the right balance yet, but I get what he is trying with Saka. Personally I would have played Rashford - even if he is arguably the "worst" player individually he offers something slightly different than the others (Saka and Rashford got some similarities).

Not to say Sancho couldn't still play. See no reason why he would be any worse than Sterling, but now that Sterling has scored twice he will continue playing.

 

[Corto]

I’ll take goals and assists, the metrics that influence wins and losses.

I dunno what to say to this. If someone is actually watching this game and doesn't understand how much it comprises of OTHER than goals and assists, I really dunno what to tell you.

 

[AB13]

Are you seriously going down this path? You sound completely ignorant about the Bundesliga. I don't like the I told you so stuff, but Werner was never that good. I told everyone so. Nagelsmann has a history of making less technical players make better decision and look better technically. That Werner now panics in front of goal and scuffs easy shots under Lampard and Tuchel isn't surprising. He's no longer being coached by Nagelsmann. That you were unaware of it and now think he's some product of the Bundesliga shows your lack of knowledge about the league.

I can play the same game as you. Leroy Sane tears it up for Man City, hasn't done much in either stint he's had in the Bundesliga. de Bruyne performed at a higher level for Man City than he did in the Bundesliga. Pulisic has been much better in the Premier League than the Bundesliga. Coutinho was great at Liverpool, not so much in La Liga or the Bundesliga. But I don't play that game because I realize it's very situational and individual to each player. Don't play this ignorant game about the strength of leagues. It's not a winning one for anyone.

Trying to rationalize a bad decision with some very minute analysis doesn't make sense. Saka has 11 goals and 21 assists in his career for Arsenal. Sancho had 16 goals and 20 assists this season. There's no debate. Winning some meaningless player of the game trophy that they give out for measures like dribbles doesn't actually have a tangible effect on winning and losing games. England has scored 2 goals. The coach has his best attacker play 6 minutes so far. It's one thing to prefer Sterling, Foden, Grealish. Sancho is better than those players, but they are all very accomplished. The problem for Southgate is that it's clearly not working. Those players aren't producing many goals.

Saka is a completely different discussion. He's just starting out his career. He's not proven. He's not that productive. It's an insult to Sancho that he's backing up Saka. As I already said, Saka cannot lace up Sancho's boots. Maybe in three years he can. Right now, it's a joke of a comparison and its offensive to Sancho to humiliate him with 6 minutes off the bench as the replacement for a guy whose not half as good as him right now.

You think I was unaware that Werner was a product of Nagelsmann? Look at my post history. I said when he signed for Chelsea that he won’t ever hit 15+ Non penalty goals because he won’t have as much space to run in behind in the PL. And yes, I do believe the Bundesliga is an easy league to score in compared to every other top 5 league. There is not a single quality defensive unit in the entire league and most teams press incredibly high.

 

[AB13]

Saka played 3606 minutes this season. He had 17 goal contributions (7G, 10A).

Sancho has 41 goal contributions (19G, 22A) in his last 3606 minutes. He's more than double as effective at providing what tangibly effects a game than Saka.

How could someone seriously argue for Saka over Sancho? It's insulting to Sancho, and its insulting to the intelligence of all of us to act like Sancho's not considerably better.

Saka has played left back for half of that time and broke out for real this winter. He’s smarter, works harder off the ball, stretches the defence with runs in behind while also being able to drop deep and receive. He’s also a bigger goal threat than Sancho on the right despite what your stats say (Saka has only played on the right for half a season). Sancho isn’t even the same player type, so if you want him to start you half to bench Grealish who is a more comparable player (or Sterling who gives the attack an important dynamic). Saka and Grealish have been Englands best players this tournament and don’t deserve to be dropped.

 

[maclean]

England was clearly the better team but it's hard not to take at least some solace in the fact that with a little bit of luck we could've actually tied this.

 

[luiginb]

Saka deservedly man of the match. Second half wasn't great, content with 1-0 and the clean sheet. Maguire looked good for his first game since early May.

Shaw for me, good in attack, almost scored, and neutralized one of the best Czech players in Coufal.

And yes, I do believe the Bundesliga is an easy league to score in compared to every other top 5 league. There is not a single quality defensive unit in the entire league and most teams press incredibly high.

As crazy as that may have sounded 20 years ago, Serie A is the easiest league to score in nowadays.

 

[AB13]

Shaw for me, good in attack, almost scored, and neutralized one of the best Czech players in Coufal.



As crazy as that may have sounded 20 years ago, Serie A is the easiest league to score in nowadays.

The Serie A isn’t as defensively strong as it used to be but it is still tougher to score in than the Bundesliga for me. It’s about La Liga level defensively, but maybe even a little easier.

 

[Havre]

Goals per game last season the Serie A and Bundesliga are more or less the same (slightly more goals in Italy).

La Liga is by far the league with the fewest goals of the "big 5".

So to the extent that tells you anything about how easy/difficult it is to score goals - the world has now gone upside down.

 

[Islay1989]

Perisic might be the most unheralded top player in the world. Plays whereever he is asked for, cannon in his right leg, even better left, amazing in the air, great when defending and runs like a mad man.