"Grabbing hold of something" (Nyquist/Babcock)

Run the Jewels

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Jun 22, 2006
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Cogliano is virtually never on the ice with the two players you just mentioned so that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I do think Sheahan should get a look, but that is mostly because I watch almost every Griffins game and can tell you if they like Andersson for being a big body and being effective that way, Sheahan is better in Andersson at everything except talking Swedish on ice to the other Wings.

Winnik is 6'2" and plays on a line with Cogliano at EVS.
Cogliano also plays on the PP with Getzlaf who is 6'4"
He also plays on the PK with Emerson Etem, who is Dan Cleary sized but only 20 years old.

The larger picture is the Ducks have lots of bigger forwards. Most of our bigger forwards who have some skill are injured. I'm not sure why you are crying about Sheahan not being on the team, I've been pushing for him to get a call up for quite a while.
 

RedWinger10

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Feb 11, 2013
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I think I speak for not only myself in saying....ABBY JUST BLEW MY SOCKS OFF!!! Not sure if it makes up for "everything" but....wow what a show!!!! Kinda makes me look bad now maybe. Am I wrong?????
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Winnik is 6'2" and plays on a line with Cogliano at EVS.
Cogliano also plays on the PP with Getzlaf who is 6'4"
He also plays on the PK with Emerson Etem, who is Dan Cleary sized but only 20 years old.

The larger picture is the Ducks have lots of bigger forwards. Most of our bigger forwards who have some skill are injured. I'm not sure why you are crying about Sheahan not being on the team, I've been pushing for him to get a call up for quite a while.

Not crying only continuing to state he is better than Andersson right now.

Don't care as much about size as most, nice to have if it comes with skill, but can be vastly overrated. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are harder on the puck than anybody on the Ducks. The big three included in that.

It can help, just isn't the be all end all. It certainly helps when you look at a Tvrdon or Sheahan, but in the end the actual talent will be far more important than just size.
 

HTT3*

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Tatar and Anderson have been really good. Smith and Nyquist look out of place at times. Smith is very unstable and is a giveaway machine. I prefer Lashoff.
 

14ari13

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Oct 19, 2006
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I think Nyquist has started grabbing hold of something. He had one goal 2 games ago (he made it happen all alone) and last game vs the Ducks he had 2-3 shifts where his exposiveness and quickness were very noticeable.
 

Run the Jewels

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Not crying only continuing to state he is better than Andersson right now.

Don't care as much about size as most, nice to have if it comes with skill, but can be vastly overrated. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are harder on the puck than anybody on the Ducks. The big three included in that.

It can help, just isn't the be all end all. It certainly helps when you look at a Tvrdon or Sheahan, but in the end the actual talent will be far more important than just size.

Yeah well you said Lashoff wasn't an NHL'er and Kindl is our third best dman. I've watched every Wings game so I gotta say I question your ability to evaluate talent.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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Yeah well you said Lashoff wasn't an NHL'er and Kindl is our third best dman. I've watched every Wings game so I gotta say I question your ability to evaluate talent.

Not counting injured defensemen, Kindl is definitely either our 3rd or 4th best defenseman, and is certainly better than Lashoff. Hell, I'm still not convinced Lashoff is an NHL defenseman on a good NHL defense.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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Yeah well you said Lashoff wasn't an NHL'er and Kindl is our third best dman. I've watched every Wings game so I gotta say I question your ability to evaluate talent.

You also have absolutely zero objectivity when it comes to evaluating Kindl's game.
 

GT500x

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Not crying only continuing to state he is better than Andersson right now.

Don't care as much about size as most, nice to have if it comes with skill, but can be vastly overrated. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are harder on the puck than anybody on the Ducks. The big three included in that.

It can help, just isn't the be all end all. It certainly helps when you look at a Tvrdon or Sheahan, but in the end the actual talent will be far more important than just size.

I agree but keep in mind that the size and strength of players come into play over a seven game series. If a bigger team decides that they're going to hammer the players on the smaller team every time they touch the puck it's going to wear the smaller team down - possibly being the deciding factor in a series.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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I think Nyquist has started grabbing hold of something. He had one goal 2 games ago (he made it happen all alone) and last game vs the Ducks he had 2-3 shifts where his exposiveness and quickness were very noticeable.

I don't know, I think he had a few good plays but I think Babcock sort of meant tangible outcomes, not "good move followed by shot missing the net".
 

Laser Rayzor

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Dec 8, 2012
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I don't know, I think he had a few good plays but I think Babcock sort of meant tangible outcomes, not "good move followed by shot missing the net".

