Proposal: Gostisbehere to Montreal

[CapnZin]

In terms of trying to overpay to get Gost, it's fair. But it's massive overpayment in value. Drouin is equal to Gost IMO. Adding Mete on top of too much.

Value is somewhat even. In no way, shape, or form is it an overpayment either way.

Mete doesn’t really have a place in our D. It isn’t that he’s no good, but I think our prospects and placeholders can do for now until Myers, Morin, and so on acclimate enough. Not trying to degrade Mete, but that would be like us throwing in another meh winger to MTL when they don’t need one.

Even with Ghosts down year, he’s still on pace for ~42-45 points. That’s pretty good. His play has been disastrous at times, but given that a down year still producing at low to mid 40s for points is very good.

If we trade Ghost, it’s for a similar aged RHD that can be a T2 pairing Dman or the same upside as Ghost.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Value is somewhat even. In no way, shape, or form is it an overpayment either way.

Mete doesn’t really have a place in our D. It isn’t that he’s no good, but I think our prospects and placeholders can do for now until Myers, Morin, and so on acclimate enough. Not trying to degrade Mete, but that would be like us throwing in another meh winger to MTL when they don’t need one.

Even with Ghosts down year, he’s still on pace for ~42-45 points. That’s pretty good. His play has been disastrous at times, but given that a down year still producing at low to mid 40s for points is very good.

If we trade Ghost, it’s for a similar aged RHD that can be a T2 pairing Dman or the same upside as Ghost.

I have concerns with guys who are skilled on D but are fighting consistency and trust issues in their own end. He is going through the ups and downs in the maturity process. Said this a few times now... I'm interested but not desperate for Gost. Maybe some other Habs fans are

 

[Gaud]

I would not do both. If the price to acquire Gost is too much or he is not avaiable, try for Gardiner. If you get into a bidding war for Gardiner, move on.

Habs need to let the youth grow before we make all in moves IMO. I don't think this is the right time and I know... Weber is not getting younger. I just think we are at least 2 pieces away and we need to test our youth a bit more to see how good they are before we start to get aggressive with trying to address the holes.

I agree here that we dont need both (although i consider ghost young). Id also be curious to see how Montreal is evaluating Romanov. I've been reading a few articles that suggest he is NHL ready. His upside is top 4.

 

[CapnZin]

I have concerns with guys who are skilled on D but are fighting consistency and trust issues in their own end. He is going through the ups and downs in the maturity process. Said this a few times now... I'm interested but not desperate for Gost. Maybe some other Habs fans are

I just quoted... didn’t see your other conversations.

As with most who say this- you have a point. If you have a good Defensive parter, there shouldn’t be a whole lot of issues sheltering in one end. We saw that with Provorov - Ghost pair last year. Now, everyone is playing poorly and it’s kind of a domino effect.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree here that we dont need both (although i consider ghost young). Id also be curious to see how Montreal is evaluating Romanov. I've been reading a few articles that suggest he is NHL ready. His upside is top 4.

Romanov looks very good. Playing in the KHL as a 18 year old in a sheltered role. He has zero weakness to his game and was named best D man of the WJC. He likes to join the rush, plays physical, and has great mobility

He has one more year left on his KHL contract so even if he is NHL ready, he is not likely to make the trip overseas next season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I just quoted... didn’t see your other conversations.

As with most who say this- you have a point. If you have a good Defensive parter, there shouldn’t be a whole lot of issues sheltering in one end. We saw that with Provorov - Ghost pair last year. Now, everyone is playing poorly and it’s kind of a domino effect.

Lets face it. I just don't see the Flyers trading Gost unless they get pry away value. With all due respect, that is not coming from me as a Habs fan. It's way to early for us to make a all in move. That type of move is for cup contenders and we are far off from that. Habs need to let our kids grow and we get to evaluate their games

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's really tough to measure how good a player is defensively.

As an example, the Canadiens are pretty good at limiting shots overall. When you dig into the numbers though they give up fewer perimeter shots but are much worse at limiting shots from the slot. The reason for his of course is because while the system is good, the players themselves are pretty crappy on the left D.

My feeling about Gost is that he's probably similar to Petry defensively. Good at transition, good at getting the puck out and probably makes some bad decisions in close. You take the good with the bad though. And while I've always felt Weber was overrated (specifically because he doesn't transition well) he does all the things that Gost and Petry don't. Pairing them together would be pretty wicked.

Completely agreed. There's a lot that goes into what makes up quality defensive play, only some of which we can currently quantify pretty well and some of which requires critical thinking about specifically what we're quantifying in each case and almost more importantly, what we're not.

Where I tend to have a problem with how these discussions go is X player can't do Y, so he's not "good defensively." When we have multiple NHL years of data on quality Defensemen like Gostisbehere or Petry (who's criminally underrated by the average hockey fan), and we're reasonably confident in their repeatability, how they get the job done doesn't really matter in quality of play evaluation.

