Gretzky/McDavid/Messier/??? Versus Lemieux/Crosby/Malkin/Francis

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

I might not know anything about hockey but I definately know he’s the best player ever and better then Lemieux was even if its only by a small margin

Now your starting to make sense there lil guy

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Lemieux=Gretzky
Crosby>mcdavid
Messier>Malkin
Francis>

Lemieux isn’t equal to Gretzky. Maybe if you use what if’s, which is the only way you can. Too bad what ifs never happened.

 

[Cotton]

Wayne


Lemieux
Sid
Mcdavid
Malkin

Francis
Who cares.

Ill take the team with a prime 99 over anybody. He can turn a 4th liner into a decent player

Even if you want to put that much seperation between Mario and Wayne, you then need to put at least as much between Mario and everyone else for it to not look stupid.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Anybody who says “Gretzky is so much better than everyone on this list” while said list contains Lemieux cannot be taken seriously. NOBODY who actually knows hockey. Gms, players, coaches, would ever utter those words

Lemieux=Gretzky
Crosby>mcdavid
Messier>Malkin
Francis>

Sorry you didn't get to watch them play and get all your hockey knowledge from TSN or a forum. Really tough luck there bud.

Gretzky > Lemieux and its not even debatable by those who actually know the game.

 

[thadd]

Confirmed recent sighting of our beloved captain "Dough" Weight and as you can see, he has gained some... Oilers Captain - 1999-2001

*Shoutout to the no helmet era

This is by far and beyond the best response ever from the spelling police! Correction accepted!!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Exactly why I said Lemieux needed Francis.

I did vote for the Pens.
But the greatness of Gretzky and Messier make it a tough choice.

By your own logic, Gretzky "needed" Messier as much as Lemieux "needed" Francis.

What I mean is there's so much to be excited about regarding the other players. Who cares about Francis?

Gretzky/Lemieux
even Crosby/Malkin....certainly McDavid and what's to come, or Messier and his legendary status.

The question is which would you rather have. Pick the group that excites you the most. The group that you're more a fan of, the group you think will mesh better, the group you think will break more records....don't make the decision based on a 4th line center.

It'd be like me making a poll asking if you rather pick McDavid/Drai or Eichel/Dahlin - and you picking one or the other because of who the 4th line winger on a team is. I just don't get that line of thinking

That "4th line center" was an elite defensive player who scored 100 points 3 times.

The difference between Francis and whoever the Oilers put at 4C is bigger than the difference at any other position in this comparison.

Anybody who has Lemieux near Gretzky’s level should not be taken seriously since Wayne has more assists then Lemieux has points among other things

Paul Coffey has more assists than Bobby Orr has points. I don't think you've thought this through.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Sorry you didn't get to watch them play and get all your hockey knowledge from TSN or a forum. Really tough luck there bud.

Gretzky > Lemieux and its not even debatable by those who actually know the game.

Hahah love how he says “you don’t watch hockey” then immediately puts Lemieux=Gretzky.

 

[dr robbie]

Gretzky > Lemieux
McDavid < Crosby (currently)
Messier >= Malkin (its definitely getting closer)
??? < Francis

Good poll overall and honestly pretty close. Yes, Gretzky is better than Lemieux. Don't have to be ashamed to admit it. Giving Lemieux the best benefit of the doubt almost makes him equal to Gretzky, but Gretzky came in with the perfect skill set, on the perfect team, with the perfect timing in a high scoring era to accomplish what he did. Lemieux did what he did with lots of obstacles to overcome. And someone mentioned PPG as an argument for Gretzky which I thought was funny. Lemieux retired with over 2PPG when he retired the first time, which was actually higher than Gretzky. It only dipped because he came back to let his son Austin watch him play after over 3 years of retirement (and he still looked like a man among boys out there).

Crosby's career is better than McDavid's at this point. Like Lemieux, Crosby's dealt with a lot of injuries as well and has succeeded. McDavid has the potential to overtake him, but have to give the edge to Crosby at this point.

Messier has always been a hard one for me to rank. I hated him. Almost everything about him. But, he's a great player and was still able to succeeded after being separated from Gretzky. Malkin does pretty good with or without Crosby in the lineup. Has success of his own despite being in Crosby's shadow. Can definitely carry the team when needed. Still, I think Mess was better.

Francis is severely underrated on these boards. He was the Penguins for awhile. About as well-rounded as a center can be. He was offensively capable and defensively responsible. Not sure who you slot in for number 4 with the Oilers (Weight probably?) but Francis was better.

I'm torn. Flip a coin

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Hahah love how he says “you don’t watch hockey” then immediately puts Lemieux=Gretzky.

I know right? Just bizarre stuff you can't make up.

 

[Lauro]

Gretzky

 

[McVespa99]

LOL, you forget that Lemieux came back from cancer and played, and also played through terrible back injuries. Still he put up legendary numbers. Get your facts straight next time. Mario is the only other player in history to come close to Wayne’s career highs in points, not for nothing.

I can’t believe how many people here seem to underrate 66’s play. He was very very close to Wayne imo, and was bigger and stronger. Even when his body was broken down he was still putting up stupid numbers.

LOL, I didnt forget anything. That is why I said choose his 10 best years. His 10 healthiest years. Or make it 8 or 6 or 9. Whatever you want. There is just no comparison no matter how you slice it. One thing you are correct about. Mario was a hell of a player. Top 3 all time for sure. But no Gretzky. Comparing Marios single best season to Gretzkys normal season is dissingenuous.
So get your facts straight.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Lemieux isn’t equal to Gretzky. Maybe if you use what if’s, which is the only way you can. Too bad what ifs never happened.

