Grabbing an extra 1st

[2xJack]

Just did read exact opposite from the Athletic. Teams are not ready to buy rentals with giving a 1st. But there more interest, if there's another contract year left, then value goes up. Many teams have willingness to take players, if there's another year left.

That's the case with Athanasiou. He is valued higher, because he is not a rental. RFA and another year with contract rights.

This is probably why we get a second rounder for AA, though. If he were a rental we would not even get that. His value is not good right now.

 

[Retire91]

Maybe Tampa can send us their first just to say thanks for that gift wrapped Quincey trade.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I don't think any FRP's will be traded between now and the TDL. GM's know it's a deep draft and will hold on to them now.

I don't know why you would be calling this a deep draft class. Things turn way south after the first 12-15 guys. Just because we are bad and will be drafting high does not mean that this is a great or deep draft class.

 

[jkutswings]

Every single player on the team is playing poorly, producing less, and giving less effort almost every game. Are they going to dump the whole roster?

Yes. Get ready for the vast majority of these players to not be here in 6-12 months. That's how bad most of them are, and how much turnover is required.

This team is bad enough that they don't need to move anyone off the roster, and there is no one on the team they can get a first round pick for (that they are willing to trade). Trading AA is foolishness. I would say give him a few seasons and see if he matures some more.

If I thought AA would be willing to take a contract that reflected the average of his performance last year and his performance thus far this year, then maybe. But I'd be downright shocked if he did that here, before at least testing the open market, if not outright bolting town for the highest bidder.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yes. Get ready for the vast majority of these players to not be here in 6-12 months. That's how bad most of them are, and how much turnover is required.


If I thought AA would be willing to take a contract that reflected the average of his performance last year and his performance thus far this year, then maybe. But I'd be downright shocked if he did that here, before at least testing the open market, if not outright bolting town for the highest bidder.

Yep check out spotrac or whatever Capfriendly equivalent you like. The Wings currently have 5 players under contract through 2021-22. Hell, they have 15 for 2020-2021 from 35 this year. Of those 20 leaving, about 75% of them will not likely be re-signed because injuries or retirement or being butt at hockey. Yzerman will have a lot of money and a lot of roster spots to fill.

Basically, I have negative interest in retaining AA with the hope that he'll grow up if I can break here, get something of some value for him and Yzerman can build the team the way he wants.

e: I also don't have a huge problem if Yzerman makes the call to keep him and try. Just saying that if I were GM, I would move on, because the likelihood of AA being a consistent 30 goal scorer or a bona-fide stud are not that great at this point. I'd rather try to deal him when he's got a certain amount of value than wait and see if he proves he's worthless or worthwhile. I don't like a player that I have to work my ass off to coax what seems like basic effort out of. I could be wrong and Blash could simply be using him wrong and he'll be a superstud with a better coach. But if I had to make a bet on AA's career track, I'm betting thumbs down over thumbs up.

 

[Shaman464]

Every single player on the team is playing poorly, producing less, and giving less effort almost every game. Are they going to dump the whole roster?

This team is bad enough that they don't need to move anyone off the roster, and there is no one on the team they can get a first round pick for (that they are willing to trade). Trading AA is foolishness. I would say give him a few seasons and see if he matures some more.

AA will be 26 this year. There are people almost half way to retirement in the army by 26. Others have a degree, a family and a career. Almost everyone is out of the highest insurance risk groups by then. If you're not mature by 26, you're likely not going to magically become mature, especially being treated with the kid gloves AA gets treated with.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

With our want/need for an extra 1st rounder

what move(s) do you think we could realistically make to ensure that extra pick comes our way ?

I see only 2 possible teams that i would look into trading with, Carolina's 2nd 1st roughly 23rd overall
and tampa's 2nd 1st 27th.

Think it's possible to dangle AA and maybe svech to carolina as a basis for that 23rd pick ?

