Great Fight Debate - II

[KrejciMVP]

S0 far as Bergy being out for a month, it just happened and the Bruins, Chara included, went quietly into the night with all the dignity and grace of the 2013 Sabres.

I guess it comes down to what an organization thinks can win you games which is $$, then playoff series, and then a cup if you are one of the teams that spends to cap in the NHL.

In the "modern era", since 2000 I guess, there has not been one team that I can name that has won the cup with that I would call a strickly "speed and skill" roster. They have all had some mix of toughness and one or two heavy hitters that as far as I can tell that kept teams honest for the most part especially in the regular season.

This is critical to me because the injury that Bergeron suffered a few weeks ago was a hit IMHO would say the Bruins of 2008-2015 would have expected in the Stanley Cup playoffs, not a regular season game against a non-rival in Dallas. Yes, I'm saying that there was respect, fear, whatever for the Bruins star players in the regular season for sure a few years ago.

I think there are many factors to take into account for the Bruins current roster composition and at the top I place Sweeney and Neely. I think Sweeney has over-rated the speed and skill ratio a team needs win over a toughness (grindy), speed, and then some skill along the bottom six. Marchand and his antics have been an issue with the league and the perception of the Bruins amongst the officials for good reason. The Bruins beleving their own hype about speedy players with zero jam in their game and how they can contribute in a legit Stanley Cup franchise is starting to rear its ugly head.

So far Sweeney's draft record, trade record, and on the ice product are lacking in a great many areas including a roster that generates the respect nessessary for keeping a total scrub like Borowiechy from ruining the rookie season and maybe career of one of your top two D prospects.

Yes, the rest of the season should be a war with Ottawa. Suspensions all around for players in your bottom 6 and bottom pair D. Every game.

Definitely no quick fix to solve what ales the Bruins lack of size and toughness..it took years to build that 2011 team which had the combination of both skill and grit throughout 4 lines. This is the glass house Donny Charlie and Neely built and we are stuck with it. Jacob's will look at the bottom line at the end of the day. The Bruins did a 2.0 rating Sat night so excitement is trending downward.

Look at philly, near the bottom of the league in standings and barely fights anymore. Talk about boring

 

[Sheppy]

When healthy BOS’s D:

Chara: 6’9, 250
McAvoy: 6’, 210
Carlo: 6’5”, 212
Moore: 6’2”, 210
Krug: 5’9”, 186
Miller: 6’2”, 210

Grizz: 5’9”, 174
UV: 6’1”, 185
Lauzon: 6’1”, 205

I have seen Lauzon and I think he’s closer to 6’3” than 6’1”.

Anyway, Stralman is the smallest Tampa D at 5’11”, 190, and he’s not that much bigger than Krug. Other than that, it’s pretty even.

I'm quite content with our toughness on D, especially with Chara and Miller both healthy. McAvoy hits hard, too. Carlo is developing an edge to his game as well, and that's awesome.

My issue is more in the forward group. They're very undersized. I'd like to see them mix in a guy in the bottom 6 (I don't know, a 15-15-30 type guy) who can provide a bit of nasty and not be a detriment. I don't think there's really a player in the league today who "can't play hockey" - I think Acciari should be busting his ass, because I think he could be on borrowed time.

 

[Gordoff]

I'm quite content with our toughness on D, especially with Chara and Miller both healthy. McAvoy hits hard, too. Carlo is developing an edge to his game as well, and that's awesome.

My issue is more in the forward group. They're very undersized. I'd like to see them mix in a guy in the bottom 6 (I don't know, a 15-15-30 type guy) who can provide a bit of nasty and not be a detriment. I don't think there's really a player in the league today who "can't play hockey" - I think Acciari should be busting his ass, because I think he could be on borrowed time.

A half dozen of those forwards should be on borrowed time. They don't score, they don't hit, they turn away from a hit and surrender the puck. The word is out, the Bruins are soft up front.

 

[Sheppy]

A half dozen of those forwards should be on borrowed time. They don't score, they don't hit, they turn away from a hit and surrender the puck. The word is out, the Bruins are soft up front.

I agree. Gotta think there needs to be some urgency among certain players...

Donato seemed to get the message and has had a good two games since his stint in Providence.

 

[Salem13]

When healthy BOS’s D:

Chara: 6’9, 250 Mar 18, 1977
McAvoy: 6’, 210 Dec 21, 1997
Carlo: 6’5”, 212 Nov 26, 1996
Moore: 6’2”, 210 Nov 19, 1990
Krug: 5’9”, 186 Apr 12, 1991
Miller: 6’2”, 210 Nov 15, 1987

Grizz: 5’9”, 174 Jan 5, 1994
UV: 6’1”, 185 Jan 1, 1999
Lauzon: 6’1”, 205 Apr 28, 1997

I have seen Lauzon and I think he’s closer to 6’3” than 6’1”.

Anyway, Stralman is the smallest Tampa D at 5’11”, 190, and he’s not that much bigger than Krug. Other than that, it’s pretty even.