That's not to say he may not be a fit for your coaching staff's system or to fill a spot in your lineup as a certain other player's partner, but if we're going to insist on filling these general buckets, it can't just be forcing the method over the results themselves. It just leads to people talking past each other and the Robert Hagg's of the world playing 18 Mins/Game last year due to overemphasis on a narrow band of skills.

 

[CapnZin]

Lets face it. I just don't see the Flyers trading Gost unless they get pry away value. With all due respect, that is not coming from me as a Habs fan. It's way to early for us to make a all in move. That type of move is for cup contenders and we are far off from that. Habs need to let our kids grow and we get to evaluate their games

Same with the flyers lol

 

[Guns n Roses]

Montreal: Drouin + Mete

Philly: Gostisbehere

Thoughts?

I like it a lot.

 

[MSSLYNX]

I like it a lot.

Unfortunately 2 players offered are very nice and all but they play the wrong 2 positions: lw and ld.

Would require rw to get discussion going for sure.

This Ghost to Mtl trade thread has been beaten to death in here. No fit.

 

[Guns n Roses]

Unfortunately 2 players offered are very nice and all but they play the wrong 2 positions: lw and ld.

Would require rw to get discussion going for sure.

This Ghost to Mtl trade thread has been beaten to death in here. No fit.

Drouin can play on the RW. Mete is your LD replacement. What do we need to add?

 

[Tripod]

Drouin can play on the RW. Mete is your LD replacement. What do we need to add?

Nothing. We want to keep Ghost.

 

[Edgy]

Would definitely love to have Ghost in Montreal.

I wonder with the emergence of Brook and Fleury (and the fact that Montreal will likely resign Benn for another 2-3 years, giving some competition/back-up on the right side for the next few years) if Montreal could package two top 4 RDs for Ghost + something else.

Flyers:
Petry, Jeff
Juulsen, Noah

Montreal:
Gostisbehere, Shayne
Flyers 2019 2nd rd pick


Flyers an immediate top pairing RD in Petry at a slightly higher AAV than Ghost for the next 2 years (and beyond if they so choose to resign him.)
Flyers get a young top 4 RD in Juulsen, meaning that both him and Sanheim will compete with each other for that 2nd pairing spot. Sanheim being more offensively included, Juulsen being more of a stay at home type in the Brodin mold. They'd be set for years to come.

Provorov - Petry
Hagg - Sanheim
Myers - Juulsen

As for Montreal:

Ghost - Weber
Mete - Brook/Fleury
Kulak - Benn

*Montreal could also then go into FA and try to sign one of Karlsson, Trouba, Myers, Ceci. (whichever is available) to delay Brook/Fleury's insertion in the lineup.

No. This is terrible for the Habs.

You move Petry and who replaces him? We'll have a great first pairing D and then it's all downhill from there. You're plugging a hole by creating another one and trading away Petry's potential replacement down the line along with him. Plus, Petry is a steal at his current contract and production, you hold on to guys like that for as long as you can.

 

[Dooble08]

No. This is terrible for the Habs.

You move Petry and who replaces him? We'll have a great first pairing D and then it's all downhill from there. You're plugging a hole by creating another one and trading away Petry's potential replacement down the line along with him. Plus, Petry is a steal at his current contract and production, you hold on to guys like that for as long as you can.

Doesn't really matter anymore. This thread was started over a month ago. The Flyers already have 3 RHD so we don't need another one. Not sure why it got bumped. Flyers fans said no to that proposal at the time as well.

 

[Positive Vibes]

Yikes

 

[Edgy]

Doesn't really matter anymore. This thread was started over a month ago. The Flyers already have 3 RHD so we don't need another one. Not sure why it got bumped. Flyers fans said no to that proposal at the time as well.

Wasn't talking about Philly's needs. Was highlighting the error in the logic behind a proposal from a fellow Habs fan which applies to any proposal featuring Petry.

 

[Starat327]

Unnecessary necro.

 

[viceroy]

Montreal will likely resign Benn for another 2-3 years, giving some competition/back-up on the right side for the next few years) if Montreal could package two top 4 RDs for Ghost + something else.

Flyers:
Petry, Jeff
Juulsen, Noah

Montreal:
Gostisbehere, Shayne
Flyers 2019 2nd rd pick

Flyers an immediate top pairing RD in Petry at a slightly higher AAV than Ghost for the next 2 years (and beyond if they so choose to resign him.)
Flyers get a young top 4 RD in Juulsen, meaning that both him and Sanheim will compete with each other for that 2nd pairing spot. Sanheim being more offensively included, Juulsen being more of a stay at home type in the Brodin mold. They'd be set for years to come.

