Grading the off season moves

[VanJack]

I know it's still a bit of a longshot after only three days of camp.....but if Hoglander can slot seamlessly into the lineup as a top-six winger and basically replace Tofoli, then the Canucks are potentially better than they were a year ago.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I know it's still a bit of a longshot after only three days of camp.....but if Hoglander can slot seamlessly into the lineup as a top-six winger and basically replace Tofoli, then the Canucks are potentially better than they were a year ago.

Canucks were one of the highest scoring teams in the Western Conference last season..without Toffoli...

 

[4Twenty]

How do the grades match the performance?

 

[Hyzer]

How do the grades match the performance?

Pretty hot takes in this thread. Was a pretty entertaining read before my shift at work today

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Pretty hot takes in this thread. Was a pretty entertaining read before my shift at work today

The best one being that Benning screwed up by not re signing Markstrom .

 

[Hoglander]

The best one being that Benning screwed up by not re signing Markstrom .

Not really. Could have had markstrom mentoring dipietro, and traded demko for a nice haul. Then imagine we don't sign holtby, and keep toffoli. We'd be a playoff team and have 2 1st round picks to draft with. Pod and bone to add next season. What Benning ended up doing, was literally the worst he could've done

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Not really. Could have had markstrom mentoring dipietro, and traded demko for a nice haul. Then imagine we don't sign holtby, and keep toffoli. We'd be a playoff team and have 2 1st round picks to draft with. Pod and bone to add next season. What Benning ended up doing, was literally the worst he could've done

After what we saw in the playoffs last season, this team was nowhere near SC contender level..Why would you trade your 25 year old goalie (who is as good) instead of your 31 year old (oft injured) goalie..?..Demko is a core player, and fits the core age group...We have no idea what Mikey D is going to be..

I can just imagine when EP and Hughes start to hit their prime, and Thatcher is lighting it up for another team...and Marky' s veering on retirement...The meltdown here would be epic.

 

[VanJack]

Grading the off-season moves..,,hmm.....well with the benefit of hindsight, pretty dismal.

The Canucks let Markstrom, Stecher, Leivo, Tanev and Tofoli all walk as UFA's. A lot of character lost and not replaced.

Incoming were Nate Schmidt at close to $6m a season; and Braden Holtby at just over $5m. You'd have to think that $11m would have brought back most, if not all of their UFA's. Really, the only guy they couldn't have afforded would probably have been Markstrom.

The guy who really hurts is Tofoli, who from all reports never received a single contract offer from Jimbo....and as we all know, proceeded to light them up like a pinball machine as a just reward.

Schmidt hasn't been bad....and with Tanev gone they needed him. But Holtby was totally superfluous....and now they're stuck with his contract for another season as one of the league's most expensive backup goalies.

But the ultimate arbiter of the off-season moves is the standings.....dead last in the North Division, and one of the worst teams in the entire league.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Grading the off-season moves..,,hmm.....well with the benefit of hindsight, pretty dismal.

The Canucks let Markstrom, Stecher, Leivo, Tanev and Tofoli all walk as UFA's. A lot of character lost and not replaced.

Incoming were Nate Schmidt at close to $6m a season; and Braden Holtby at just over $5m. You'd have to think that $11m would have brought back most, if not all of their UFA's. Really, the only guy they couldn't have afforded would probably have been Markstrom.

The guy who really hurts is Tofoli, who from all reports never received a single contract offer from Jimbo....and as we all know, proceeded to light them up like a pinball machine as a just reward.

Schmidt hasn't been bad....and with Tanev gone they needed him. But Holtby was totally superfluous....and now they're stuck with his contract for another season as one of the league's most expensive backup goalies.

But the ultimate arbiter of the off-season moves is the standings.....dead last in the North Division, and one of the worst teams in the entire league.

Context helps here..they were 16-18-3 before the COVID break...everybody knew that they were going to be up against it after that.

The season was a disappointment even before the break, but the outbreak (and its effects on the team) is definitely going to be reflected in the win/loss column at the end of the season..

 

[xtra]

Context helps here..they were 16-18-3 before the COVID break...everybody knew that they were going to be up against it after that.

The season was a disappointment even before the break, but the outbreak (and its effects on the team) is definitely going to be reflected in the win/loss column at the end of the season..

The best context is the wasted cap space on our team to players like beagle rousell virtanen and Loui eriksson

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The best context is the wasted cap space on our team to players like beagle rousell virtanen and Loui eriksson

View attachment 433807

Nobodys arguing against that...but the entire team..top6..goalies..were not happening for the first 3 weeks.

 

[supercanuck]

Grading the off-season moves..,,hmm.....well with the benefit of hindsight, pretty dismal.

