Grab Jake Dotchin as a free agent?

[Kiwi]

You probably caught it already but apparently the Leafs did a lot of video analysis this summer on our defense, both internally and apparently they went external. Babcock pointed out that Zaitsev was our most effective defenseman at separating people from the puck and then transitioning. I don't know if it just means our defenseman are bad stopping the cycle or Zaitsev is really underrated in that department.

Both the internal and external video analysis showed Zaitsev was the best at breaking up the cycle so that was interesting.

My issue with Zaitsev is when he gets the puck on his stick he looks like a possum in the headlights, he deferred to Gardiner a lot which is smart because he's a great puck mover but Zaitsev flips/off the glass and out and rings the puck around the boards way to often for my liking

He also won't hold his own blueline and stand guys up, he's a great skater and I'd like to see him take more risk and back his skating if he gets beaten but hold the blueline as his first defensive priority

Zaitsev may be good against the cycle compared to our lot but I'd be interested to see him compared to the league, I'd be surprised if he's better than average

 

[WTFMAN99]

My issue with Zaitsev is when he gets the puck on his stick he looks like a possum in the headlights, he deferred to Gardiner a lot which is smart because he's a great puck mover but Zaitsev flips/off the glass and out and rings the puck around the boards way to often for my liking

He also won't hold his own blueline and stand guys up, he's a great skater and I'd like to see him take more risk and back his skating if he gets beaten but hold the blueline as his first defensive priority

Zaitsev may be good against the cycle compared to our lot but I'd be interested to see him compared to the league, I'd be surprised if he's better than average

I was kind of disappointed there was no follow up questions on that because that is actually the type of cool insight I like hearing. Instead the focus is on Matthews vs Tavares vs Captaincy and when can we trade Nylander (because he hasn't signed) ? Media is brutal for the most part this year already.

 

[Kiwi]

I was kind of disappointed there was no follow up questions on that because that is actually the type of cool insight I like hearing. Instead the focus is on Matthews vs Tavares vs Captaincy and when can we trade Nylander (because he hasn't signed) ? Media is brutal for the most part this year already.

They suck, all they do is those click baity type questions that don't tell us anything

I'd like to know who gets the puck out of our zone the best with control compared to the league? puck separation compared to the league for individual players, puck battles won in the corners, once the puck is won where did it go? to whom and what was the breakout strategy? who's supposed to be doing what on the defense pairs, is one guy supposed to be separating the man from the puck or is it the first guy to engage the attacker? Does that make his partner the primary puck mover in that scenario?

I'd like to see some real in depth reporting instead of the same rubbish regurgitated every day quite honestly

 

[crump]

Don't need other teams problems. You know there's more to it than fitness issues. How does someone in the NHL not be motivated to come to camp in shape?..answer......other issues

 

[thewave]

You probably caught it already but apparently the Leafs did a lot of video analysis this summer on our defense, both internally and apparently they went external. Babcock pointed out that Zaitsev was our most effective defenseman at separating people from the puck and then transitioning. I don't know if it just means our defenseman are bad stopping the cycle or Zaitsev is really underrated in that department.

Both the internal and external video analysis showed Zaitsev was the best at breaking up the cycle so that was interesting.

They were not good as a team defensively because they did not approach team D as a team - but instead worked as individuals that would then panic.

 

[Randy Randerson]

He acts as well? sign him forever right now

The "If he can be an average 2nd pair defenseman" bit is what worries me, can he? His tools are great but he doesn't seem to have much confidence in himself even with Gardiner carrying him

I've never actually seen Clune act but I don't think there's a real worry about losing him to that, probably a "life after hockey" type plan

I think Zaitsev's first year was 2nd pairing quality, he fell off this last year but did have a lot of issues health wise. I think in a healthy year if you start with the chart on the right below and back off the Quality of Competition (which they did for last year) that the whole middle section of shot-balance metrics and relatives will rise to the 50th percentile range, which is passable to me. I think the team will also push the CF%, FF%, SF%, SCF%, EXGF%, etc a bit higher by virtue of the other improvements made (Tavares, talent improvements from the system, a year closer to prime age territory for the core guys, etc) so all the defense will be less exposed as we'll be spending more time in the offensive zone. I think there's a real chance that the Zaitsev contract goes from being perceived as an albatross to a value contract in one year

 

[BayStreetBully]

Never. He’s nowhere good enough for us to overlook his asshole-icity.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

A friend of mine plays Fortnite with him. We don't need that kind of person on the Leafs.