If he really wanted tangible results he wouldn't put Nyquist on the 4th line, seems kinda like setting him up to fail if you ask me.
Also doesn't a beauty break away goal count as a tangible result?
 

Henkka

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Looks like Babcock's choises with the lineup are those that wins games. Abdelkader scores, Cleary scores, Miller scores, Nyquist does well at 4th line. Babcock even benched his favourite boy Brunner. Kindl is doing better than ever believed after those "doghouse" days and Lashoff is still there and team is winning. Still horrible coaching?

That should silence some critics, so you people can start bashing Holland again. He can be the main scapegoat for all bad that happens in the Red Wings world.
 
Aug 6, 2012
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Looks like Babcock's choises with the lineup are those that wins games. Abdelkader scores, Cleary scores, Miller scores, Nyquist does well at 4th line. Babcock even benched his favourite boy Brunner. Kindl is doing better than ever believed after those "doghouse" days and Lashoff is still there and team is winning. Still horrible coaching?

That should silence some critics, so you people can start bashing Holland again. He can be the main scapegoat for all bad that happens in the Red Wings world.

Jimmy was standing on his head both games, the defense wasn't very solid. Babcock's line worked the past two games, but lets not forget the three losses to CBJ and CGY
 

Henkka

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Jimmy was standing on his head both games, the defense wasn't very solid. Babcock's line worked the past two games, but lets not forget the three losses to CBJ and CGY

Nothing ever works perfectly from day 1. You have to learn play with new guys and sacrifice some games before you start getting better results.

That's exactly what has happened.
 

RedWinger10

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Feb 11, 2013
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Looks like Babcock's choises with the lineup are those that wins games. Abdelkader scores, Cleary scores, Miller scores, Nyquist does well at 4th line. Babcock even benched his favourite boy Brunner. Kindl is doing better than ever believed after those "doghouse" days and Lashoff is still there and team is winning. Still horrible coaching?

That should silence some critics, so you people can start bashing Holland again. He can be the main scapegoat for all bad that happens in the Red Wings world.

Howie was outstanding and Lashoff is still by far the weakest defensive link. Hopefully we can sign Dekeyser and put him in Lashoffs place.
 

RedWingsNow*

Guest
Not counting injured defensemen, Kindl is definitely either our 3rd or 4th best defenseman, and is certainly better than Lashoff. Hell, I'm still not convinced Lashoff is an NHL defenseman on a good NHL defense.

Lashoff gets owned 2-4 times a night. His calling card is defense, right?
Yeah right.:laugh:

He belongs in the AHL.
And I speak as someone who wants this team to get younger.

If CC is ready, Lashoff to the A
 

RedWingsNow*

Guest
You guys realize if we sign DD --

Kronwall
Ericsson
Kindl
Smith
Colaiacovo
Quincey
-----------------
Dekeyser
White
Lashoff
Huskins

If you;re DD and want to play this year, that crunch of defensemen might scare you off

Redmond and Daniels are praising the hell out of Kindl lately, making me think he's being showcased
 

PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
28,401
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You guys realize if we sign DD --

Kronwall
Ericsson
Kindl
Smith
Colaiacovo
Quincey
-----------------
Dekeyser
White
Lashoff
Huskins

If you;re DD and want to play this year, that crunch of defensemen might scare you off

Redmond and Daniels are praising the hell out of Kindl lately, making me think he's being showcased

To be fair, White and Huskins could probably fetch something at the TDL and Colaiacovo will probably get injured instantly. Or, Kindl could be dealt, as your earlier post suggested. It looks like a lot, but I don't think it really is.
 

ProPAIN

I am the DANGER!
Nov 3, 2009
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You guys realize if we sign DD --

Kronwall
Ericsson
Kindl
Smith
Colaiacovo
Quincey
-----------------
Dekeyser
White
Lashoff
Huskins

If you;re DD and want to play this year, that crunch of defensemen might scare you off

If they get Dekeyser they'll waive Colaicovo. Dekeyser is more of a defensive defenseman with a little bit of offensive upside. Not Stuart, but a Stuart-type, from the few times I've seen him play and the reports I've seen. It will also free up some space for a trade.

Redmond and Daniels are praising the hell out of Kindl lately, making me think he's being showcased

Or he's actually playing well and his stats are showing it? He's improved in all areas of the ice. He's more physical, he looks like a natural on the PP. I don't know why they want to move him (if they even do)
Or he's
 

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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Nothing ever works perfectly from day 1. You have to learn play with new guys and sacrifice some games before you start getting better results.

That's exactly what has happened.

Yeah. Chemistry!

