Flyers' History: Grade The 2024 Trade Deadline

[LegionOfGloom]

They got a first round pick for a player that was a throw in last year and lost nothing else of value. How you can rate it any lower than a B is incredible.

You really struggle with basic logic. How Walker was acquired is irrelevant just as the same would be true in the opposite situation (sunken cost fallacy).

 

[PALE PWNR]

You really struggle with basic logic. How Walker was acquired is irrelevant just as the same would be true in the opposite situation (sunken cost fallacy).

So if they gave up 4 first round picks for Walker last deadline, and then got a 1st round pick for him this deadline that wouldn't matter to you? Because how he was acquired is irrelevant?

Acquiring risto for a 1st 2 2nds and Gostisbehere doesn't matter to you?

But the 4th round pick they gave up for EJ does

 

[freakydallas13]

I’d have appreciated +/- options here, since I really have them at a C-, but C is close enough. They got what we wanted for Walker, so that’s a nice positive, Allison for Gurianov is a non-factor, I could not care less about RyJo, so the real downsides are the utterly inexplicable overpay for Johnson, the non-attempt to find a backup goalie, and the lack of movement on anyone who isn’t obviously a non-factor going forward. All in all, I was hoping for more, and largely got what I was expecting. Maybe Lucy won’t pull the football away when we go to kick it this off-season.

I agree with pretty much all of this. C minus is where I would have graded it. A solid "meh" overall, but definitely better than anything Charles ever cooked up.

 

[LegionOfGloom]

So if they gave up 4 first round picks for Walker last deadline, and then got a 1st round pick for him this deadline that wouldn't matter to you? Because how he was acquired is irrelevant?

If I'm grading the trade deadline. Yes.

If I'm a grading a series of moves. No.

Will you call any return for Risto a complete failure if it is not at least a 1st and a 2nd?

 

[PALE PWNR]

If I'm grading the trade deadline. Yes.

If I'm a grading a series of moves. No.

Will you call any return for Risto a complete failure if it is not at least a 1st and a 2nd?

Of course not risto has never been worth that. And before novemberish of this year Sean Walker was barely worth a bag of pucks. It's a credit to the Flyers that they got his value to the level it was and pulled the trigger to sell while it was at its highest

Context clearly matters

 

[LegionOfGloom]

Of course not risto has never been worth that. And before novemberish of this year Sean Walker was barely worth a bag of pucks. It's a credit to the Flyers that they got his value to the level it was and pulled the trigger to sell while it was at its highest

Ok. So we need to figure in Walker's acquisition cost but not Risto's. Makes perfect consistent sense.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Ok. So we need to figure in Walker's acquisition cost but not Risto's. Makes perfect consistent sense.

Read it again slowly

 

[Striiker]

F because they failed to do what they had to do.

Pretty obvious.

 

[LegionOfGloom]

Read it again slowly

I understand what you're saying chief trust me. You're twisting yourself in mental gymnastics so you can defend every move this organization makes.

 

[pooch]

This.

Look at the trades around the league. How many teams got first round picks?

The Sharks got one for Hertl. Calgary got a first for Hanifin. That's it.

Guentzel didn't get a first (unless they get to the finals). Toffoli didn't get a first. Tanev didn't get a first.

People's expectations are way out of line with reality.

Getting a first for an expiring Walker and taking on half of Johansen is written off as nothing, while trading away a 4th for Erik Johnson makes them idiots.

I don't get it. This is a solid B rating, IMO.

Who is writing off the Walker trade as nothing? I've seen nothing but overwhelmingly positive responses to that move. It's everything else that sucked (except the Hanifin retention), in my opinion.

I believe several contenders traded their 24 1st rd pick well before the deadline which is why you didnt see many go recently. How many 2025 1sts were moved (honest question...dont know off the top of my head)?

For a team that claims to be rebuilding and is not a cup contender, this is very weak TDL but at least its better than last year. We added 1 pick of value and zero prospects.

 

[Flybynite]

I would go C+. So not sure to go C or B.

I think not getting anything for you best pending FA asset is an automatic F. What they got is more or less what was expected for awhile. Meeting expectations should be a C, but a Flyers GM meeting expectations should get a bit of a curve at this point because it hadn't been common place.

Using meaningless cap to get a scratch-off pick is a plus. Not getting anything for Seeler, giving him a 4 year deal and then trading a 4th for a washed up "locker room guy" is a minus for me.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

People's expectations are way out of line with reality.

Maybe other people should raise their expectations and stop explaining away mediocrity. We've been doing the same song and dance for at least 15 years

 

[renberg]

C. Seeler was a bit more scary than I'd like and one year of term too many but that's the price that had to be paid to keep him. Ability to play right side matters. Keeping him probably means that there won't be a signing of a Staal, Yandl type this summer.
Walker netted a first rounder. Good deal. The only needle mover for the organization.
Unimpressive work otherwise. Briere giving Torts the players that he wanted to fill out the season. RyJo was the cost of getting the #1. He won't play here. Easy to buy out or bury.
Allison trade was a swap of organization failures. He just can't stay healthy. If he does he's a 3rd liner at best. With the depth that the Flyers have a wing, he's not going to play here.
EJ is insurance for the rest of the season if the banged up Flyer defensemen can't recuperate. No big deal. Gone at the end of the season.

