Rumor: GMJR: Penguins will try to get younger this off-season, JR is "looking at everything"

[GirardSpinorama]

Yes but the Penguins aren't going to trade Rust if they can't get a return of a PPG 2-way winger with 2 cups that only makes $3.5 million for him. Stone is way more proven and way better than Rust, yes. But the Penguins need that kind of return to justify moving Rust.

Rust is coming off a season that was on par with what Stone has done in most of his seasons. If he can't get a centerpiece on par with Brannstrom, they can't justify moving him. You can't sell an asset like Rust for quantity when he's at his peak value.

Agreed it makes little sense for Pens to trade him and little sense for the Avs to overpay for him.

I'm more interested in a trade for McCann, Avs' biggest need at forward is a 3C.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Our defense becomes utterly shit after that deal.

Are Marino and Dumoulin going to play 35 minutes per night to compensate?

The defense can be added to via FA or other trades.

A deal around Murray and Larsson (oilers) was discussed and generally agreed upon, for example

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The defense can be added to via FA or other trades.

A deal around Murray and Larsson (oilers) was discussed and generally agreed upon, for example

Which defenseman in free agency? You just spent all our available money tied up in Marner, so it's not like they can sign Pietrangelo with the money they have from trading Letang and Rust.

Larsson isn't going to replace what Letang provides the Pens. Any Letang deal absolutely has to include a guy coming back that can replace both Letang's minutes and his offensive contributions.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Which defenseman in free agency? You just spent all our available money tied up in Marner, so it's not like they can sign Pietrangelo with the money they have from trading Letang and Rust.

Larsson isn't going to replace what Letang provides the Pens. Any Letang deal absolutely has to include a guy coming back that can replace both Letang's minutes and his offensive contributions.

Marner comes in at 10.9m. Letang and Rust leave at 10.85. Literally an even swap so that argument makes no sense.

Secondly, it’s a pipe dream to assume Pietrangelo signs with Pitt regardless of this deal or not so you can let that one go.

Sheary and Schultz leaving is gonna free up over 8m. Hornqvist is almost definitely being dealt. One of Murray or Jarry will be dealt. McCann probably will too.

There will be plenty of money to sign a decent D man that can chew minutes, or trade for one. He doesn’t have to be a Letang.

Larsson is a top 4 D and Marino looks legit. Dumo/Marino and Pettersson/Larsson is not bad at all.

 

[KIRK]

Just curious here, if Malkin basically forced Pittsburgh to trade him to Tampa and only Tampa, why would Tampa give up that much value?

That's why I think a lot of people don't appreciate how a Malkin trade would play out.

If it comes to a divorce, there's a very limited number of teams to which Malkin would accept a trade, and given the flat cap and each team's own short/intermediate term cap issues, not all of them would be in a position to deal for Malkin.

Most would be a Phil Kessel style deal-- cap dump plus a prospect-- with maybe another youngish second tier player or prospect added. If the Pens get lucky, maybe it's a 1 for 1 type of deal for a player with legit medium or low higher end talent, where the other team is moving a disgruntled player or its own cap issue.

It's why the Pens aren't trading Malkin unless Malkin wants out.

Well that and Crosby nixing things last summer.

 

[66-30-33]

Agreed it makes little sense for Pens to trade him and little sense for the Avs to overpay for him.

I'm more interested in a trade for McCann, Avs' biggest need at forward is a 3C.

Zadorov is what I would be looking at if I was JR.

 

[Peat]

Just suggested this in the other thread...

Letang and Rust for Marner. Both teams need a shakeup and it fills needs for both clubs.

Makes Toronto better in the next 3 years before Tavares gets too old and/or Matthews leaves.

How to make Toronto fans explode in rage...

 

[Toby Flenderson]

How to make Toronto fans explode in rage...

Not sure why they would hate this. I’ve seen a lot of leafs fans okay with a marner/Doughty base. Letang is not quite Doughty but he’s pretty close, plus they get Rust who is pretty damn good himself

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Marner comes in at 10.9m. Letang and Rust leave at 10.85. Literally an even swap so that argument makes no sense.

Secondly, it’s a pipe dream to assume Pietrangelo signs with Pitt regardless of this deal or not so you can let that one go.

The argument makes every bit of sense because you'll have to have free around $10 million for Pietrangelo. So swapping Letang and Rust's contracts clears that cap space, but you're using it to bring in Marner.

As for the "pipe dream", that's kind of my point. The only defender I'd want that's even remotely possibly available is Pietrangelo. