Grabbing an extra 1st

Frk It

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Custance wrote an article where he took trades proposed by fans and ran them by NHL execs, and posted who would say no.

One of the offers was kind of ridiculous where we trade both Larkin and AA, but what I found interesting was the NHL Exec said that we could get a 1st rounder for AA at the deadline with a year left in RFA. Would people trade AA for a first? If we think it's likely he leaves as a UFA I'd prefer to get something of value for him while we can.
 

MBH

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Custance wrote an article where he took trades proposed by fans and ran them by NHL execs, and posted who would say no.

One of the offers was kind of ridiculous where we trade both Larkin and AA, but what I found interesting was the NHL Exec said that we could get a 1st rounder for AA at the deadline with a year left in RFA. Would people trade AA for a first? If we think it's likely he leaves as a UFA I'd prefer to get something of value for him while we can.

He could leave. I would, in the current climate. I wonder how much Blashill's departure changes the mix, though.
Most likely, you'll get a pick around 20-30..

Here's what that looks like from 05-14.
05- Mcardle, Rask, Lashoff, Bergfors, Oshie, Cogliano, Pelech, Finley, Niskanen, Downey, Mihalik.
06-Fischer, Sanguinetti, Giroux, Varlamov, Persson, Berglund, Irving, Vishnevskiy, Fologino, Summers, Corrente.
07-Esposito, Nash, Pacioretty, Blum, Backlund, White, Perron, Brendan SMith, Petricki, OBrien, Ross
08-Del Zotto, Gustaffson, Eberle, Cuma, Tedenby, Nemisz, Ennis, Carlson, Tikhonov, Leveille, McCollum
09-Josefson, John Moore, Schroeder, Erixon, Johnasson, Caron, Palmeiri, Paradis, Olsen, Ashton, Despres.
10- B. Bennett, Sheahan, Tinordi, Pysyk, K Hayes, Q Howden, Kuznetsov, Visentin, Coyle, Etem, B Nelson
11. C Murphy, Noesen, Biggs, Morrow, Puempel, Percy, Danault, Namestnikov, Z Phillips, N Jensen, Rakell
12. Laughton, Jankowski, Maatta, M Subban, Schmaltz, Gaunce, Samuelsson, Skjei, Matteau, Pearson
13. Mantha, Gauthier, Poirier, Burkaovsky, Shinkaruk, McCarron, Theodore, Dano, Klimchuck, Dickinson, Hartman.
14. Schmaltz, Fabbri, Kapanen, Bleackley, McCann, Pastrnak, Scherbak, Goldobin, Ho-Sang, Kempe, Quenneville

Here are the Red Wings picks from 19-32 since 05.
Kindl, Smith. McCollum. Ferraro. Sheahan. Mantha. Svechnikov. Cholowski. Veleno.

Mostly, I see a lot of names that people had high hopes for... and that didn't pan out.
Sure, if you think AA is gone, get something for him.
But I'd rather get a semi-to-mostly-developed talent than a draft pick.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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He could leave. I would, in the current climate. I wonder how much Blashill's departure changes the mix, though.
Most likely, you'll get a pick around 20-30..

Here's what that looks like from 05-14.
05- Mcardle, Rask, Lashoff, Bergfors, Oshie, Cogliano, Pelech, Finley, Niskanen, Downey, Mihalik.
06-Fischer, Sanguinetti, Giroux, Varlamov, Persson, Berglund, Irving, Vishnevskiy, Fologino, Summers, Corrente.
07-Esposito, Nash, Pacioretty, Blum, Backlund, White, Perron, Brendan SMith, Petricki, OBrien, Ross
08-Del Zotto, Gustaffson, Eberle, Cuma, Tedenby, Nemisz, Ennis, Carlson, Tikhonov, Leveille, McCollum
09-Josefson, John Moore, Schroeder, Erixon, Johnasson, Caron, Palmeiri, Paradis, Olsen, Ashton, Despres.
10- B. Bennett, Sheahan, Tinordi, Pysyk, K Hayes, Q Howden, Kuznetsov, Visentin, Coyle, Etem, B Nelson
11. C Murphy, Noesen, Biggs, Morrow, Puempel, Percy, Danault, Namestnikov, Z Phillips, N Jensen, Rakell
12. Laughton, Jankowski, Maatta, M Subban, Schmaltz, Gaunce, Samuelsson, Skjei, Matteau, Pearson
13. Mantha, Gauthier, Poirier, Burkaovsky, Shinkaruk, McCarron, Theodore, Dano, Klimchuck, Dickinson, Hartman.
14. Schmaltz, Fabbri, Kapanen, Bleackley, McCann, Pastrnak, Scherbak, Goldobin, Ho-Sang, Kempe, Quenneville

Here are the Red Wings picks from 19-32 since 05.
Kindl, Smith. McCollum. Ferraro. Sheahan. Mantha. Svechnikov. Cholowski. Veleno.