The Canucks let Markstrom, Stecher, Leivo, Tanev and Tofoli all walk as UFA's. A lot of character lost and not replaced.

Incoming were Nate Schmidt at close to $6m a season; and Braden Holtby at just over $5m. You'd have to think that $11m would have brought back most, if not all of their UFA's. Really, the only guy they couldn't have afforded would probably have been Markstrom.

The guy who really hurts is Tofoli, who from all reports never received a single contract offer from Jimbo....and as we all know, proceeded to light them up like a pinball machine as a just reward.

Schmidt hasn't been bad....and with Tanev gone they needed him. But Holtby was totally superfluous....and now they're stuck with his contract for another season as one of the league's most expensive backup goalies.

But the ultimate arbiter of the off-season moves is the standings.....dead last in the North Division, and one of the worst teams in the entire league.

Hard to say for sure without being in the room, but I feel the big miss was Tanev. I feel he was the lynchpin for the young superstars on the team. Add to that poor negotiating tactics (i.e. no negotiations or just plain ignoring) and that set the negative tone for this season. Finally, Tanev was the perfect guy to mentor and support your superstar defenseman, who was lost defensively this year without him.

 

[supercanuck]

The best context is the wasted cap space on our team to players like beagle rousell virtanen and Loui eriksson

View attachment 433807

Loui didn't make the list but he would be $6M/pt this season.

 

[xtra]

Nobodys arguing against that...but the entire team..top6..goalies..were not happening for the first 3 weeks.

Good thing our bottom 6 leadership that we overpaid for fixed that.....oh wait

 

[m9]

Won't get into specifics, here's my general thoughts:

Defense - As long as Schmidt lives up to his billing, they've upgraded the blueline. I was a bit suspicious of the deal because it's weird that Vegas would send him in-division, but now that they aren't in the same division for this year I guess it makes a bit more sense. If he's as good as advertised, that's a nice upgrade on Tanev. I would still prefer Stecher to Hamonic and they are counting on some young guys to step up and it's unlikely they can stay as healthy as they did last year, but they deserve a good grade for this off-season. My grade will be a tad lower simply because I want to see Schmidt play here as that's a massive contract commitment & there was no need to move out Stecher. Grade: B

Forward - There's actually not much to work off here. I would have allocated money a bit differently to bring back Toffoli on a short deal. Lots of question marks around Leivo coming off that injury. I like Hawryluk as a depth signing & no issues with how they rounded out depth on the team. Just kind of an average, ho-hum off-season but gets dinged with the loss of Toffoli. Grade: C

Goal - This is the toughest spot to grade here. I wouldn't have paid Markstrom what he got from Calgary, but I also have little doubt that he would have signed here for a bit less and maybe 1 year shorter to stay. Then you can move Demko in a trade to take out a bad contract and maybe get a pick back as well. Then, sign someone for cheap to backup Markstrom. I kind of like that alternate universe betting than what they actually did, but there are just so many variables (Markstrom contract cost, Demko trade value, etc) that it's hard to judge good or bad. It just really seemed that they were laser-focused in keeping Demko instead of looking at all options so I do have some concerns there.

I don't like the Holtby signing. I don't like that it's two years and I don't like the cost. There are too many scenarios that leave goaltending in a mess after this season. Their only real out is if both guys play well. If Holtby plays well and Demko doesn't, do you protect Holtby? If Demko plays well and Holtby doesn't, why would Seattle want Holtby? And then the Canucks are stuck with that contract when they need cap flexibility the most. Then finally if both guys play poorly, how do you possibly come back with the same duo again? It just seemed like the team had 5 million or whatever allocated for a FA goaltender and then when Markstrom didn't take it they moved onto the next guy, and I hate that kind of thinking. Grade: D

I feel fine about my pre-season thoughts in general. I had some hesitations about Schmidt (also posted in the trade thread at the time) and I think that while he's been okay this year he hasn't been the upgrade on Tanev that many expected. The Holtby signing was predictably awful and puts them in a bad spot for next season. I've repeated a few times that I've never had a firm answer for Markstrom/Demko without knowing the trade & contract offers available to the team and nothing has really changed.

 

[VanJack]

Loui didn't make the list but he would be $6M/pt this season.

Lol! ..yep, the only thing that saved the Canucks from having four players on the PPG 'wall of shame' was the fact that Eriksson couldn't get off the taxi squad for more than a couple of games.

And the financial 'elephant in the room is the fact that Roussel, Beagle, Virtanen and Eriksson between them chewed up close to $15m in cap space. Take that Francesco! Suck on it.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Good thing our bottom 6 leadership that we overpaid for fixed that.....oh wait

When your top 6 dont show up (EP was 5th in scoring)...both goalies couldn't stop a beach ball..and the D was out to lunch ..If you're best players are not your best players..you're not going to win..
The overpaid bottom 6 played the way they always do..

