Salary Cap: Grade Last off-season moves

How would you grade the Ottawa Senators 2020-21 off-season?


  • Total voters
    104

Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,857
9,793
Montreal, Canada
Ya he is 24 and everyone is better than him. He has already been passed by the younger guys they have no spot for his career high 17 points.

Talk about disingenuousity

And again for the 1000th time... it's not about Balcers ON THE SENATORS, it's about Balcers as a hockey player/asset

He was the 3rd best asset obtained in the return for EK (after Norris/1st). It's not like we got him for free.

The 2 teams from the last Stanley Cup finals treat their assets very differently.
 

supsens

Registered User
Oct 6, 2013
6,577
2,000
Talk about disingenuousity

And again for the 1000th time... it's not about Balcers ON THE SENATORS, it's about Balcers as a hockey player/asset

He was the 3rd best asset obtained in the return for EK (after Norris/1st). It's not like we got him for free.

The 2 teams from the last Stanley Cup finals treat their assets very differently.

If you are another team would you trade for a player that can't be sent down if he does not look good enough for the NHL?
He had zero value, taking on the second with the other 2 guys paid better.
Would you trade anyone drafted by the sens in the second round over the last 2 years for Balcers?
I don't think you understand actual value here.
 

Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
22,849
11,167
Talk about disingenuousity

And again for the 1000th time... it's not about Balcers ON THE SENATORS, it's about Balcers as a hockey player/asset

He was the 3rd best asset obtained in the return for EK (after Norris/1st). It's not like we got him for free.

The 2 teams from the last Stanley Cup finals treat their assets very differently.

Demelo, Tierney were also better than Balcers at the time of the trade.
The last Stanley cup winner just lost their whole third line.
 
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Xspyrit

DJ Dorion
Jun 29, 2008
30,857
9,793
Montreal, Canada
I don't think you understand actual value here.

And I don't think you understand much of anything here. From my personal experience, "asset management" can be a very good thing. It could be real estate, stocks, crypto, sports cards, paintings, athletes for a NHL team, etc... they are all "assets" who have a fluctuating value

If you are another team would you trade for a player that can't be sent down if he does not look good enough for the NHL?
He had zero value, taking on the second with the other 2 guys paid better.

That's exactly the point. Why waive Balcers when he had no value? Play him, build him up and once he is an asset again, sell him. You're rebuilding, the plan should be to fructify your assets.

If you believe he wouldn't be able to build his value up, so why did you acquire him in the first place? It would be admitting that your pro scouting sucks

BUY LOW, SELL HIGH. This is pretty simple but not EASY to do for everybody. A NHL GM should be good at that.

Are we going to waive Erik Brannstrom too because he doesn't fit our long term plans and we won't have a spot for him on LD with Chabot/Sanderson?

The difference is Brannstrom currently has more value than Balcers had but it would still be pretty stupid to not play him, let his value plummet then trade him away for an underwhelming return (like it might happen with Logan Brown)

Dorion absolutely had no obligation to play Cedric Paquette or NOT waive him. Paquette had no trade value. The only reason he was traded is because the Hurricanes were glad to get rid of Dzingel's salary who simply didn't work out for them. And that's without talking that Paquette really didn't want to play for the Senators.

Demelo, Tierney were also better than Balcers at the time of the trade.
The last Stanley cup winner just lost their whole third line.

1) That's weird, DeMelo was thought as a pure throw in. The Sharks didn't even qualify him, nobody claimed him on waivers too. It's in Ottawa that he became a NHL player

2) I'd argue that for people who scouted Chris Tierney before, he had already shown what he was going to be at the NHL level (284 NHL games with SJ), a decent/good 3rd line center if given the opportunity, or a below average one as soon as you start having some depth in your forward group (like the Sens right now). We didn't acquire anybody this off-season, we even traded Dadonov and I'm still confident that Tierney won't be a top-9 forward on the Sens this season. I was very vocal that we should have traded him in summer 2019 at his peak value (after career season). Never really understood why they absolutely wanted to keep him, could have signed a replacement player in UFA for "only money"

3) The Lightning didn't lose their third line because of mismanagement but more as a result of top notch management for a long period of time, they just had/have too many good/great players and that's expensive. Can't fit everyone. Did I really need to explain this or deep down you already knew?

A possible "triple peat" up against the cap vs a rebuilding team barely reaching the cap floor losing a decent young NHLer on waivers to make sure they wouldn't waive Artem Anisimov, Alex Galchenyuk OR Cedric Paquette.