Yeah, you aren't likely to get a better player with the pick you would get from him. It's more about getting value for him if you feel he wants to hit UFA. I would imagine he has more value with a year left of RFA status than he would if you try to trade him next year. Kind of like the Tatar situation.
 
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newfy

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Custance wrote an article where he took trades proposed by fans and ran them by NHL execs, and posted who would say no.

One of the offers was kind of ridiculous where we trade both Larkin and AA, but what I found interesting was the NHL Exec said that we could get a 1st rounder for AA at the deadline with a year left in RFA. Would people trade AA for a first? If we think it's likely he leaves as a UFA I'd prefer to get something of value for him while we can.

Man youre fast, this is what I came in here to post. Obviously Yzerman has been talking to his agent and getting a feel for what he wants for money and things like that. Knowing AA, the demands are definitely a little high and a little too long term so I would explore it.

He could leave. I would, in the current climate. I wonder how much Blashill's departure changes the mix, though.
Most likely, you'll get a pick around 20-30..

Here's what that looks like from 05-14.
05- Mcardle, Rask, Lashoff, Bergfors, Oshie, Cogliano, Pelech, Finley, Niskanen, Downey, Mihalik.
06-Fischer, Sanguinetti, Giroux, Varlamov, Persson, Berglund, Irving, Vishnevskiy, Fologino, Summers, Corrente.
07-Esposito, Nash, Pacioretty, Blum, Backlund, White, Perron, Brendan SMith, Petricki, OBrien, Ross
08-Del Zotto, Gustaffson, Eberle, Cuma, Tedenby, Nemisz, Ennis, Carlson, Tikhonov, Leveille, McCollum
09-Josefson, John Moore, Schroeder, Erixon, Johnasson, Caron, Palmeiri, Paradis, Olsen, Ashton, Despres.
10- B. Bennett, Sheahan, Tinordi, Pysyk, K Hayes, Q Howden, Kuznetsov, Visentin, Coyle, Etem, B Nelson
11. C Murphy, Noesen, Biggs, Morrow, Puempel, Percy, Danault, Namestnikov, Z Phillips, N Jensen, Rakell
12. Laughton, Jankowski, Maatta, M Subban, Schmaltz, Gaunce, Samuelsson, Skjei, Matteau, Pearson
13. Mantha, Gauthier, Poirier, Burkaovsky, Shinkaruk, McCarron, Theodore, Dano, Klimchuck, Dickinson, Hartman.
14. Schmaltz, Fabbri, Kapanen, Bleackley, McCann, Pastrnak, Scherbak, Goldobin, Ho-Sang, Kempe, Quenneville

Here are the Red Wings picks from 19-32 since 05.
Kindl, Smith. McCollum. Ferraro. Sheahan. Mantha. Svechnikov. Cholowski. Veleno.

Mostly, I see a lot of names that people had high hopes for... and that didn't pan out.
Sure, if you think AA is gone, get something for him.
But I'd rather get a semi-to-mostly-developed talent than a draft pick.

It would be really tempting, I think I might do it depending on how contract talks are going. Youre right, a lot of names that didnt amount to much but theres enough who did to make it tempting. There is also the fact that before some of these names busted they still had trade value and could've had value recouped before they busted as well. That last draft is a little early to judge still but I think some of those guys still have some trade value even though in a couple years they likely arent doing anything.

That last draft I would probably take all of Schmaltz, Fabbri, Kapanen, Mccaan, and Pastrnak over AA. A guy like Kempe has the possibility of at least becoming extremely close to as useful and depending on cap hits could be actually more valuable depending on AAs ask.

The rest of the list theres some names definitely in there that i would take over AA. Rask, Oshie, Niskanen (James Neal and Vlasic early seconds this year), Giroux, Varalarmov, Foligno, Patches, Perron, and Backlund just from te first 3 drafts you listed I would consider upgrades on AA. The rest of those drafts have names like Kuznetsov, Carlson, and Pastrnak who are bonafied superstars and other players equal to or better than AA.

Depends on his asking price but I think I might do it and trust the scouts. The chances at a superstar obviously arent great but the chance at a useful player is solid.
 

