Salary Cap: Grade Last off-season moves

[Ice-Tray]

Deleted.

 

[aragorn]

Why are you taking things to the extreme? Where did I ever state spending to the cap, bringing in the top FAs???
Simply put the PRO Scouting staff should have identified better targets than Gudbranson, Coburn, Paquette, Galchenyuk, Dadonov (wasn't a fit). Way too many misses.

I said people not you, I'm asking what people expected & if they weren't going to bring in game changers which would have cost much more money, I don't see how it would make much of a difference. If they brought in a different defensive defenceman than Gudbranson how much difference would it have made? I agreed they had a lot of misses, but I doubt any other mediocre players would have made much difference to this team. Keeping Balcers for example instead of Galchenyuk would not have catapulted them into the playoffs. It's semantics IMO, six of these rather than half a dozen of the other.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

I said people not you, I'm asking what people expected & if they weren't going to bring in game changers which would have cost much more money, I don't see how it would make much of a difference. If they brought in a different defensive defenceman than Gudbranson how much difference would it have made? I agreed they had a lot of misses, but I doubt any other mediocre players would have made much difference to this team. Keeping Balcers for example instead of Galchenyuk would not have catapulted them into the playoffs. It's semantics IMO, six of these rather than half a dozen of the other.

If we had kept a guy like Balcers instead of Paquette/Galchenyuk for example (since that's the example you used) we probably wouldn't have made the Playoffs; however, we would have been a better team. Simply put we would have high odds of staying competitive instead of getting thrashed. That early stretch where we were winless was a nightmare. I don't think we would've experienced something like that had we done a better job identifying players who would fit- and not only for the short term.

It's like the guys Dorion brought were cannon fodder so that the young guys wouldn't be "sacrificed"? In any case, the team made questionable moves in "asset management" when it came to acquiring these players. Giving up draft picks for cannon fodder is why people are dissapointed.

 

[Ice-Tray]

If we had kept a guy like Balcers instead of Paquette/Galchenyuk for example (since that's the example you used) we probably wouldn't have made the Playoffs; however, we would have been a better team. Simply put we would have high odds of staying competitive instead of getting thrashed. That early stretch where we were winless was a nightmare. I don't think we would've experienced something like that had we done a better job identifying players who would fit- and not only for the short term.

It's like the guys Dorion brought were cannon fodder so that the young guys wouldn't be "sacrificed"? In any case, the team made questionable moves in "asset management" when it came to acquiring these players. Giving up draft picks for cannon fodder is why people are dissapointed.

I would let Balcers walk all day to trade for Cobourn and Paquette to gain a second rounder, wouldn’t you?

Gally was an attempt to see if they could turn a previous high first pick into trade bait for the cost of nothing. Just because it didn’t pan out doesn’t make it a bad move.

‘Asset management’ is a running joke though. No team behaves like fans do in here. In real life ‘assets’ aren’t what fans think they are.

 

[aragorn]

If we had kept a guy like Balcers instead of Paquette/Galchenyuk for example (since that's the example you used) we probably wouldn't have made the Playoffs; however, we would have been a better team. Simply put we would have high odds of staying competitive instead of getting thrashed. That early stretch where we were winless was a nightmare. I don't think we would've experienced something like that had we done a better job identifying players who would fit- and not only for the short term.

It seems like the guys the guys Dorion brought were cannon fodder so that the young guys wouldn't be "sacrificed"? In any case, the team made questionable moves in "asset management" when it came to acquiring these players. Giving up draft picks for cannon fodder is why people are dissapointed.

That is probably where we disagree, it would not have mattered who they would have kept or signed if the goalies were allowing beach balls to get past them & both were in the early season. Then there is the whole question of the defence being so piss poor which again was a problem that IMO still isn't completely solved. While Balcers may have helped them score a few more goals & I'm no fan of Galchenyuk, I don't see how he would have stopped the goals against which was their real downfall last yr especially at the beginning of the yr. I think most of the guys they brought in were with the hope of moving them at the TDL for more assets, mostly draft picks.