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I actually forecasted the D to be a bit better than last seasons.looked that way on paper...Schmidt and Hughes were two of the best zone exit D men in the NHL..Tanev was a bigger loss than I thought he would be...Its just come to light that Hamonic was recovering from broken ribs at the start of the year...

I also predicted that the team would like take a step back, obviously not to the point they did in the first 3 weeks of the season.

 

[Hoglander]

After what we saw in the playoffs last season, this team was nowhere near SC contender level..Why would you trade your 25 year old goalie (who is as good) instead of your 31 year old (oft injured) goalie..?..Demko is a core player, and fits the core age group...We have no idea what Mikey D is going to be..

I can just imagine when EP and Hughes start to hit their prime, and Thatcher is lighting it up for another team...and Marky' s veering on retirement...The meltdown here would be epic.

If we were nowhere near contender level, then why the hell are we trading for a 30 year old dman signed longterm to big money?
There is no plan whatsoever, and you blindly continue to support every mistake made by Benning. It's mind-blowing.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

If we were nowhere near contender level, then why the hell are we trading for a 30 year old dman signed longterm to big money?
There is no plan whatsoever, and you blindly continue to support every mistake made by Benning. It's mind-blowing.

They didnt want to give a retirement contract to Tanev (injury history)...I recall everyone being pretty pleased that Benning acquired a top 4 d man for a 3rd round pick...I'll support that transaction.

Keeping Marky and trading Demko is blind thinking..imo

 

[4Twenty]

I’d call it a shocking reboot.

 

[StreetHawk]

I actually forecasted the D to be a bit better than last seasons.looked that way on paper...Schmidt and Hughes were two of the best zone exit D men in the NHL..Tanev was a bigger loss than I thought he would be...Its just come to light that Hamonic was recovering from broken ribs at the start of the year...

I also predicted that the team would like take a step back, obviously not to the point they did in the first 3 weeks of the season.

Canucks were dependent on all young guys taking another step up. Petey got hurt, Jake and Gaudette did virtually nothing. Hughes took a step back defensively without Tanev. We all knew that they wouldn't get much of anything from Roussel, Beagle, Sutter, Eriksson, etc.

Throw in 16 games in the first 26 days, along with Covid, thus finishing with 19 games in 32 days, so they played 35 games in a span of 58 days when the typically days per game is 2.2, they played those in 1.66 days.

Really nothing changes for next season. Just shifting money from Edler/Benn/Sutter/Sven/Spooner over to Hughes and Petey. Thus, no cap space to add anything. And with no additional picks from TDL moves, they aren't in a position to have extra assets to move out dead cap space.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Canucks were dependent on all young guys taking another step up. Petey got hurt, Jake and Gaudette did virtually nothing. Hughes took a step back defensively without Tanev. We all knew that they wouldn't get much of anything from Roussel, Beagle, Sutter, Eriksson, etc.

Throw in 16 games in the first 26 days, along with Covid, thus finishing with 19 games in 32 days, so they played 35 games in a span of 58 days when the typically days per game is 2.2, they played those in 1.66 days.

Really nothing changes for next season. Just shifting money from Edler/Benn/Sutter/Sven/Spooner over to Hughes and Petey. Thus, no cap space to add anything. And with no additional picks from TDL moves, they aren't in a position to have extra assets to move out dead cap space.

What does change is that they will have a proper training camp, and not have an insane schedule like they did to start the season. (where they could not practice).Plus they will be in a division with two rebuilding teams , and an expansion team.
I fully expect EP and QH to rebound next season.

 

[MS]

What does change is that they will have a proper training camp, and not have an insane schedule like they did to start the season. (where they could not practice).Plus they will be in a division with two rebuilding teams , and an expansion team.
I fully expect EP and QH to rebound next season.

No teams had a proper training camp.

We were in one of the worst divisions in hockey this year.

Every team had compressed bits of their schedule.

These excuses are pathetic.

We have 6 regulation wins in 25 games against Ottawa/Calgary/Montreal who are all poor teams.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

No teams had a proper training camp.

We were in one of the worst divisions in hockey this year.

Every team had compressed bits of their schedule.

These excuses are pathetic.

We have 6 regulation wins in 25 games against Ottawa/Calgary/Montreal who are all poor teams.

I wasnt using them as 'excuses', how many times do you want to hear me say that it was a disappointing season even before the Covid break (they literally did themselves in, in the first 3 weeks) ..I'm just stating whats going to be different next season.