I understand AA's value is quite low and will be tough to get value which is why i added svech being his brother is playing there as well but his value is quite low as well haha, Just trying to gauge what we could realistically part with that won't hurt too much of our future. Or do we just not have the assets to make this type of move ?

Two ways to get one:

1. Trade existing players.
2. Take someone's garbage.


I opt for 2. Don't think current players(that Detroit doesn't want to lose) are worth a 1st.

 

[deca guard]

only move we have imo is athanasou and glenny packaged to a contender with both at 50% retained and with us taking back a short term cap dump so that its not costing the contender any cap space . a team such as pitt with their two aging stars wanting to take a serious shot at it this season would be interested in fortifying their forward group . plus both players go beyond this season so they arent rentals . theres other teams obviously , maybe dallas , maybe kenny , and several others . i think a move like this could happen but its not known if yzerman wants to make aa a part of the future core or not . but who knows aa worth after down season . it might take getting back a longer term bad contract in this deal to get a late 1st

 

[Henkka]

last years AA gets you a first second and third. This years AA with last year under his belt, I think, gets you a late first

Just like this.

 

[Mijatovic]

If we trade AA, we likelihood that we get a product that will produce better than him is less than like a 15% chance if we assume that he manages to snag a late 1st. Just remember most of you haters.... that this list is players like Kindl/Svechnikov/Cholowski/Smith/Sheahan/Frk etc etc etc. Mostly misses. A couple of hits on Mantha/Larkin if you want to include them in late 1sts section.

I happen to think what he will provide on ice for us is worth more than that.

 

[Shaman464]

If we trade AA, we likelihood that we get a product that will produce better than him is less than like a 15% chance if we assume that he manages to snag a late 1st. Just remember most of you haters.... that this list is players like Kindl/Svechnikov/Cholowski/Smith/Sheahan/Frk etc etc etc. Mostly misses. A couple of hits on Mantha/Larkin if you want to include them in late 1sts section.

I happen to think what he will provide on ice for us is worth more than that.

Except he's been playing below replacement level when he's not injured. At this point the team is better when he's not on the ice.

 

[MBH]

If we trade AA, we likelihood that we get a product that will produce better than him is less than like a 15% chance if we assume that he manages to snag a late 1st. Just remember most of you haters.... that this list is players like Kindl/Svechnikov/Cholowski/Smith/Sheahan/Frk etc etc etc. Mostly misses. A couple of hits on Mantha/Larkin if you want to include them in late 1sts section.

I happen to think what he will provide on ice for us is worth more than that.

I don't see a ton of upside to trading him.
Even when he'd just scored 30, I don't think his trade value would have necessarily netted us anything equal to the 30 goals he scored. Wingers can be hard to get value for
So now that AA scores at a 10-goal pace or whatever... yikes.

But if you can go get a Georgiev or some hot prospect D from Calgary or Carolina or Nashville? Go get it.

 

[MBH]

Except he's been playing below replacement level when he's not injured. At this point the team is better when he's not on the ice.

Well, Blashill won't be around forever, mercifully.

 

[nhlisawesome]

Well, Blashill won't be around forever, mercifully.

We sure about that? Seems that Red wings reddit has infiltrated the Red Wings front office and convinced our front office that Blashill is an amazing head coach and that Howard is still a viable starting goaltender.

 

[Shaman464]

Well, Blashill won't be around forever, mercifully.

Well, so far AA's had issues with almost ever coach since the major junior level. I would bet that it's more likely AA spends his life as a journeyman or in the KHL than he does ever settling into one system after he hits UFA.

 

[Mijatovic]

So what you are saying is, you'd prefer Kindl/Sheahan chance than AA? Interesting.

 

[MBH]

Well, so far AA's had issues with almost ever coach since the major junior level. I would bet that it's more likely AA spends his life as a journeyman or in the KHL than he does ever settling into one system after he hits UFA.

