Greatest Goal Scorers Of All-Time: #1

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Richard, Howe, Hull, Wayne, Mario, Ovechkin

All have good arguments for greatest/best depending on how you define "greatest".

Richard's playoff goalscoring added to his generational regular season accolades
Howe's elite prime and longevity
Hull's dominance in his prime and arguably highest peak season in 65/66
Wayne's raw totals in one season, arguably highest peak season, and total all-time
Mario's GPG throughout his career
Ovechkin's elite peak and consistently elite and long prime - the Gordie Howe of goalscorers

I like Mario as the "Best" and Wayne, Hull, and OV battling it out for "greatest."

It should be noted though, OV is the only player listed that doesn't crack the Top Ten players all-time.

No, it shouldn't be noted since the question is about goal scorers. OV is ahead of Rocket anyways, anyone who ranks him behind is 100% delusional. Put OVs resume beside Bobby Hull and there's no difference. Now consider OV is in a 30 team international league vs Hull in a 6 team Canada only league and it's obvious OV is at worst equal to Hull. So if Hull and Rocket are top 10, so is OV.

 

[amnesiac]

No, it shouldn't be noted since the question is about goal scorers. OV is ahead of Rocket anyways, anyone who ranks him behind is 100% delusional. Put OVs resume beside Bobby Hull and there's no difference. Now consider OV is in a 30 team international league vs Hull in a 6 team Canada only league and it's obvious OV is at worst equal to Hull. So if Hull and Rocket are top 10, so is OV.

I have Ovie ahead of Hull, but thats a dumb argument. Its along the same lines as those who talk about McDavid or Crosby being greater than Gretzky and Orr since they faced worse D and goaltending in the 70s and 80s. Do you think say Jagr is a greater goalscorer than Hull too?? You can Argue Ovie playing in a 30 team league faces much more diluted D. Imagine how crazy the defence would be in a 6 team league today?.... Point is, you can only compare them to their PEERS AT THE TIME.

Ovie is/was far and above his peers at goalscoring.... As was Gretzky and Hull in their time.

 

[Stamkos4life]

66 - 8 - 99

 

[Randyne]

You can Argue Ovie playing in a 30 team league faces much more diluted D. Imagine how crazy the defence would be in a 6 team league today?

That's a wrong logic.
Even if D now is much more diluted (of course not) there are 2941 skaters playing against them in Ovi era. They all have a chance to be the scoring leader.
Even if D was crazy in a 6 team league there were 680 skaters playing against them in Hull era. They all had a chance to be the scoring leader.

It doesn't matter diluted D or not, all skaters have a chance to score a goal and Ovechkin has 4.3 times more opponents to beat than Hull ever had.

 

[AD1066]

Until Ovi breaks the record, it's Gretzky

So two goals would ultimately flip the balance?

893: Gretzky is greater
894: They're equal
895: Ovechkin is greater

 

[Primary Assist]

So two goals would ultimately flip the balance?

893: Gretzky is greater
894: They're equal
895: Ovechkin is greater

Yep. If a team loses 1-0 in game 7 of the Finals but plays better than the other team, would we give the losing team the Cup anyway? Sometimes that 1 goal makes all the difference

 

[Holymakinaw]

This is a new polls series.

Who is the greatest goal scorer of all-time?


Apply your own criteria.

The one with the most goals of all time. 894, i think it is.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Ovi the goat

 

[jj cale]

It's already been said here but I'll second it.

Greatest: Ovechkin Best: Lemieux

 

[AD1066]

Yep. If a team loses 1-0 in game 7 of the Finals but plays better than the other team, would we give the losing team the Cup anyway? Sometimes that 1 goal makes all the difference

But you're talking about a single game with a tangible outcome vs. two careers spanning across five decades, so I don't think the analogy holds. There's no argument over who won a game after the fact, but a concept like "greatness" is more subjective and deserves a closer look than just comparing raw totals and calling it a day.