That's true by the way. They met through a mutual friend, and the kid goes "I'm Jake Dotchin. I play hockey" and my buddy went "Who?". Had never even heard of the guy.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Yea, sign him and ship his ass off to Siberia.

Eat shit Dotchin, ya useless, head-hunting plug.

 

[Kiwi]

I've never actually seen Clune act but I don't think there's a real worry about losing him to that, probably a "life after hockey" type plan

I think Zaitsev's first year was 2nd pairing quality, he fell off this last year but did have a lot of issues health wise. I think in a healthy year if you start with the chart on the right below and back off the Quality of Competition (which they did for last year) that the whole middle section of shot-balance metrics and relatives will rise to the 50th percentile range, which is passable to me. I think the team will also push the CF%, FF%, SF%, SCF%, EXGF%, etc a bit higher by virtue of the other improvements made (Tavares, talent improvements from the system, a year closer to prime age territory for the core guys, etc) so all the defense will be less exposed as we'll be spending more time in the offensive zone. I think there's a real chance that the Zaitsev contract goes from being perceived as an albatross to a value contract in one year

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I honestly thought after his first season when he got absolutely buried in hard QOC once he hit the 2nd pairing he'd take off and that contract would look good, he's got amazing tools and he looks like he wants to compete but it just didn't happen for him last season

The only reason I'm not advocating dumping his contract now is his playoffs where i thought he looked pretty good and back part of the season, the first part of the season being a bit of a write off with injury and new kids plus his tools which I think are easily top 4 quality

I'd like to see him become more aggressive, I think a change in mentality is the big one, back himself to hold the blueline with his skating and make that difficult outlet pass rather than the "safe" play off the glass or around the boards

It's there he just needs to tap into it

 

[Randy Randerson]

I honestly thought after his first season when he got absolutely buried in hard QOC once he hit the 2nd pairing he'd take off and that contract would look good, he's got amazing tools and he looks like he wants to compete but it just didn't happen for him last season

The only reason I'm not advocating dumping his contract now is his playoffs where i thought he looked pretty good and back part of the season, the first part of the season being a bit of a write off with injury and new kids plus his tools which I think are easily top 4 quality

I'd like to see him become more aggressive, I think a change in mentality is the big one, back himself to hold the blueline with his skating and make that difficult outlet pass rather than the "safe" play off the glass or around the boards

It's there he just needs to tap into it

I wish he had a little less panic button, he and Gardiner should trade a bit of that, Gardiner could use a little more panic button. He seems to make the quick, safe play that just clears the zone when he has time to make a clean pass if he holds the puck a little longer


I think even if he doesn't improve from last year, his contract will be a year shorter so it would cost less to dump or get more in return just by virtue of there being a year less commitment, plus another year of cap inflation makes his contract more and more palatable. I'd keep him in the fold for at least one more year

 

[Kiwi]

I wish he had a little less panic button, he and Gardiner should trade a bit of that, Gardiner could use a little more panic button. He seems to make the quick, safe play that just clears the zone when he has time to make a clean pass if he holds the puck a little longer


I think even if he doesn't improve from last year, his contract will be a year shorter so it would cost less to dump or get more in return just by virtue of there being a year less commitment, plus another year of cap inflation makes his contract more and more palatable. I'd keep him in the fold for at least one more year

He's a RD and I think if you fed him minutes on the Marner PP unit you could pad his points totals enough to actually get a return if you were looking to dump him

I'm advocating giving him this year before we make a decision on him, if he proves he can do a job on the 2nd pairing he'd stays, if he can't we should explore our options

Zaitsev and Gardiner are bloody funny together, if you could combine their good traits you'd make one hell of a player, you'd want to strangle what's left though

 

[Damisoph]

a hard, hard pass

 

[taurine330]

Hopefully he stays off our division.