Except Babs picks and chooses when he thinks players should get time to develop it. Nyquist has been moved around a bunch. He changes the d pairings constantly.

That last win was all Jimmy, he got first star for a reason. He also played lights out on Friday. It's nice that Miller is being recognized as a guy that can stand up, but that's something I've been saying for a while now. Nice to see Babs finally take notice.
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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Changed D-pairings? They have been pretty constant in recent games, since the game Babs benched veteran White. Yes, benched a veteran that everybody was saying Babcock could never do. Changes after that have become almost only when there's injuries.

Ok, if Howards plays a good game, he has to be the reason for that. When Howard plays a bad game, the reason for loss is Babcock's decisions.

If Babcock makes a good decision and inserts Nyquist to TOP6 and we lose, then it's Holland's fault that he send Tatar down.

This is like the opinion changes here day after day, no matter what happens.

Howie was outstanding and Lashoff is still by far the weakest defensive link. Hopefully we can sign Dekeyser and put him in Lashoffs place.

I could bet that Dekeyser isn't any better at this point than Lashoff is right now. It's a pretty big lie to think so.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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I could bet that Dekeyser isn't any better at this point than Lashoff is right now. It's a pretty big lie to think so.

I wouldn't bet that I have seen both guys play quite a bit. Will be interesting to see how DD adjusts to the pro game, but his positioning is far superior. He is a better skater and passer that plays a bigger game. There will be an adjustment period without any pro hockey under his belt, but I do think he is better than Lashoff right now.

There is a reason Helene St. James tweeted about top 4 minutes with PP time. They are offering DD a chance to come in a play if the reports are correct. They have seen him extensively traveling in big groups to watch him play in person. The Wings are clearly sold on him as a group and given the close family relationship he has with Nill and his father skating with Mickey, I think he might benefit from something else. The guys in his way that some people think might actually be moved out of his way quicker, that is speculation but as I said I found the tweets from our beat reporters interesting, it seems he is getting a chance they were reluctant to even offer to Schultz. I think he will still have to start in GR, but it seems they really don't think he will be there long, could be a negotiation tactic, but having watched him play I think it is just because he is a pretty finished and polished product defensively.
 
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Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
Changed D-pairings? They have been pretty constant in recent games, since the game Babs benched veteran White. Yes, benched a veteran that everybody was saying Babcock could never do. Changes after that have become almost only when there's injuries.

Ok, if Howards plays a good game, he has to be the reason for that. When Howard plays a bad game, the reason for loss is Babcock's decisions.

If Babcock makes a good decision and inserts Nyquist to TOP6 and we lose, then it's Holland's fault that he send Tatar down.

This is like the opinion changes here day after day, no matter what happens.

I see the problem. You just have no idea what people are saying at all.

1. Babcock will bench veterans. He'll also bench rookies. He's equal opportunity that way. The way he's *not* equal opportunity is in the way he treats certain players, which has little to do with rookie or veteran status. He favors Lashoff, Cleary, Abby. Abby will get tons of times up in the top6 while producing nothing, and then when he finally gets a few after like 15 games, Babcock is like "knew it all along." Where is that kind of patience with other players like Kindl? Nyquist? Tatar? So no, it's never been about favoring vets over rookies. It's been about favoring certain players over others.

2. Howard's played like, 2 "bad" games all season. Every other game he's been good or great. He's even stolen a few for us, last night being a prime example. We've had way more losses than simply when Howard has played badly which isn't often at all. No one blamed Babcock for the loss to Calgary where Gus was a sieve. It was pretty unanimous that Gus just sucked it up that game.

3. I'm not even sure what your third point is supposed to mean. In any case, Nyquist was in the top6 for all over 1 period. Whoopde freaking do. That's some patience. He just needed some time to develop chemistry! You know, like you said earlier? (Except he didn't get any because he's not one of Babcock's golden boys.)

4. The opinions are pretty consistent. Abby is not a top6er. Nyquist needs some real time up there. Tatar has played fantastically and deserves to be with the team. Cleary is slow. Kindl has improved a great deal and is in the better half of the defensive corp this year. Or are you seriously suggesting that people's opinions on Abby have been fluctuating from "he's a legit top6!" to "he's a bum!"? Haha. Or that "Cleary is awesome!" to "He's slow and useless!" The only people expressing the opinions that Abby and Cleary are actually belonging on a scoring line are the guys who point to a goal scored every 10 games as "proof that Babcock is a brilliant mastermind." It's laughable. As though one goal can wipe out dozens of mediocre games with no production.

No dude. No. Just try and understand what people's arguments are. Because so far it doesn't even seem like you can keep track.
 

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