Great Fight Debate - II

[KrejciMVP]

There was nothing wrong, or predatory at all about the last hit Krejci took. He came across the middle and got hit. If you think having any tough guys on your team prevents that hit, you're sorely mistaken. And there was no response there because none was needed. It was a perfectly fine hit. You want to say the Bruins should be more on the giving end than the receiving end, I'll be 100% in agreement with you. But both teams are going to get hit, and my original point is that it's not solely the Bruins that this is an issue for.

I never said they weren't clean. They were clean HR hits designed to send Donnys weak team to the lottery searching for a new center.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

So if you believe that, why would getting guys like that change anything, given that per your example, even a rough and tough roster can and was intimidated by one goon?

John Scott was an extreme case. he was the most intimidating fighter in the league and was competent enough to catch guys in open ice and KO them too.

Nobody here is saying the Bruins need to engage in an arms race to combat a theoretical John Scott. They're just saying that the team as currently constructed lacks the sort of push back that can keep some of the more physical teams a bit more honest.

I was really dismissive of this notion when Colt posted the first thread on this subject, but as time has gone on I've moved in the other direction (maybe not all the way, but I see the value now). And like the handful of reasonable posters here who are calling for the Bruins to get tougher, I am not saying they should sacrifice overall quality to do so. But for a team that is arguably already icing two 4th lines, it's not like they'd be sacrificing a ton of skill to bring in a guy like Kassian or whoever. Nobody's talking about replacing Pasta or Debrusk here.

 

[LSCII]

because Lucic could hang with Orr. Colton Orr was a great fighter and tough guy, but wasn't as scary as John Scott (or Georges Laraque who Lucic did get intimidated by)

Maybe. Or maybe he realized him going off for 5 minutes because of BGL or John Scott was a terrible trade off, and it wasn't worth it? Even if didn't want to go with Scott, plenty of other guys in the league have and did go with him. So to say he was some kind of deterrent is misguided, IMO. I mean, this is a guy that had 45 NHL fights, so clearly people were willing, no? I get that he "won" a ton of those fights, but regardless of the outcome, people were still willing to go with him.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

I never said they weren't clean. They were clean HR hits designed to send Donnys weak team to the lottery searching for a new center.

OK, so we're in agreement that they were clean. I still believe having a tough guy(s) wouldn't prevent these hits. I'm with you on needing to be the aggressor though.

 

[KrejciMVP]

The good ole days when the Bruins made sense. Dont need a John Scott to do this.

 

[Sheppy]

The good ole days when the Bruins made sense. Dont need a John Scott to do this.

I was at that game, actually. That was a good one. Marchand went, Lucic and Vandermeer had a long one and Horton plunks Peckham. Good times!

That was the definition of “team toughness” - It’s very much lacking with this team.

 

[Tmac37]

In that video its now Marchand or Nordstrom fighting to defend Krejci's honor.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I was at that game, actually. That was a good one. Marchand went, Lucic and Vandermeer had a long one and Horton plunks Peckham. Good times!

That was the definition of “team toughness” - It’s very much lacking with this team.

We were promised this regime change would be good after Chia missed the playoffs once by a point but when Charlie Jacob's took over the team has been gutted of everything that made it great and the core has been left out to dry.

 

[KrejciMVP]

In that video its now Marchand or Nordstrom fighting to defend Krejci's honor.

Tragic comedy

 

[Over the volcano]

Detroit does it again the next night - Bertuzzi looking at a suspension.

 

[Sheppy]

In that video its now Marchand or Nordstrom fighting to defend Krejci's honor.

Donato is due!

 

[Glove Malfunction]

I was at that game, actually. That was a good one. Marchand went, Lucic and Vandermeer had a long one and Horton plunks Peckham. Good times!

That was the definition of “team toughness” - It’s very much lacking with this team.

This is where this thread gets derailed. You describe a game where there were three fights as the "definition of 'team toughness'". Toughness is more than fighting, which I think you've already agreed to. Your definition above is where people get the notion that you and others are arguing only for "MOAR FIGHTZ", which (for most of you anyway) isn't completely accurate. I think pretty much everyone here is on board with more push back, more aggressiveness, which can be accomplished without fighting. Not that I don't enjoy the good tilt, I just recognize the league wants it to go away, because they believe it shows they're doing something about the concussion issue, even though fighting is just a small part of that issue.