There is no question that the guys they brought in sucked for the most part but given the situation & who wanted to come here & who they could afford, I'm just not sure they could have done much better unless they spent a lot more money. And I think most agree last yr was not the yr to spend more money, but to develop their young players & they did that with Tkachuk, Norris, Batherson, Stutzle, Formenton & Gustavsson showing real good signs of being good NHL players. I kind of expect the same this yr with a few more young players hopefully taking another step forward & improving the team.

 

[Dan Patrick]

Feels like people too quickly disregard how an extended offseason, reduced offseason training, and reduced training camp could play major roles in a high player turnover team struggling during last season. It's honestly pretty incredible any of the one year veteran rentals succeeded at all.

The main problem with these arguements is the largest benefit of bringing in veterans and the largest thing that reduced their visible value are the most difficult things to quantify. Leadership and mentoring aren't something we really see as fans so it's easy for us to criticize players who may have played bigger roles on the team then we can know.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

I would let Balcers walk all day to trade for Cobourn and Paquette to gain a second rounder, wouldn’t you?

Gally was an attempt to see if they could turn a previous high first pick into trade bait for the cost of nothing. Just because it didn’t pan out doesn’t make it a bad move.

‘Asset management’ is a running joke though. No team behaves like fans do in here. In real life ‘assets’ aren’t what fans think they are.

Those two are not dependent on each other, nice try.
Also, would you have given up a 2nd for Stepan?
Picks for guys like Josh Brown and Gudbranson, when there was guys like Vatanen available for free?

2nd bolded; if things doesn't pan out, it's by definition a bad move. A bad move with low implications, but still very much a bad move.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Feels like people too quickly disregard how an extended offseason, reduced offseason training, and reduced training camp could play major roles in a high player turnover team struggling during last season. It's honestly pretty incredible any of the one year veteran rentals succeeded at all.

The main problem with these arguements is the largest benefit of bringing in veterans and the largest thing that reduced their visible value are the most difficult things to quantify. Leadership and mentoring aren't something we really see as fans so it's easy for us to criticize players who may have played bigger roles on the team then we can know.

All teams were effected by what you're saying.
Also to answer your bolded; you're implying that the guys they brought in had mentoring gigs, but ironically state that those are hard to quantify. Unless you were in that dressing room.

 

[Dan Patrick]

All teams were effected by what you're saying.
Also to answer your bolded; you're implying that the guys they brought in had mentoring gigs, but ironically state that those are hard to quantify. Unless you were in that dressing room.

All teams were not affected equally. The Sens were one of the teams that didn't make the cutoff for the play-in so we had one of the longest off-seasons in the NHL. We also had one of the highest if not the highest roster turnovers in the league.

Also, come on. It's not exactly a revelation that GM's bring in veteran rentals to help mentor what otherwise would be an incredibly young and inexperienced team.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I mean it’s very clearly F right?

 

[Ice-Tray]

Those two are not dependent on each other, nice try.
Also, would you have given up a 2nd for Stepan?
Picks for guys like Josh Brown and Gudbranson, when there was guys like Vatanen available for free?

2nd bolded; if things doesn't pan out, it's by definition a bad move. A bad move with low implications, but still very much a bad move.

I mean I know they aren’t, but you made dropping Balcers as dependent on Paquette/Gally in your post.

Yes, I was fine with what they wanted from Stepan, Gud and Brown, spending some picks is fine in my opinion, we already had/have a ton of them, so I’m ok issuing some currency to achieve some secondary goals. I would hesitate to assume that guys were available ‘for free’ and then assuming they would come to our team over choosing other options. We weren’t exactly offering enticing roles.

And no, things not working out doesn’t mean they were a bad move. In the end I tend to agree Aragorn. The issue is that some fans had their own expectations on the players brought in, despite being told otherwise by the team and players at the time, and after, and since their expectations weren’t met they look at the moves as failures.

I have often noted that no one changes their stance in here, and ‘discussions’ are mostly just people repeating their positions over and over again. We disagree, it’s all good.

 

[Xspyrit]

It isn't your money so why would it matter? They also recived draft picks and players in return for who they moved out from that list
2nd+2x3 +2x7 + Dzingle+Holden+Zub*Wattson

A fail would have brining players that stole and kept Jimmy Josh and Forementons spots.
They brought in team first guys that listen to the coach that were easy to get rid of.

Of course it's not my money but I am a fan of this team and have invested a lot of time and also a good chunk of money following them for more than 2 decades. I don't think I should be entitled to make the decisions but I still want them to do as best as possible

Dorion has been good in general at fixing his own mistakes. For example the Brassard trade. Even if we lost Zibanejad and the 33rd OA pick in 2018 (very painful), Dorion got back in the end Filip Gustavsson, JBD and Ian Cole (then traded for a 3rd which was used with Ceci to acquire Zaitsev/Brown)

One that might not work though is the Duchene trade. We know how costly it was (4th OA pick in 2019, Turris value, 3rd in 2019, Shane Bowers) an after trading him away, we had Davidsson (gone), Abramov (gone, at least for now) and Lassi Thomson (very long shot to become a Top-4 D-man)

Even if the context was different, at least with the Duchene trade, it was a really good attempt to improve the team.

Team literally got better when all his acquisitions got injured, benched or traded.

Exactly. I think it was pretty clear when following the season's story closely.

No one is expecting you to endorse management moves, at least I hope no one is expecting that !

I do think we have to be fair to players/management/ownership in our criticism. Otherwise we'll look pretty foolish. I think it is fair to argue amongst ourselves about what constitutes fair criticism of management.

Is it fair to criticize Melnyk as a cheap asshole? Sure. Is it fair to say his cheapness likely lost us a great player in Mark Stone? For sure. But the honesty comes into play when we also have to admit his cheapness also probably saved us from re-signing Karlsson and Duchene to those bloated contract. Did his cheapness screw up the team? Maybe, but without him buying the team, we might not have the Senators at all!

When we criticize Tierney for being soft, that's a fair assessment. But he also is great on the PK. We can't just say he has no redeeming skills. Same goes for management. Dorion has made bad moves and ones that haven't worked out. The Stone trade hasn't worked out well and might have been a bad move. But the Karlsson one did work out! The Dadonov contract didn't work out! That's fair, but Dorion got out of it really well!

For the most part you're being pretty fair, but I think think some people, myself included, think you're being a little unfair to Dorion and looking at the results, rather than the logic of the trades/signings at the time they took place. All he can do is try his best to make moves within the constraints of his budget/assets. Some of them work out, like Zub, and some don't, like Murray. Some we could see not working out in advance, like Gudbranson, and some were harder, like Dadonov.

Imagine for a second that Dorion could sign a prime Forsberg for 1 Million. The best signing ever.

Imagine that Forsberg then got injured in the first game. Would it be fair to criticize him for that signing? He had no way of knowing what would happen, but based on the information he had at the time, it was probably a good move that simply didn't work out. A lot of Dorions moves haven't worked out, but I don't think we can say they were bad moves at the time they were made.

This is a lot more reasonable than your first post in this thread. If you have read my posts for years, you should know that I also think the same about being "fair" with criticism and not being too harsh as well. I have always encouraged this. But in this case here with last off-season, I think it's totally fair to say it was just pretty bad. Doesn't change the fact that I have defended Dorion several times in the past and even gave him the benefit of the doubt at the beginning when most were blasting him for Brassard, Burrows, etc

I'm not criticizing the logic of the trades/signings AT ALL. I am critizing the price paid in assets/money for the overall POOR quality of the players we have acquired. I am not sure how can anyone look at this list, look at the assets/money spent and tell me with a straight face that it was not a terrible way to spend. Not for what they did in the past but what they did with the Senators last season, until Dorion quickly started to fix his own mistakes.