It's not even at all! Not even close!
This is a football team.

Erik Cernak 6' 4" 225 May 28, 1997
Braydon Coburn 6' 5" 223 Feb 27, 1985
Dan Girardi 6' 1" 212 Apr 29, 1984
Victor Hedman 6' 6" 223 Dec 18, 1990
Slater Koekkoek 6' 2" 193 Feb 18, 1994
Ryan McDonagh 6' 1" 215 Jun 13, 1989
Mikhail Sergachev 6' 3" 215 Jun 25, 1998
Anton Stralman * 5' 11" 190 Aug 1, 1986

And aside from the size there's also the age, most of these guys are 80's, aside from Chara we have a bunch of kids.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

It's not even at all! Not even close!
This is a football team.

Erik Cernak 6' 4" 225 May 28, 1997
Braydon Coburn 6' 5" 223 Feb 27, 1985
Dan Girardi 6' 1" 212 Apr 29, 1984
Victor Hedman 6' 6" 223 Dec 18, 1990
Slater Koekkoek 6' 2" 193 Feb 18, 1994
Ryan McDonagh 6' 1" 215 Jun 13, 1989
Mikhail Sergachev 6' 3" 215 Jun 25, 1998
Anton Stralman * 5' 11" 190 Aug 1, 1986

And aside from the size there's also the age, most of these guys are 80's, aside from Chara we have a bunch of kids.

Cernak is not a regular, neither is Koekkoek.

The Top 6:

Chara>>Hedman (+3” and 30 lbs for Z)

McAvoy=Girardi (+1” for DG)

Carlo=Coburn (+8 lbs for BC)

Miller=McD (+1” for Mills)

Moore=Sergachev (+1” for MS)

Krug<Stralman (+2” for AS)

Who cares about the age, you told me how big the Tampa D is. The reality is that Boston and Tampa’s D groups are similar sizes.

 

[Salem13]

Cernak is not a regular, neither is Koekkoek.

The Top 6:

Chara>>Hedman (+3” and 30 lbs for Z)

McAvoy=Girardi (+1” for DG)

Carlo=Coburn (+8 lbs for BC)

Miller=McD (+1” for Mills)

Moore=Sergachev (+1” for MS)

Krug<Stralman (+2” for AS)

Who cares about the age, you told me how big the Tampa D is. The reality is that Boston and Tampa’s D groups are similar sizes.

Gee, why'd ya leave out Gryz?

And with who cares about age, lol, men vs boys, can I show you to the term manhandled?

Most of the Bruins you mention arent playing any hockey right now and the largest one, not for some time.

Oh and the punked us last year 4-1.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

The whole hockey world knows it. As we argue if we want to be tough or tough fighting or whatever nonsense, Teams are lining us up or doing whatever they can get away with. Expect this to continue

I know you watch more than the Bruins, so it's surprising you think this is something that's contained only to the Bruins. It's league wide actually.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

This guy says it's about 7$ hot dogs and 5$ cokes!

And that was in 1998!

 

[Gordoff]

I know you watch more than the Bruins, so it's surprising you think this is something that's contained only to the Bruins. It's league wide actually.

Maybe because he is concerned mostly with the Bruins?!?

 

[Glove Malfunction]

I think if you do an eye for an eye once you set yourself up for players to pass on the opportunity the next time.

I think generally speaking, history does not show that to be true.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Maybe because he is concerned mostly with the Bruins?!?

Being concerned with the Bruins and saying it like they are the only team in this situation are two different things though.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Being concerned with the Bruins and saying it like they are the only team in this situation are two different things though.

it's infuriating what's happening. The poster who talked about creating space for skill players is 100% correct when it comes to having a physical presence.. Im sure Pasta watching Krejci getting utterly destroyed 2 game in a row is going to make him think twice about making plays that put him at risk to receive the same type of hit. It's easy for us to dismiss this bc we aren't the ones putting our lives at risk receiving these HR hits or have agenda's to defend here(not saying this is you)

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

it's infuriating what's happening. The poster who talked about creating space for skill players is 100% correct when it comes to having a physical presence.. Im sure Pasta watching Krejci getting utterly destroyed 2 game in a row is going to make him think twice about making plays that put him at risk to receive the same type of hit. It's easy for us to dismiss this bc we aren't the ones putting our lives at risk receiving these HR hits or have agenda's to defend here(not saying this is you)

And having a physical player isn't going to prevent other teams from making that type of hit.

 

[KrejciMVP]

And having a physical player isn't going to prevent other teams from making that type of hit.

so since 100% aren't prevented we should let the Bruins be destroyed?

 

[Sheppy]

And having a physical player isn't going to prevent other teams from making that type of hit.

I'm not saying it does, but it plays a bit of a factor. I wouldn't downplay the impact of a physical guy who could murk you if he got his hands on you.