 

[Tripod]

"Guentzel didn't get a first (unless they get to the finals). Toffoli didn't get a first. Tanev didn't get a first."

How many of those teams took back a 4 million cap dump I return?

Walker didn't return a 1st. Walker, 4 million in cap dump that isn't expiring, and a 5th got a 1st. And tgat cap dump has such a toxic relationship with Torts, we can't even try and rehab his value.

 

[Striiker]

Also, they technically got a 1st for Walker, but they didn’t gain the value of a 1st, like they would have if it was strictly Walker for a 1st, because they lost value in the pick they added and the negative value player they took back.

They also didn’t trade Seeler or Laughton, so that value was lost.

Then they made a horrible trade by giving up a pick for a horrible rental.

F.

Obviously F.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Who is writing off the Walker trade as nothing? I've seen nothing but overwhelmingly positive responses to that move. It's everything else that sucked (except the Hanifin retention), in my opinion.

I believe several contenders traded their 24 1st rd pick well before the deadline which is why you didnt see many go recently. How many 2025 1sts were moved (honest question...dont know off the top of my head)?

For a team that claims to be rebuilding and is not a cup contender, this is very weak TDL but at least its better than last year. We added 1 pick of value and zero prospects.

Well, when 42% of those polled on this board rate it the deadline a C, and another 38% rate it a D or F, then I think it's safe to conclude these people aren't placing much emphasis on the Walker trade as a positive.

 

[Redpath]

"Guentzel didn't get a first (unless they get to the finals). Toffoli didn't get a first. Tanev didn't get a first."

How many of those teams took back a 4 million cap dump I return?

Walker didn't return a 1st. Walker, 4 million in cap dump that isn't expiring, and a 5th got a 1st. And tgat cap dump has such a toxic relationship with Torts, we can't even try and rehab his value.

It is perplexing that the Flyers willingness to take on a cap dump to secure a 1st is somehow being held against them. Maybe NJ or Calgary should have taken back a one year cap dump to get a first, too.

Leveraging cap space for maximum draft assets is a good thing. The alternative would have been hoarding the unused cap space to not secure a 1st.

 

[pooch]

Well, when 42% of those polled on this board rate it the deadline a C, and another 38% rate it a D or F, then I think it's safe to conclude these people aren't placing much emphasis on the Walker trade as a positive.

I think most people look at it as a whole. I was considering both what they did and what they didn't do as part of my grade. There is a separate poll for just the Walker trade and only 5.3% of people gave that trade a D or F. The Walker trade was the only thing keeping it from an F for me. If you read the comments, I think just about everyone liked the Walker trade.

 

[LegionOfGloom]

It is perplexing that the Flyers willingness to take on a cap dump to secure a 1st is somehow being held against them. Maybe NJ or Calgary should have taken back a one year cap dump to get a first, too.

Leveraging cap space for maximum draft assets is a good thing. The alternative would have been hoarding the unused cap space to not secure a 1st.

I don't think anyone is complaining about taking back Johansen. Everyone agrees that its smart to do to improve the return. But that's different than pretending it didn't happen and saying things like Briere got a 1st for Walker or 2 1sts for Provorov.

 

[renberg]

A negative for me is that Tortorella has some new toys to play with. That means players like Lyscksell, Attard, Ginning and Andrae aren't going to get a shot a legitimate PT. That's not building for the future.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It is perplexing that the Flyers willingness to take on a cap dump to secure a 1st is somehow being held against them. Maybe NJ or Calgary should have taken back a one year cap dump to get a first, too.

Leveraging cap space for maximum draft assets is a good thing. The alternative would have been hoarding the unused cap space to not secure a 1st.

Right.

Briere leveraged his situation to get a better return than other teams got for better players, and somehow it's viewed negatively?

 

[Tripod]

Another way to look at it:

As a rebuilding team we only sold 1 roster asset and 1 retention asset, while giving up 2 picks AND resigned a 31 year old 3rd pairing Dman for 4 years AND have a xap dump to cut into cap next year, so not much rebuilding.

As a playoff team, we traded a middle pairing dman, added a shit #6/7, didn’t address needed a backup goalie, didn't address league worst PP.

But hey, didn't trade a 1st+ for shit dman rental and sign him long term, so progress.

 

[LegionOfGloom]

A negative for me is that Tortorella has some new toys to play with. That means players like Lyscksell, Attard, Ginning and Andrae aren't going to get a shot a legitimate PT. That's not building for the future.

This is something not discussed enough. We hear all these rationalizations like playoff experience is good for the kids. What kids? It's a rebuilding team with like 3 ELCs on the roster.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think most people look at it as a whole. I was considering both what they did and what they didn't do as part of my grade. There is a separate poll for just the Walker trade and only 5.3% of people gave that trade a D or F. The Walker trade was the only thing keeping it from an F for me. If you read the comments, I think just about everyone liked the Walker trade.

Well 80% of the board rate the deadline as a C, D, or F. So it seems to me they aren't valuing the Walker trade very highly when it comes down to it.

 

[PALE PWNR]

I understand what you're saying chief trust me. You're twisting yourself in mental gymnastics so you can defend every move this organization makes.

My logic is sound. You are the one that introduced the concept that context has no bearing on trade value, then introduced the risto trade as if that supports your argument at all