You will tell me "ok but nobody could have seen it coming!". I'm sorry but I knew right away that spending a 2nd round pick on Derek Stepan was a terrible purchase. And repeating again, a NHL GM's job is to have good insight and make moves that will work out. Not 100% of the time of course as it's barely impossible to be perfect, but at least bat over 0.500? Last off-season batting-average was really bad.

 

[Byron Bitz]

All teams were not affected equally. The Sens were one of the teams that didn't make the cutoff for the play-in so we had one of the longest off-seasons in the NHL. We also had one of the highest if not the highest roster turnovers in the league.

Also, come on. It's not exactly a revelation that GM's bring in veteran rentals to help mentor what otherwise would be an incredibly young and inexperienced team.

Not only did they not make the cut off for the play in but they also didn’t get to play any meaningful game for a long time before because they were out of the playoff picture.

 

[Xspyrit]

I don't know if people remember "how it felt" during the 1st month of the season? There was legit reasons to worry for our young guys. You don't want your young players to "grow up" on a team that is just not NHL caliber. Look at Buffalo last season, do you think it was a good environment for any young player?

Artem Zub, Erik Brannstrom and Ryan Dzingel basically saved the season. That's when these guys started playing that our season turned around.

It was not about making the playoffs or anything, it was about not getting embarrassed and the first month was 100% embarrassing.

So Norris and Jimmy end up being not ready last year....do they not have to spend to the cap or even bother icing a full roster anymore?
Better players as throw away just in case guys? Ya right
You seem to not be able to understand what they did last year

What if it was the other way around? We are basically all saying the same : we would have liked the short term gaps to simply be of better QUALITY or who would have FIT the roles/needs better

Nobody is disagreeing that we absolutely needed to bring in some veterans to insulate the young guys (also for other reasons). We are just saying that the vets brought were for the most part very bad. They didn't even "insulate" themselves, how could they insulate Tim Stutzle then?

"Hey Josh, look at Derek Stepan, that's the way you have to play"

«Je sens que j'ai laissé tomber le groupe» - TVA Sports

That was a great acquisition, forgot it was in the off-season. Thought it was during the year.

It was on May 1st, only off season because of covid but we can add it to the acquisitions to make it a bit less LOPSIDED

 

[Xspyrit]

We waived Balcers because there was zero room for him after adding Paquette, Stepan and Galchenyuk on one-way deals without subtracting any other forward from the roster, not because they wanted to get rid of him.

We had 10 forwards on one-way contracts + 4 ELCs (Brady, Norris, Batherson, Stutzle) = 14 forwards, the max any team will carry.

Dorion apparently can't do basic arithmetic and his incompetence cost us a decent prospect, one worth approximately the same as the the late 2022 2nd from Tampa.

No chance San Jose would trade Balcers for a late 2nd round pick now. I am pretty sure they'd go with the 24 y/o regular NHLer cost controlled asset. Very low chance that a late 2nd round pick would ever be as good as that.

Balcers is obviously carving himself out as an NHLer, that doesn't need to be denied, but he's also not a big loss even if in an ideal world he'd been kept.

While you're rebuilding, even if you think a player won't be part of your team long term, what is wrong with keeping that player in the meantime so he can gain value? Instead of gving him up for free

Athletes are people yeah, but in this business they are ASSETS

Not really Dorion's fault Balcers didn't have a place on the team with Chucky, Stü, Gally, and Paul on the left side with Formenton close behind and Dadonov, Brown, Batherson and Watson on the right. He was likely going to need to hit waivers at some point if he didnt blow people away, which he didnt. I dont lose sleep over Balcers being claimed as I presume MTL fans dont worry too much about mete being claimed. They are depth players with only a moderate amount of upside and are often quickly replaced by higher upside players in the system. Much more excited to give guys like Sokolov and Formenton a real shot this year than worry what could have been with Balcers.

Doesn't tip last years offseason scales much for me at all.