Sens could have easily had Balcers among their 13/14 forwards, waive one of the three guys above and put that guy on the taxi squad once he clears. You rotate the NO VALUE players until you have been PROVEN that Rudolf Balcers isn't NHL caliber. Simple as that

I'm not sure how anyone is still debating that, it was stupid plain and simple. I just made a ridiculous profit % on an investment from 2 years ago (like with the EK trade). Does it mean I should be careless with other assets because things are going well?
 
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Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
22,849
11,167
And I don't think you understand much of anything here. From my personal experience, "asset management" can be a very good thing. It could be real estate, stocks, crypto, sports cards, paintings, athletes for a NHL team, etc... they are all "assets" who have a fluctuating value



That's exactly the point. Why waive Balcers when he had no value? Play him, build him up and once he is an asset again, sell him. You're rebuilding, the plan should be to fructify your assets.

If you believe he wouldn't be able to build his value up, so why did you acquire him in the first place? It would be admitting that your pro scouting sucks

BUY LOW, SELL HIGH. This is pretty simple but not EASY to do for everybody. A NHL GM should be good at that.

Are we going to waive Erik Brannstrom too because he doesn't fit our long term plans and we won't have a spot for him on LD with Chabot/Sanderson?

The difference is Brannstrom currently has more value than Balcers had but it would still be pretty stupid to not play him, let his value plummet then trade him away for an underwhelming return (like it might happen with Logan Brown)

Dorion absolutely had no obligation to play Cedric Paquette or NOT waive him. Paquette had no trade value. The only reason he was traded is because the Hurricanes were glad to get rid of Dzingel's salary who simply didn't work out for them. And that's without talking that Paquette really didn't want to play for the Senators.



1) That's weird, DeMelo was thought as a pure throw in. The Sharks didn't even qualify him, nobody claimed him on waivers too. It's in Ottawa that he became a NHL player

2) I'd argue that for people who scouted Chris Tierney before, he had already shown what he was going to be at the NHL level (284 NHL games with SJ), a decent/good 3rd line center if given the opportunity, or a below average one as soon as you start having some depth in your forward group (like the Sens right now). We didn't acquire anybody this off-season, we even traded Dadonov and I'm still confident that Tierney won't be a top-9 forward on the Sens this season. I was very vocal that we should have traded him in summer 2019 at his peak value (after career season). Never really understood why they absolutely wanted to keep him, could have signed a replacement player in UFA for "only money"

3) The Lightning didn't lose their third line because of mismanagement but more as a result of top notch management for a long period of time, they just had/have too many good/great players and that's expensive. Can't fit everyone. Did I really need to explain this or deep down you already knew?

A possible "triple peat" up against the cap vs a rebuilding team barely reaching the cap floor losing a decent young NHLer on waivers to make sure they wouldn't waive Artem Anisimov, Alex Galchenyuk OR Cedric Paquette.

Sens could have easily had Balcers among their 13/14 forwards, waive one of the three guys above and put that guy on the taxi squad once he clears. You rotate the NO VALUE players until you have been PROVEN that Rudolf Balcers isn't NHL caliber. Simple as that

I'm not sure how anyone is still debating that, it was stupid plain and simple. I just made a 950% profit on an investment from 2 years ago. Do you think I am throwing away other assets because things are going well? lol it's ridiculous and that's simply not how you manage a half-billion business.

Glad you agree that Tierney was a better player than Balcers when we got him, and Demelo turned into a better player. Your right best to keep the NHL caliber players over Non proven , especially when we weren’t ready to be a playoff team.
 

supsens

Registered User
Oct 6, 2013
6,577
2,000
And I don't think you understand much of anything here. From my personal experience, "asset management" can be a very good thing. It could be real estate, stocks, crypto, sports cards, paintings, athletes for a NHL team, etc... they are all "assets" who have a fluctuating value



That's exactly the point. Why waive Balcers when he had no value? Play him, build him up and once he is an asset again, sell him. You're rebuilding, the plan should be to fructify your assets.

If you believe he wouldn't be able to build his value up, so why did you acquire him in the first place? It would be admitting that your pro scouting sucks

BUY LOW, SELL HIGH. This is pretty simple but not EASY to do for everybody. A NHL GM should be good at that.

Are we going to waive Erik Brannstrom too because he doesn't fit our long term plans and we won't have a spot for him on LD with Chabot/Sanderson?

The difference is Brannstrom currently has more value than Balcers had but it would still be pretty stupid to not play him, let his value plummet then trade him away for an underwhelming return (like it might happen with Logan Brown)

Dorion absolutely had no obligation to play Cedric Paquette or NOT waive him. Paquette had no trade value. The only reason he was traded is because the Hurricanes were glad to get rid of Dzingel's salary who simply didn't work out for them. And that's without talking that Paquette really didn't want to play for the Senators.