Provorov - Petry
Hagg - Sanheim
Myers - Juulsen

As for Montreal:

Ghost - Weber
Mete - Brook/Fleury
Kulak - Benn

*Montreal could also then go into FA and try to sign one of Karlsson, Trouba, Myers, Ceci. (whichever is available) to delay Brook/Fleury's insertion in the lineup.

First of all Bergevin alrady stated that the Habs were not re-signing Benn. Secondly that is waaayyy too much from the Habs side. Petry is definitely a better D-man than Gostisbehere at this moment and your trade makes sure we have 1 first pairing duo and 2 3rd/AHL pairings. Absolutely weakening the Habs.

Once again your post makes me wonder if you actually follow the Canadiens and the NHL more than superficially.

Now if Nurse was made available by the Oilers, I would move Gallagher for him.

Gallagher is the heart and soul of the Habs. Not Price. Not Weber. Will not trade him. Really like Nurse but he is at best a 2nd pairing guy and his indiscipline scares me.

Too much for Ghost.Pass
Drop Mete and add a 2nd rd pick and i'd do it.
Drouin +2nd rd pick for Ghost.

Cool with that. Or possibly Drouin + Romanov for Gostisbehere +2nd

Flyers dont need Drouin. We need Domi for 2C. How about Domi <-> Gostisphere? Also Callagher+ could do it.

The ++++ necessary would all have to be from the Flyers side.

"Defensive skill" is a catch-all that holds little meaning and even less tangible on ice representation. It's essentially a pissing contest of people who believe their eye is best. Consistency is a coach-speak boogeyman.

Measure impact, drop the biases.

Impact? You mean pts? So judging the worth of a D solely using pts? Not my cup of tea.

Gost is a legit first pairing blueliner who can move the puck. At his best he's already shown he can be a top ten blueliner in the league.

Oh he scored plenty of pts 2 yrs ago but the rest of his game leaves lots to be desired. I was a big fan of his when he was drafted. To be honest his name was what peaked my interest but the more I looked in the more I liked what I saw. Fully expected him to turn into a solid #1 D-man and was very jealous of the Flyers. Then year after year his play disappointed me. Didn't see him much of his IQ defensively. Thought he took too many shortcuts. Felt he played sloppy. Reminded me of the manner the stars on the Oilers tend to play. Just my humble opinion.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Horrific for the Habs.

 

[TheKingPin]

I’d trade Ghost personally. I think you can get good production with Sanhiem as the PP1 guy and they are going to play Provy at PP2 no matter what. Ghost would then just be our 3rd pair guy. I’d rather have an asset like Ehlers. Drouin would need an add so I think this is fine.

 

[Rarename91]

No

 

[flyers0909]

I’d trade Ghost personally. I think you can get good production with Sanhiem as the PP1 guy and they are going to play Provy at PP2 no matter what. Ghost would then just be our 3rd pair guy. I’d rather have an asset like Ehlers. Drouin would need an add so I think this is fine.

Ghost is infinitely more valuable than a 3RW when you consider the replacement players for each. We trade Ghost and Morin/Hagg are in the lineup, we keep Ghost and we're talking about Frost/Farabee as 3RW.

 

[the]

Gallagher is the heart and soul of the Habs. Not Price. Not Weber. Will not trade him. Really like Nurse but he is at best a 2nd pairing guy and his indiscipline scares me..

No he’s not, Pricer and Weber are the face of this franchise. If they go down so those this team. Also Max Domi replaced him as the “heart and soul” of the Habs.

He’s a valuable player but he’s not untouchable.

 

[Mike Dukarm]

No he’s not, Pricer and Weber are the face of this franchise. If they go down so those this team. Also Max Domi replaced him as the “heart and soul” of the Habs.

He’s a valuable player but he’s not untouchable.

Gallagher and Weber are the leaders of the team. Gallagher is not untouchable but if Habs trade him, they will ask big overpaid for him. if not he will stay for sure

 

[flyerslducks]

I’d trade Ghost personally. I think you can get good production with Sanhiem as the PP1 guy and they are going to play Provy at PP2 no matter what. Ghost would then just be our 3rd pair guy. I’d rather have an asset like Ehlers. Drouin would need an add so I think this is fine.

i think we underestimate how good ghost is offensively. I personally don't think sanheim can get the same production on the pp as ghost can. Ghost is elite on the pp. He is an underrated defender who is great in the neutral zone. I wouldn't mind ehler but we have guys like frost, farabee coming. We barely have room up front as it is. I want to see how our defense does at least until the expansion draft. We didn't wait on ghost, provorov, sanheim, and myers to just get rid of it all. Lets see what we have. Our defense should help our offense out immensely. We can easily be a top 10 defensive scoring team (i think we were two years ago when we made the playoffs)