Montreal signed Corey Perry in the off-season, then waived him just before the season. Dorion was scared to waive Galchenyuk? Or Paquette? Or Anisimov? lol

And again it's not about not having Balcers right now. It's about giving away a decent young player for nothing. I really can't see a GM like Julien Brisebois handling an asset like Balcers like Dorion did for example. It's a half a billion business, you need to manage it carefully. It goes without saying

 

[Xspyrit]

I said people not you, I'm asking what people expected & if they weren't going to bring in game changers which would have cost much more money, I don't see how it would make much of a difference. If they brought in a different defensive defenceman than Gudbranson how much difference would it have made? I agreed they had a lot of misses, but I doubt any other mediocre players would have made much difference to this team. Keeping Balcers for example instead of Galchenyuk would not have catapulted them into the playoffs. It's semantics IMO, six of these rather than half a dozen of the other.

Simply put to answer your questions on this page (not just this post)

If I have this in my pockets :

30.625 AAV (23.525 in salary)
Anthony Duclair
Rudolfs Balcers
Jonathan Gruden
2021 2nd round pick (CBJ - #37)
2020 2nd round pick (CBJ - #52)
2020 4th round pick (OTT - #95)
2021 4th round pick (COL - #124)
2021 5th round pick (EDM - #148)

I'm expecting a much better ROI than :

Matt Murray 4 years x $6,250,000 AAV
Austin Watson 3 years x $1,500,000 AAV
Joshua Brown 2 years x $1,200,000 AAV
Derek Stepan 1 year x $6,500,000 AAV
Erik Gudbranson 1 year x $4,000,000 AAV
Braydon Coburn 1 year x $1,700,000 AAV
Cédric Paquette 1 year x $1,650,000 AAV
Evgeni Dadonov 3 years x $5,000,000 AAV
Alex Galchenyuk 1 year x $1,050,000 AAV
2022 2nd round pick (TBL)
Artem Zub 1 year x $1,775,000 AAV

 

[supsens]

I don't know if people remember "how it felt" during the 1st month of the season? There was legit reasons to worry for our young guys. You don't want your young players to "grow up" on a team that is just not NHL caliber. Look at Buffalo last season, do you think it was a good environment for any young player?

Artem Zub, Erik Brannstrom and Ryan Dzingel basically saved the season. That's when these guys started playing that our season turned around.

It was not about making the playoffs or anything, it was about not getting embarrassed and the first month was 100% embarrassing.



What if it was the other way around? We are basically all saying the same : we would have liked the short term gaps to simply be of better QUALITY or who would have FIT the roles/needs better

Nobody is disagreeing that we absolutely needed to bring in some veterans to insulate the young guys (also for other reasons). We are just saying that the vets brought were for the most part very bad. They didn't even "insulate" themselves, how did insulate Tim Stutzle exactly?

"Hey Josh, look at Derek Stepan, that's the way you have to play"

«Je sens que j'ai laissé tomber le groupe» - TVA Sports



It was on May 1st, only off season because of covid but we can add it to the acquisitions to make it a bit less LOPSIDED

Hey Josh look how good that guy is....on tv because he is better so you are going to the AHL.
They brought in throw away players just in case the rookies were not good enough and threw them away once they saw the kids could handle the situation.

 

[supsens]

If we had kept a guy like Balcers instead of Paquette/Galchenyuk for example (since that's the example you used) we probably wouldn't have made the Playoffs; however, we would have been a better team. Simply put we would have high odds of staying competitive instead of getting thrashed. That early stretch where we were winless was a nightmare. I don't think we would've experienced something like that had we done a better job identifying players who would fit- and not only for the short term.

It's like the guys Dorion brought were cannon fodder so that the young guys wouldn't be "sacrificed"? In any case, the team made questionable moves in "asset management" when it came to acquiring these players. Giving up draft picks for cannon fodder is why people are dissapointed.

Balacers was not playing ahead of Jimmy Batherson Brown watson Dado Paul or Brady. They also wanted to get Logan Brown in who is a better player. They did not have the spot for him or the desire to pay him to learn how to play.
He aged out without improvement and is soft as butter.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

No chance San Jose would trade Balcers for a late 2nd round pick now. I am pretty sure they'd go with the 24 y/o regular NHLer cost controlled asset. Very low chance that a late 2nd round pick would ever be as good as that.