Yeah, yeah.
You're going to say Blashill/Hunter. So two out of three?
Big deal.
I bet you were one of the one's saying he'd never score 20, let alone 30 goals. So I don't really think highly of your KHL prediction.

 

[lilidk]

Last year we traded Nyquist for second and third. I don't like to see same this year. Better keep him till he got some values

 

[jkutswings]

If we trade AA, we likelihood that we get a product that will produce better than him is less than like a 15% chance if we assume that he manages to snag a late 1st. Just remember most of you haters.... that this list is players like Kindl/Svechnikov/Cholowski/Smith/Sheahan/Frk etc etc etc. Mostly misses. A couple of hits on Mantha/Larkin if you want to include them in late 1sts section.

I happen to think what he will provide on ice for us is worth more than that.

But you're assuming he will continue to provide something tangible on the ice for the foreseeable future. The part we don't know is how Yzerman views each of these players, since he wasn't the guy who drafted them, and may or may not have the same vision of an overall roster as his predecessor. Especially with openly stating that he wants as many extra picks this summer as he can get.

Maybe Stevie Y sees something in AA, and wants to ride it out awhile like you mention. Or maybe he already wants to cut bait. Time will tell, but if he's already decided to move on from AA, then I'd be very surprised if there isn't a trade, either next month or at the draft, whether the player has rebounded by then or not.

 

[Shaman464]

Yeah, yeah.
You're going to say Blashill/Hunter. So two out of three?
Big deal.
I bet you were one of the one's saying he'd never score 20, let alone 30 goals. So I don't really think highly of your KHL prediction.

Yeah, except he's already played the KHL card, tex. He also had some reports of issues in Barrie, where he was okay, but not exactly world burning. And 1 season of 30 goals means nothing Cheechoo had a 50 goal season. Guess where it got him. This season, had he not been injured he'd go in the record books as one of the worst defensive seasons ever. And this season he's on pace for 12 goals.

 

[Mijatovic]

30 goal season is nothing? I don't know what the stats are but I'd guess less than 15% of players get a 30G season

 

[Oddbob]

Yeah, yeah.
You're going to say Blashill/Hunter. So two out of three?
Big deal.
I bet you were one of the one's saying he'd never score 20, let alone 30 goals. So I don't really think highly of your KHL prediction.

Actually he had issues in Barrie as well, so not just 2 coaches. When he got moved there it was attitude related, and there was also talk of problems in Barrie at that time.

 

[jkutswings]

30 goal season is nothing? I don't know what the stats are but I'd guess less than 15% of players get a 30G season

I think that saying it's nothing is exaggeration, but one season of 30 goals also doesn't erase the rest of his track record.

Here's the list of things I think are more likely than AA both returning to scoring ~30 goals AND becoming a more complete, team-oriented player:
* Larkin scoring 30
* Mantha scoring 30
* Zadina becoming a guy who scores 30
* Landing a free agent in the next couple of years who scores 30
* Whomever Detroit drafts this June becoming a guy who scores 30

With a better team around him, do I think AA could bounce back to regularly score 25-30 goals? Yes. In that same scenario, do I think AA also does anything significant to no longer be a one trick pony? No. And I think the Wings will have a decent enough influx of scoring over the next 2-3 seasons that not retaining AA won't hurt them in the long run, and they can use the resources that would have gone to his next contract to help make them a more well-rounded team that's better overall.

If AA returns a late 1st rounder, I'd make that deal yesterday.

 

[MBH]

Actually he had issues in Barrie as well, so not just 2 coaches. When he got moved there it was attitude related, and there was also talk of problems in Barrie at that time.

I don't recall attitude issues in Barrie. Hawerchuk complimented Athanasiou all the time.

 

[Oddbob]

I don't recall attitude issues in Barrie. Hawerchuk complimented Athanasiou all the time.

I don't know what the issues were, I just remember hearing that Barrie had issues with him as well.