Look at Buffalo with John Scott (a bit of a different example as he's a pure goon) - Boston used to absolutely bully Buffalo basically every single meeting, they won like 80% of the games the past few years and dominated Buffalo physically. Buffalo sees this, addresses it with John Scott and the Bruins were absolutely neutered whenever they went into Buffalo. Scott beat the brains out of Thornton, and then made Lucic his target for a while. I think Buffalo started winning more games against the Bruins, too. Maybe Scott was a factor? Maybe Not? You can't deny that the Bruins weren't the same team when they played the Sabres, though. Remember when Lucic trucked Miller and it didn't get any response? Next game Gaustad challenged Lucic and got throttled... Lucic was actually smiling as he lined up to Gaustad because he knew he would beat the brakes off him, and he did. Sounds like this Bruins team, honestly.

Again, not saying there's a need for a goon, but there's an absolute need for a guy in the forward group who can toss 'em and/or make a statement next shift. I mean, we can sit here and say X player won't stop X player from hitting someone hard, but I'd rather have that security blanket in the lineup and not have the likes of Krug, Marchand and Nordstrom getting beat up as they try to defend them.

If I'm a tougher player and I go level one of their stars and I have to answer to Krug, Marchand or Nordstrom... Talk about getting off easy.

 

[22Brad Park]

And having a physical player isn't going to prevent other teams from making that type of hit.

Bruins are getting punked alot this year Nobody can deny that.

 

[Sheppy]

Bruins are getting punked alot this year Nobody can deny that.

And it's no surprise teams are doing it knowing that they won't have to answer to it, and if they do, they'll just speedbag whichever non fighter decides to step up. It's pretty frustrating, honestly.

Just odd that people can't see that and are making excuses for it. Media is starting to notice what a lot of us have already over the past two seasons.

 

[KrejciMVP]

And it's no surprise teams are doing it knowing that they won't have to answer to it, and if they do, they'll just speedbag whichever non fighter decides to step up. It's pretty frustrating, honestly.

Just odd that people can't see that and are making excuses for it. Media is starting to notice what a lot of us have already over the past two seasons.

I can't for the life of me see a Bruin take a big hit and just shrug it off for the greater good of the agenda, that's not what being a bruin fan is about.

 

[LSCII]

it's infuriating what's happening. The poster who talked about creating space for skill players is 100% correct when it comes to having a physical presence.. Im sure Pasta watching Krejci getting utterly destroyed 2 game in a row is going to make him think twice about making plays that put him at risk to receive the same type of hit. It's easy for us to dismiss this bc we aren't the ones putting our lives at risk receiving these HR hits or have agenda's to defend here(not saying this is you)

DK got lit up twice in two games. But those hits were both clean. Both very hard, but clean. I'd say the onus isn't on the B's front office to get a player on this roster that prevents these kinds of hits, but rather more so on DK for skating with his head down and allowing himself to get steamrolled like he did. If he's head up paying attention, neither one of those hits happens, IMO. In other words, don't put yourself in a bad position.

 

[LouJersey]

I honestly don’t know what the answer is, (if there is one) but if you don’t think the Bruins stars get run more than any team in the league I don’t know what to tell you. Ok the Devils do, that’s it. Now, there may be no answer but frustrated fans are only looking for answers while other just throw their hands up and say nothing can be done...isn’t the answer maybe somewhere in between?

 

[Sheppy]

I honestly don’t know what the answer is, (if there is one) but if you don’t think the Bruins stars get run more than any team in the league I don’t know what to tell you. Ok the Devils do, that’s it. Now, there may be no answer but frustrated fans are only looking for answers while other just throw their hands up and say nothing can be done...isn’t the answer maybe somewhere in between?

I can't remember watching a team that gets run over like this Bruins team, and I watch a TON of hockey. Mainly west coast teams like Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Winnipeg, etc.

 

[LouJersey]

And having a physical player isn't going to prevent other teams from making that type of hit.

But players who have played said that’s not true. Now obviously there are exceptions but I look at it this way.... you have 18 possible players to throw hits. Clean and dirty. Can’t it be possible that having a physical player would cuz say half those guys not target the bigger stats? Would that be worth it for you?

Again not saying there is a wrong or right but for anyone that played any level you know damn well you looked at that bench and knew when you could push the envelope and not worry about it

 

[KrejciMVP]

DK got lit up twice in two games. But those hits were both clean. Both very hard, but clean. I'd say the onus isn't on the B's front office to get a player on this roster that prevents these kinds of hits, but rather more so on DK for skating with his head down and allowing himself to get steamrolled like he did. If he's head up paying attention, neither one of those hits happens, IMO. In other words, don't put yourself in a bad position.

Historically hes been a player very aware of what's around him on the ice. I think teams will catch him the moment hes not looking. Hes the number 1 target now and has to make offensive plays. Bad news for Krejci

 

[LouJersey]

I can't remember watching a team that gets run over like this Bruins team, and I watch a TON of hockey. Mainly west coast teams like Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Winnipeg, etc.

I’m in the east coast so unless it’s the east I’m not watching west during the week, only weekends. Now the Devils...softest team in the league by far. Bruins top guys get hit and hit hard a lot