While you're rebuilding, even if you think a player won't be part of your team long term, what is wrong with keeping that player in the meantime so he can gain value? Instead of gving him up for free

Athletes are people yeah, but in this business they are ASSETS



Montreal signed Corey Perry in the off-season, then waived him just before the season. Dorion was scared to waive Galchenyuk? Or Paquette? Or Anisimov? lol

And again it's not about not having Balcers right now. It's about giving away a decent young player for nothing. I really can't see a GM like Julien Brisebois handling an asset like Balcers like Dorion did for example. It's a half a billion business, you need to manage it carefully. It goes without saying

Well don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have handled it the same way they did and Balcers would still be on the roster.

Balcers is clearly showing he's a decent NHLer and should have a role as a tweener going forward, but he wouldn't be filling a role in Ottawa that I'm too concerned about filling another way.

I consider it a bit of a waste, especially considering guys like Paquette and Anisimov were still on the roster that were easily expendable, but not much feelings about it beyond that.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Balacers was not playing ahead of Jimmy Batherson Brown watson Dado Paul or Brady. They also wanted to get Logan Brown in who is a better player. They did not have the spot for him or the desire to pay him to learn how to play.
He aged out without improvement and is soft as butter.

You're getting to hung up on Balcers. I don't care what type of player he is or what he becomes. The only thing that I care about is the team not waste assets (picks, players like Balcers) for garbage. That's the point of my posts.

Again, reading comprehension (or lack thereof)...

 

[supsens]

You're getting to hung up on Balcers. I don't care what type of player he is or what he becomes. The only thing that I care about is the team not waste assets (picks, players like Balcers) for garbage. That's the point of my posts.

Again, reading comprehension (or lack thereof)...

Worthless he had no value, are you one of those guys that thought making fun of 'five assets' was cool?
That was the big smart fan attitude when EK was traded.
Your lack of making any type of point is the issue, not my comprehension
Your post is about the loss of balcers BTW

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Worthless he had no value, are you one of those guys that thought making fun of 'five assets' was cool?
That was the big smart fan attitude when EK was traded.
Your lack of making any type of point is the issue not my comprehension

I suggest you read @Xspyrit posts; he's on the money.
I don't want to go back and forth with the purpose of my posts.

 

[supsens]

I suggest you read @Xspyrit posts; he's on the money.
I don't want to go back and forth with the purpose of my posts.

I suggest you don't make a post about a player and then speak down to others insulting them for directly responding on topic on the player you mentioned.
"No stupid learn how to read" how about you actually read what you wrote.

 

[Xspyrit]

Hey Josh look how good that guy is....on tv because he is better so you are going to the AHL.
They brought in throw away players just in case the rookies were not good enough and threw them away once they saw the kids could handle the situation.

You realize Josh was for Josh Norris right? He was already on the team and on the bench watching this elite play happen

«Je sens que j'ai laissé tomber le groupe» - TVA Sports

2020-21 Ottawa Senators Schedule | ESPN

Then look at the link above. That game on January 23rd, Stepan' penalty allowed the Jets (which ended up being the 7th best PP in the league at 23%) to take a 4-3 lead late in the game. It took a few humilating games for the Sens to actually recover from that (they lost the following 4 games with a 24-8 score). It wasn't even that bad before that Jets game. That's when this very fragile group fell apart (lack of solid veterans to insulate the kids)

That's exactly the problem, what some of you are saying (bring in vets to insulate the kids) just didn't work out. And it wasn't just "not working out", it failed miserably. I'd argue that the only one that seemed to work was Austin Watson. IMO, he was the only one who played his role decently and in accordance to the assets/money paid.

Who else would you argue did?

He aged out without improvement and is soft as butter.

lol what? He aged out?