 

[hullsy47]

i'd grab him without a doubt. he won't cost too much and he'll add a physcial presence on the backend that is missing. the best case scenario is he can come in and play great, even though that is unlikely. if it doesn't work out, he'll be waived and either claimed or unclaimed and buried in the minors.

why?

 

[Randy Randerson]

He's a RD and I think if you fed him minutes on the Marner PP unit you could pad his points totals enough to actually get a return if you were looking to dump him

I'm advocating giving him this year before we make a decision on him, if he proves he can do a job on the 2nd pairing he'd stays, if he can't we should explore our options

Zaitsev and Gardiner are bloody funny together, if you could combine their good traits you'd make one hell of a player, you'd want to strangle what's left though

yep, completely agree...they both have great tools and the skating portion will keep both of them in the league for a long time. If Zaitsev just felt the pressure a little less and Gardiner felt it a little more they would probably both be #2 dmen

 

[Tavares2Matthews]

No sir, I've never liked the guy. He's a dirty player and we don't want that on this club! Let him go play in the AHL.

 

[Kiwi]

yep, completely agree...they both have great tools and the skating portion will keep both of them in the league for a long time. If Zaitsev just felt the pressure a little less and Gardiner felt it a little more they would probably both be #2 dmen

Their frustrating for sure, slight mental tweeks for the both of them and both could be genuine difference makers because from a tools perspective they are really good

Zaitsev has a hard shot he can get off without much windup, excellent skating, a degree of physicality most of the other guys lack, size and he can move the puck efficiently when he doesn't panic and calms down

If he would sort out his mental game I think he could partner Rielly and do really well

 

[Randy Randerson]

Their frustrating for sure, slight mental tweeks for the both of them and both could be genuine difference makers because from a tools perspective they are really good

Zaitsev has a hard shot he can get off without much windup, excellent skating, a degree of physicality most of the other guys lack, size and he can move the puck efficiently when he doesn't panic and calms down

If he would sort out his mental game I think he could partner Rielly and do really well

let's hope that Liljegren is the best of both worlds, he seems very calm with the puck and definitely made some Gardiner-esque high risk plays in his own zone but as long as he's willing to learn when and when not to do that stuff he looks like a good one. If things break right for us on Zaitsev, Gardiner, Dermott and Liljegren I think our D becomes formidable, so even if half of that happens I think we more than get by

 

[Kiwi]

let's hope that Liljegren is the best of both worlds, he seems very calm with the puck and definitely made some Gardiner-esque high risk plays in his own zone but as long as he's willing to learn when and when not to do that stuff he looks like a good one. If things break right for us on Zaitsev, Gardiner, Dermott and Liljegren I think our D becomes formidable, so even if half of that happens I think we more than get by

Watching Liljegren he does give me a Gardiner-esque vibe, great tools with a willingness to hold the puck to make a play, unfortunately he's also got that tendency to skate himself into trouble

I'm pretty happy with the defensive help coming, I think Liljegren, Sandin, Dermott, Gardiner?,Zaitsev? and Rielly is a good base to build around

 

[rent free]

why?

why what?

 

[Notsince67]

100%

Dotchin I heard came in badly out of shape. Alcohol abuse?

Not saying this is the case but my experience with guys like this is that it is often more than alcohol that causes problems.

 

[Notsince67]

He's a RD and I think if you fed him minutes on the Marner PP unit you could pad his points totals enough to actually get a return if you were looking to dump him

I'm advocating giving him this year before we make a decision on him, if he proves he can do a job on the 2nd pairing he'd stays, if he can't we should explore our options

Zaitsev and Gardiner are bloody funny together, if you could combine their good traits you'd make one hell of a player, you'd want to strangle what's left though

He would need to get moved before the end of the year to avoid his NMC

 

[Brock Radunske]

I don't know if they have any pants that will fit his fat ass.

 

[Apollo Leaf]

Pass.

Putting whatever issue TB had with him aside, is he that much of an upgrade over what we have?