1) That's weird, DeMelo was thought as a pure throw in. The Sharks didn't even qualify him, nobody claimed him on waivers too. It's in Ottawa that he became a NHL player

2) I'd argue that for people who scouted Chris Tierney before, he had already shown what he was going to be at the NHL level (284 NHL games with SJ), a decent/good 3rd line center if given the opportunity, or a below average one as soon as you start having some depth in your forward group (like the Sens right now). We didn't acquire anybody this off-season, we even traded Dadonov and I'm still confident that Tierney won't be a top-9 forward on the Sens this season. I was very vocal that we should have traded him in summer 2019 at his peak value (after career season). Never really understood why they absolutely wanted to keep him, could have signed a replacement player in UFA for "only money"

3) The Lightning didn't lose their third line because of mismanagement but more as a result of top notch management for a long period of time, they just had/have too many good/great players and that's expensive. Can't fit everyone. Did I really need to explain this or deep down you already knew?

A possible "triple peat" up against the cap vs a rebuilding team barely reaching the cap floor losing a decent young NHLer on waivers to make sure they wouldn't waive Artem Anisimov, Alex Galchenyuk OR Cedric Paquette.

Sens could have easily had Balcers among their 13/14 forwards, waive one of the three guys above and put that guy on the taxi squad once he clears. You rotate the NO VALUE players until you have been PROVEN that Rudolf Balcers isn't NHL caliber. Simple as that

I'm not sure how anyone is still debating that, it was stupid plain and simple. I just made a ridiculous profit % on an investment from 2 years ago (like with the EK trade). Does it mean I should be careless with other assets because things are going well?

Play him? Hell no
first it’s “these guys need better support how stupid is Dorion”.
Then two minutes later it’s “play the worst guy we have with the rookies because who cares about development”
Lol. After a full year he still ain’t worth shit...and they would have had to sign him before trading him. And nobody would want him for more than a 4th if even and then you are already minus the second round pick you never got.....
Your asset isn’t one no matter how hard you spin that yarn. You are just plain mistaken

The only value he had was being free. The Sharks gave away all their draft picks and prospects they have nothing to trade with and they have no cap for real players.
 
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aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,608
9,124
Simply put to answer your questions on this page (not just this post)

If I have this in my pockets :

30.625 AAV (23.525 in salary)
Anthony Duclair
Rudolfs Balcers
Jonathan Gruden
2021 2nd round pick (CBJ - #37)
2020 2nd round pick (CBJ - #52)
2020 4th round pick (OTT - #95)
2021 4th round pick (COL - #124)
2021 5th round pick (EDM - #148)

I'm expecting a much better ROI than :

Matt Murray 4 years x $6,250,000 AAV
Austin Watson 3 years x $1,500,000 AAV
Joshua Brown 2 years x $1,200,000 AAV
Derek Stepan 1 year x $6,500,000 AAV
Erik Gudbranson 1 year x $4,000,000 AAV
Braydon Coburn 1 year x $1,700,000 AAV
Cédric Paquette 1 year x $1,650,000 AAV
Evgeni Dadonov 3 years x $5,000,000 AAV
Alex Galchenyuk 1 year x $1,050,000 AAV
2022 2nd round pick (TBL)
Artem Zub 1 year x $1,775,000 AAV

I guess it depends on how you look at it. IMO the acquisition of Zub alone was worth more than Balcers, Gruden & Duclair. Maybe Murray comes around & maybe he doesn't, but PD took a swing for the fences with him & it has yet to pay off, but the good news is he has another yr to prove himself. Watson IMO was a good acquisition as well & did more than Balcers ever did. Even J. Brown getting into a couple of fights means that Tkachuk didn't have to fight more & potentially get hurt.

The only difference IMO is they spent more money in a yr where they could afford to spend more money since they had a ton of cap space. Maybe they should have spent that money on just one very good player but who knows which good player would come to a rebuilding team. Most of these guys if they have the choice go to big cities or contenders, don't they?

The other ones we could have done without, but Gudbranson has some good fights protecting teammates, Coburn was okay, but at his age I didn't expect much either. Other than money I really don't get your point, I see zero difference between both groups on the ice & prefer what PD did over the other group. They did get a few draft picks back, Ottawa has a ton of picks in this upcoming draft which is suppose to be a good draft so spell it out for me what is the big difference that you see?
 

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