At 21 y/o, he played 36 games with Ottawa and didn't look out of place at all and had some solid production (better PPG than what 5.0 AAV player Dadonov had last season). At 22 y/o, he suffered an injury in training camp and missed his opportunity to claim a regular spot. Then after going over PPG in the AHL for 33 games, he came back to the NHL for a 15 GP stretch but didn't make his mark, which is not always an easy thing to do on a rebuilding team who lacks talent. At 23 y/o, he got waived and the Sharks jumped on the occasion, like I was 99.9% certain some team would. Now they extended him for 2 years at 1.55 and made sure he would still be RFA at the end of the contract.

Well don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have handled it the same way they did and Balcers would still be on the roster.

Balcers is clearly showing he's a decent NHLer and should have a role as a tweener going forward, but he wouldn't be filling a role in Ottawa that I'm too concerned about filling another way.

I consider it a bit of a waste, especially considering guys like Paquette and Anisimov were still on the roster that were easily expendable, but not much feelings about it beyond that.

I see it like stocks/crypto. I don't sell when it's worth next to nothing (waivers), I sell as high as possible when we think the value is peaking (for a certain amount of time of course). I have some stocks/crypto that I "short trade", some that I "long trade" and some that I hold too

Theoretically, the ability to make money on stocks involves two key decisions: buying at the right time and selling at the right time. In order to make a profit, you have to execute both of these decisions correctly. The return on any investment is first determined by the purchase price.

... However, while buying at the right price may ultimately determine the profit gained, selling at the right price guarantees the profit (if any). If you don't sell at the right time, the benefits of buying at the right time disappear.

 

[supsens]

You realize Josh was for Josh Norris right? He was already on the team and on the bench watching this elite play happen

«Je sens que j'ai laissé tomber le groupe» - TVA Sports

2020-21 Ottawa Senators Schedule | ESPN

Then look at the link above. That game on January 23rd, Stepan' penalty allowed the Jets (which ended up being the 7th best PP in the league at 23%) to take a 4-3 lead late in the game. It took a few humilating games for the Sens to actually recover from that (they lost the following 4 games with a 24-8 score). It wasn't even that bad before that Jets game. That's when this very fragile group fell apart (lack of solid veterans to insulate the kids)

That's exactly the problem, what some of you are saying (bring in vets to insulate the kids) just didn't work out. And it wasn't just "not working out", it failed miserably. I'd argue that the only one that seemed to work was Austin Watson. IMO, he was the only one who played his role decently and in accordance to the assets/money paid.

Who else would you argue did?



lol what? He aged out?

At 21 y/o, he played 36 games with Ottawa and didn't look out of place at all and had some solid production (better PPG than what 5.0 AAV player Dadonov had last season). At 22 y/o, he suffered an injury in training camp and missed his opportunity to claim a regular spot. Then after going over PPG in the AHL for 33 games, he came back to the NHL for a 15 GP stretch but didn't make his mark, which is not always an easy thing to do on a rebuilding team who lacks talent. At 23 y/o, he got waived and the Sharks jumped on the occasion, like I was 99.9% certain some team would. Now they extended him for 2 years at 1.55 and made sure he would still be RFA at the end of the contract.



I see it like stocks/crypto. I don't sell when it's worth next to nothing (waivers), I sell as high as possible when we think the value is peaking (for a certain amount of time of course). I have some stocks/crypto that I "short trade", some that I "long trade" and some that I hold too

Theoretically, the ability to make money on stocks involves two key decisions: buying at the right time and selling at the right time. In order to make a profit, you have to execute both of these decisions correctly. The return on any investment is first determined by the purchase price.

... However, while buying at the right price may ultimately determine the profit gained, selling at the right price guarantees the profit (if any). If you don't sell at the right time, the benefits of buying at the right time disappear.

Ya he is 24 and everyone is better than him. He has already been passed by the younger guys they have no spot for his career high 17 points. He didn't make the team and nobody will trade for a guy thats on the AHL/NHL bubble level because they can't siend him down if he sucks.