There were thousands of NHL games played during Gretzky's 20s, when he did the majority of his goal scoring, and even if you remove him from the equation entirely, scoring was still 30-40% higher across the board. The average shot taken by the average player was more likely to go in the net because goaltending equipment and techniques were more primitive. A larger number of players routinely hit 50+ goals in a season and there was a greater gap between top-six and bottom-six talent.

The relative difficulty of reaching 895 goals has been higher for Ovechkin for these reasons and if he finishes anywhere above 800 goals, I'm already inclined to crown him the greatest.

 

[amnesiac]

That's a wrong logic.
Even if D now is much more diluted (of course not) there are 2941 skaters playing against them in Ovi era. They all have a chance to be the scoring leader.
Even if D was crazy in a 6 team league there were 680 skaters playing against them in Hull era. They all had a chance to be the scoring leader.

It doesn't matter diluted D or not, all skaters have a chance to score a goal and Ovechkin has 4.3 times more opponents to beat than Hull ever had.

I agree, but so you acutally think Hull had it "easier" playing in a 6 team league for 8 seasons? I think thats a ridiculous statement.

Hull was facing 30 of the greatest defencemen in the league over a full season. If Ovie was facing 5 "super teams" all season, he wouldve surely scored a little less..... its just a dumb argument when people start coming eras.

 

[Randyne]

If Ovie was facing 5 "super teams" all season, he wouldve surely be scoring a little less.

So does everyone else on the same portion, and Ovechkin gap above else would've remain.

 

[amnesiac]

So does everyone else on the same portion, and Ovechkin gap above else would've remain.

I agree.... I think you have to compare a given player to others in their given era.

The other poster was basically saying Hull had it easier by playing in the O6.

 

[Randyne]

I agree.... I think you have to compare a given player to others in their given era.
The other poster was basically saying Hull had it easier by playing in the O6.

He was right. Number of players was 4x lower. Therefore he had a better chance to remain on top.

 

[amnesiac]

He was right. Number of players was 4x lower. Therefore he had a better chance to remain on top.

He was still well above the 2nd and 3rd best scorers in the NHL much like Ovie has been..... if they did have 30 teams he wouldve still be the best goalscorer of course, and wouldve scored even more given the diluted league and worse goalies.

If todays game was reduced to 6 teams with Ovie, there would still be Matthews, McDavid, Drai etc scoring a ton. Expanding to 30 teams gives rise to more 20+ goal scorers, but there wouldnt be anyone challenging Ovie all of a sudden.... Same reasoning with Hull.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

It's Lemieux. His adjusted GPG is better than anyone else and he played long enough to justify it as his default scoring ability despite his relative lack of retro-Rockets (of which he still has 3).

 

[Bure80]

Bure 59 and 58 goal years with a piss poor Panthers team at the peak of the DPE are 2 or the best goalscoring seasons ever.

Not even Selannes 76 G season tops them.

I bet even Ovechkin wouldnt come close to 59 goals with the Panthers 00/01. He had 55 points more as 2nd best scorer on the team.
Because of injuries and less games maybe he is a bit underrated. I have no doubts a more healthy Bure had a 700 goal career with half of his playing time in the DPE.

 

[amnesiac]

I bet even Ovechkin wouldnt come close to 59 goals with the Panthers 00/01. He had 55 points more as 2nd best scorer on the team.
Because of injuries and less games maybe he is a bit underrated. I have no doubts a more healthy Bure had a 700 goal career with half of his playing time in the DPE.

could very well be... we'll never know. Problem is too that he probably gave too much in his prime which led to al his injuries. Same thing with Orr.

If they played a little "less hard" maybe they couldve played 15+ seasons. I always compare that with guys like Sakic, Lidstrom, Yzerman, even Jagr.... they didnt hit or have explosive speed, and probably played very long careers because of it.

 

[Primary Assist]

But you're talking about a single game with a tangible outcome vs. two careers spanning across five decades, so I don't think the analogy holds. There's no argument over who won a game after the fact, but a concept like "greatness" is more subjective and deserves a closer look than just comparing raw totals and calling it a day.