HisNoodliness

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Custance wrote an article where he took trades proposed by fans and ran them by NHL execs, and posted who would say no.

One of the offers was kind of ridiculous where we trade both Larkin and AA, but what I found interesting was the NHL Exec said that we could get a 1st rounder for AA at the deadline with a year left in RFA. Would people trade AA for a first? If we think it's likely he leaves as a UFA I'd prefer to get something of value for him while we can.

I would. I wouldn't have a couple of years ago, but I'm starting to think that this rebuild is going to take long enough that our current core is going to be the vets for the core that competes. I don't see AA as being that guy, and I don't think he's going to stick around. I love his speed and the entertainment when he's on. But at this point another good prospect in the system is probably more valuable even if they don't end up as good as AA.
 

MBH

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Man youre fast, this is what I came in here to post. Obviously Yzerman has been talking to his agent and getting a feel for what he wants for money and things like that. Knowing AA, the demands are definitely a little high and a little too long term so I would explore it.



It would be really tempting, I think I might do it depending on how contract talks are going. Youre right, a lot of names that didnt amount to much but theres enough who did to make it tempting. There is also the fact that before some of these names busted they still had trade value and could've had value recouped before they busted as well. That last draft is a little early to judge still but I think some of those guys still have some trade value even though in a couple years they likely arent doing anything.

That last draft I would probably take all of Schmaltz, Fabbri, Kapanen, Mccaan, and Pastrnak over AA. A guy like Kempe has the possibility of at least becoming extremely close to as useful and depending on cap hits could be actually more valuable depending on AAs ask.

The rest of the list theres some names definitely in there that i would take over AA. Rask, Oshie, Niskanen (James Neal and Vlasic early seconds this year), Giroux, Varalarmov, Foligno, Patches, Perron, and Backlund just from te first 3 drafts you listed I would consider upgrades on AA. The rest of those drafts have names like Kuznetsov, Carlson, and Pastrnak who are bonafied superstars and other players equal to or better than AA.

Depends on his asking price but I think I might do it and trust the scouts. The chances at a superstar obviously arent great but the chance at a useful player is solid.

Yeah. It's a tough call.
A lot depends on contract negotiations.
But half of those guys never made the NHL.
Of the Red Wings' picks - the only one worth a damn so far was Mantha.

Interestingly, using Yzerman's track record (19 to say 33)... you get better results.
Namestnikov. Vasilevskiy. Erne. DeAngelo. Stephens. Howden.
Now, how much of that is yzerman? How much of that was his scouts? Etc?
Hard to know.
 
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MBH

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I would. I wouldn't have a couple of years ago, but I'm starting to think that this rebuild is going to take long enough that our current core is going to be the vets for the core that competes. I don't see AA as being that guy, and I don't think he's going to stick around. I love his speed and the entertainment when he's on. But at this point another good prospect in the system is probably more valuable even if they don't end up as good as AA.

Another downside to trading AA right now is the low value.
If he was sitting here with 18 goals and 15 assists, man, you could get something.

The smart play is trading Mantha, if you want value.
Even though this guy seems to find away to f*** himself out of a big season every year, I would imagine that he'd draw a big price.

Trade AA and maybe... maybe you get a first.
Trade Mantha, and I bet you get more than you got for Tatar.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
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Another downside to trading AA right now is the low value.
If he was sitting here with 18 goals and 15 assists, man, you could get something.

The smart play is trading Mantha, if you want value.

A 1st is low value? You could let him try to rebound his stats next year, but now he is an expiring UFA instead of a guy with a year left or RFA status. I think that might off-set his value.

Trading the hurt guy gets better value? Come on.
 
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MBH

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A 1st is low value? You could let him try to rebound his stats next year, but now he is an expiring UFA instead of a guy with a year left or RFA status. I think that might off-set his value.

Trading the hurt guy gets better value? Come on.

If you were an NHL GM, who would you pay more for right now?
Athanasiou or Mantha?
Well, wait... I guess Mantha could miss the season... f*** it.

Every f***ing thing that could f*** up this season is happening.
 

PullHard

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AA for a 1st in the ~18thOA-25thOA range is a no brainer "yes" from me

He has a really unique skillset but I don't see this team winning with him playing a significant role, and like others have said the timing of the team getting to contender status is a ways off, it probably puts AA in the downswing of his career at which point this 1st if we hit could be a part of that contention, even if it is a role player.

Also the whole UFA/ will he walk thing based on his history of wanting to get paid. Which I don't knock him for but ... yeah. We can move on.
 