And remember, what ifs are only for Lemieux. He gets every health benefit, etc while Gretzky gets none..even then Gretzky is still better.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Gretzky > Lemieux
McDavid < Crosby (currently)
Messier >= Malkin (its definitely getting closer)
??? < Francis

Good poll overall and honestly pretty close. Yes, Gretzky is better than Lemieux. Don't have to be ashamed to admit it. Giving Lemieux the best benefit of the doubt almost makes him equal to Gretzky, but Gretzky came in with the perfect skill set, on the perfect team, with the perfect timing in a high scoring era to accomplish what he did. Lemieux did what he did with lots of obstacles to overcome. And someone mentioned PPG as an argument for Gretzky which I thought was funny. Lemieux retired with over 2PPG when he retired the first time, which was actually higher than Gretzky. It only dipped because he came back to let his son Austin watch him play after over 3 years of retirement (and he still looked like a man among boys out there).

Crosby's career is better than McDavid's at this point. Like Lemieux, Crosby's dealt with a lot of injuries as well and has succeeded. McDavid has the potential to overtake him, but have to give the edge to Crosby at this point.

Messier has always been a hard one for me to rank. I hated him. Almost everything about him. But, he's a great player and was still able to succeeded after being separated from Gretzky. Malkin does pretty good with or without Crosby in the lineup. Has success of his own despite being in Crosby's shadow. Can definitely carry the team when needed. Still, I think Mess was better.

Francis is severely underrated on these boards. He was the Penguins for awhile. About as well-rounded as a center can be. He was offensively capable and defensively responsible. Not sure who you slot in for number 4 with the Oilers (Weight probably?) but Francis was better.

I'm torn. Flip a coin

The only reason for that is because Gretzky has ~6-7 extra regular SEASONS of wear and tear on his body. Compare their PPG at any equal amount of games and Gretzky is comfortably ahead.

 

[Juxta Position]

Let me know when McOverrrated gets past the second round...

how many years did it take lemieux to get past the second round?.....

in case you forgot, I'll just leave this here

Mario Lemieux hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com

 

[DitchMarner]

Let me know when McOverrrated gets past the second round...

He might have done so in his first trip to the playoffs (and second year in the League) if that Ducks goal that was scored while Kesler was grabbing EDM's goalie's pad had been disallowed in the 2017 playoffs.

 

[Master P]

I'll take the group with 99

 

[La Masse]

By your own logic, Gretzky "needed" Messier as much as Lemieux "needed" Francis.



That "4th line center" was an elite defensive player who scored 100 points 3 times.

The difference between Francis and whoever the Oilers put at 4C is bigger than the difference at any other position in this comparison.



Paul Coffey has more assists than Bobby Orr has points. I don't think you've thought this through.

You’re right I probably could have used something else to make my point. Fact is Lemieux was probably more gifted then Wayne but Wayne elevated the play of his teammates like no other. It is pretty incredible that even if you take his goals away he would be the all-time scoring leader. It just shows you how dominant 99 was and how he dominated his peers

 

[treple13]

Is this question at their peak or over their entire career?

I'll take the Penguins if we are talking peak, but Oilers if we are talking career

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You’re right I probably could have used something else to make my point. Fact is Lemieux was probably more gifted then Wayne but Wayne elevated the play of his teammates like no other. It is pretty incredible that even if you take his goals away he would be the all-time scoring leader. It just shows you how dominant 99 was and how he dominated his peers

Gretzky's combo of dominance and durability is incredible, absolutely. But some transcendent talents aren't fortunate enough to have their rides last as long, which shouldn't take away from how brilliant players like Orr and Lemieux were.

 

[La Masse]

Gretzky's combo of dominance and durability is incredible, absolutely. But some transcendent talents aren't fortunate enough to have their rides last as long, which shouldn't take away from how brilliant players like Orr and Lemieux were.

I agree and I have them 2nd and 3rd in all-time list and you could make an argument for both of them being possibly being better talents then 99 with greater attributes but when you consider everything I find it hard not to put 99 at the top.

This poll will be interesting when Sid’s and Mdavid’s career are done

 

[blogofmike]

Gretzky and Lemieux were close head to head in the sense that if you give Gretzky ZERO points for all his Oilers games, 14 games of Kings/Blues/Rangers Gretzky (who is 35+ years old for 5 of the 14 games) looks almost identical to 25 games of Lemieux. Except Gretzky's a huge plus instead of a huge minus.

 

[edog37]

How is LEMieux the GOAT if Malkin has no equivalent?

Referring to depth chart comparison between the two teams. There were matchups, but Edmonton doesn't have center depth on their all-time roster to have someone matchup opposite Malkin.

 

[edog37]

Why does Pittsburgh's side have 4 players and the Oilers 3? Go 3-3 or 4-4?

better overall depth..

 

[ManofSteel55]

Gretzky tips the balance here. Greatest player of all time.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I wouldn’t dare speaking if I were you, considering you just posted that “gretzky is so much better than anyone else on this list”. Lemieux is on the list. The gap between Gretzky and Lemieux, whatever it may be, is not close to being as big as the words “so much better” suggest.

The gap between Gretzky and anyone is huge. People forget how good he was, and for how long. Even if you are arguing that Lemeiux and Gretzky had similar peaks (which I won't get in to), Gretzky's longevity puts him far and away ahead as the greatest. Lemieux is about as close as it gets to Gretzky. But he still isn't very close.