For better or worse, the entire league is heading away from that type of team.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

This is where this thread gets derailed. You describe a game where there were three fights as the "definition of 'team toughness'". Toughness is more than fighting, which I think you've already agreed to. Your definition above is where people get the notion that you and others are arguing only for "MOAR FIGHTZ", which (for most of you anyway) isn't completely accurate. I think pretty much everyone here is on board with more push back, more aggressiveness, which can be accomplished without fighting. Not that I don't enjoy the good tilt, I just recognize the league wants it to go away, because they believe it shows they're doing something about the concussion issue, even though fighting is just a small part of that issue.

For better or worse, the entire league is heading away from that type of team.

Also failing to see how that example above defines "Team toughness" but Marchand/Nordstrom/Krug/etc. standing up for teammates and such doesn't define "team toughness" because they aren't fighters?

 

[KrejciMVP]

video seemed straight forward, Brickly noted it to at the end, early in the game Islanders trying to set the physical tone by going after Krejci, Horton says we're having none of that.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Also failing to see how that example above defines "Team toughness" but Marchand/Nordstrom/Krug/etc. standing up for teammates and such doesn't define "team toughness" because they aren't fighters?

it's not that their not tough, but I don't think most teams are sending out 40 goal scorers like Marchand to fight.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

it's not that their not tough, but I don't think most teams are sending out 40 goal scorers like Marchand to fight.

And Marchand's two fights this year were because of situations where he was the player on the ice. It's not like he was out there seeking a scrap.

 

[KrejciMVP]

And Marchand's two fights this year were because of situations where he was the player on the ice. It's not like he was out there seeking a scrap.

leading the league in penalty min is not ideal for a scorer IMO, rather they be on the ice

 

[Sheppy]

And Marchand's two fights this year were because of situations where he was the player on the ice. It's not like he was out there seeking a scrap.

And his fight with Smith was like “well, shit... this is going to suck” he didn’t want to do it, but knew he would be the only one to step up.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

leading the league in penalty min is not ideal for a scorer IMO, rather they be on the ice

And he leads the league in PIMS because 20/70 came from two misconducts for nonsense. Not from two fighting majors. You continue to ignore points made and jump to other arguments. What the f*** did your response have to do with what I said?

 

[Sheppy]

It seems as though the last few seasons the Bruins have lost an insane amount of players due to injury. Does anyone think it MAY have something to do with how soft the team is built now?

 

[KrejciMVP]

And he leads the league in PIMS because 20/70 came from two misconducts for nonsense. Not from two fighting majors. You continue to ignore points made and jump to other arguments. What the **** did your response have to do with what I said?

your original question was why arent Marchand Krug and Nordstrom fighting considered team toughness. I said they are tough, but a player like Marchand should be scoring rather than being in the penalty box acting as our fighter/enforcer leading the league in penalty min and teams don't usually send scorers to play that role

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

And his fight with Smith was like “well, ****... this is going to suck” he didn’t want to do it, but knew he would be the only one to step up.

He. Was. On. The. Ice. When. It. Happened.

Why does this fact falls on deaf ears?

This is really a no win situation. Marchand steps up? Complaints are made that the wrong guy stepped up for Grzelcyk. Marchand (hypothetically) doesn't step up? This place goes bonkers that no one steps up for Grzelcyk.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

your original question was why arent Marchand Krug and Nordstrom fighting considered team toughness. I said they are tough, but a player like Marchand should be scoring rather than being in the penalty box acting as our fighter/enforcer leading the league in penalty min and teams don't usually send scorers to play that role

And I just showed you that Marchand leads the league in PIMS because he has 20 minutes in misconduct penalties. His flag waving in the box, and his ridiculous mocking during the Nashville game. So it's of his own doing... Not because he's trying to fight.

 

[KrejciMVP]

He. Was. On. The. Ice. When. It. Happened.

Why does this fact falls on deaf ears?

This is really a no win situation. Marchand steps up? Complaints are made that the wrong guy stepped up for Grzelcyk. Marchand (hypothetically) doesn't step up? This place goes bonkers that no one steps up for Grzelcyk.

I was at that game, everyone laughed in the stands bc it was more clownish that Marchand was the one who had to respond to the cheap shot. He is a lot smaller than Smith so nobody took the fight seriously

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I was at that game, everyone laughed in the stands bc it was more clownish that Marchand was the one who had to respond to the cheap shot. He is a lot smaller than Smith so nobody took the fight seriously

Okay, dude. Cool. You continue to ignore the point, which is your go-to. You would lose an argument with yourself.