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SirloinUB

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I came to post the AA for a first tidbit and you all are way ahead of me hahah.

Personally, I'd be looking at the Tatar deal and want a 1st + 2nd + 3rd but ultimately would be okay with a first + a future second.
 

SirloinUB

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Another downside to trading AA right now is the low value.
If he was sitting here with 18 goals and 15 assists, man, you could get something.

The smart play is trading Mantha, if you want value.
Even though this guy seems to find away to **** himself out of a big season every year, I would imagine that he'd draw a big price.

Trade AA and maybe... maybe you get a first.
Trade Mantha, and I bet you get more than you got for Tatar.


Interestingly the same article has Mantha for Montreal's first and Romanov as a proposal with an executive saying, "expecting a first and a good prospect for a player who's never hit 50 points is optimistic.


Meanwhile an exec thinks we can get a first for AA.

This to me sounds like AA and Mantha would be valued similarly. Personally, If they have similar value across the league, Im trading AA and keeping Mantha.
 
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ThankGord

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The unnamed executive says, "expecting a first and a good prospect for a player who's never hit 50 points is optimistic.

This bit made me take everything this "executive" said with a grain of salt. Mantha hit 48 points in 67 games last season, he's easily a 50+ point player in a full season. Also looking at a guy like Mantha solely through the lens of points is small-minded.
 

lilidk

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its hard to believe we can get extra 1st . This draft is going to be very deep , everybody knows about it and will be hard to loose their pics . AA is our best trading bait , still not playing , has bad numbers this year.
 

SirloinUB

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This bit made me take everything this "executive" said with a grain of salt. Mantha hit 48 points in 67 games last season, he's easily a 50+ point player in a full season. Also looking at a guy like Mantha solely through the lens of points is small-minded.

After reviewing again, Custance reached out to a few different executives so perhaps It was different execs responding to the two wings related deals.

I have updated my last post accordingly.

Either way your point resonates with me and I would wonder if the executive commenting on Mantha has their own agenda in play.
 

A II R

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This bit made me take everything this "executive" said with a grain of salt. Mantha hit 48 points in 67 games last season, he's easily a 50+ point player in a full season. Also looking at a guy like Mantha solely through the lens of points is small-minded.

That's part of the problem - he can't stay healthy for a full season to show that he's that player.
 

ThankGord

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That's part of the problem - he can't stay healthy for a full season to show that he's that player.

That's somewhat true, although his injuries have primarily been the hand and rib injuries from fighting, not like he's dealt with anything career-threatening like a reoccurring leg injury. He needs to keep the gloves on!
 

ThankGord

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After reviewing again, Custance reached out to a few different executives so perhaps It was different execs responding to the two wings related deals.

I have updated my last post accordingly.

Either way your point resonates with me and I would wonder if the executive commenting on Mantha has their own agenda in play.

Yeah true, could be different execs for each trade. I think saying no to the deal based on how great Romanov has looked would've been a better approach than to say "Mantha hasn't even hit 50 points." I wouldn't take anything less than a first and good prospect for Mantha, but Romanov is probably better than a "good prospect."
 
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Squirrel in the Hole

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its hard to believe we can get extra 1st . This draft is going to be very deep , everybody knows about it and will be hard to loose their pics . AA is our best trading bait , still not playing , has bad numbers this year.
You could get lucky, like in the year that we traded Tatar... find that team that's been shut out of a TDL deal, looking to put some thing on the board like Vegas did.
 

lilidk

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You could get lucky, like in the year that we traded Tatar... find that team that's been shut out of a TDL deal, looking to put some thing on the board like Vegas did.
Only if we get lucky , but still we could get lucky to get someone good in late rounds.
 

odin1981

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This bit made me take everything this "executive" said with a grain of salt. Mantha hit 48 points in 67 games last season, he's easily a 50+ point player in a full season. Also looking at a guy like Mantha solely through the lens of points is small-minded.

His availability is becoming quickly suspect. Which no doubt causes a loss in value. He has what been here 3-4 years and not once posted 75+ games?

His potential pace #'s are meaningless. He is trending at routinely missing 20-25 games a year. Now this is not to say he has no value but his value in the league is probably nowhere near what hometown fans think.
 

SirloinUB

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His availability is becoming quickly suspect. Which no doubt causes a loss in value. He has what been here 3-4 years and not once posted 75+ games?

His potential pace #'s are meaningless. He is trending at routinely missing 20-25 games a year. Now this is not to say he has no value but his value in the league is probably nowhere near what hometown fans think.

Then we should look to keep him long term.
 

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