There were thousands of NHL games played during Gretzky's 20s, when he did the majority of his goal scoring, and even if you remove him from the equation entirely, scoring was still 30-40% higher across the board. The average shot taken by the average player was more likely to go in the net because goaltending equipment and techniques were more primitive. A larger number of players routinely hit 50+ goals in a season and there was a greater gap between top-six and bottom-six talent.

The relative difficulty of reaching 895 goals has been higher for Ovechkin for these reasons and if he finishes anywhere above 800 goals, I'm already inclined to crown him the greatest.

Very well argued, thank you for the substantive response

 

[ole ole]

This is a new polls series.

Who is the greatest goal scorer of all-time?


Apply your own criteria.

My criteria. The guy that holds the record. Gretz

 

[ole ole]

Kind of telling that Bossy has 2 votes and Bobby Hull has 0.

Once again, Bossy proves to be the most overrated goal-scorer of all-time.

Still a top-10 and closer to 5th than 10th spot.

As for the poll, I voted Ovechkin. Could have gone with Hull or even Lemieux.

Bossy had 9 straight 50 or more goal seasons from the day he starting playing in the league.
No other player in the history of the NHL has ever done it and was on his way to a 10th but his career was abruptly ended.

And you claim he's over-rated.

 

[wetcoast]

I bet even Ovechkin wouldnt come close to 59 goals with the Panthers 00/01. He had 55 points more as 2nd best scorer on the team.
Because of injuries and less games maybe he is a bit underrated. I have no doubts a more healthy Bure had a 700 goal career with half of his playing time in the DPE.

I thought long and hard about Bure but took Bobby Hull but context does matter for all of these players and team mates volume shooting, longevity, adjusted goals etc all matter but the arguments at each stage ( even #1) are still there at every vote and it becomes like a pyramid from the top down with each vote after #1.

 

[Bure80]

could very well be... we'll never know. Problem is too that he probably gave too much in his prime which led to al his injuries. Same thing with Orr.

If they played a little "less hard" maybe they couldve played 15+ seasons. I always compare that with guys like Sakic, Lidstrom, Yzerman, even Jagr.... they didnt hit or have explosive speed, and probably played very long careers because of it.

Well in my opinion you cant just play with like 90% percent in pro sports and he wouldnt be the same if he tried to. Bure was injury prone. Maybe he could play more games without the first knee injury. We will never know. Anyway i think there is no doubt that he had a few 50 goal+ seasons more without the injuries.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

I have Ovie ahead of Hull, but thats a dumb argument. Its along the same lines as those who talk about McDavid or Crosby being greater than Gretzky and Orr since they faced worse D and goaltending in the 70s and 80s. Do you think say Jagr is a greater goalscorer than Hull too?? You can Argue Ovie playing in a 30 team league faces much more diluted D. Imagine how crazy the defence would be in a 6 team league today?.... Point is, you can only compare them to their PEERS AT THE TIME.

Ovie is/was far and above his peers at goalscoring.... As was Gretzky and Hull in their time.

It's a perfectly valid argument. There were no Europeans (or Americans) in Hulls NHL. OV in 09 beat all Canadian players but lost the ross to Malkin. That wouldn't have happened in Hulls NHL. OV is facing a way bigger talent pool which means there are more chances of a random player getting hot and finishing higher than OV in goals/pts. Take away Europeans and Americans and OV has a better resume than Hull.

I don't know what the bolded is about since I said nothing like that.

 

[blundluntman]

So two goals would ultimately flip the balance?

893: Gretzky is greater
894: They're equal
895: Ovechkin is greater

It's not about the number of goals, it's about the record and actually pacing for it. Lets be real, Ovi is great but outside of adjusted stats, he has as much of a case as Bobby Hull. Gretzky has every goal scoring record in the book and is probably the objective best goal scorer no matter what, Ovi needs that record if you're gonna convince me he's greater than Gretzky.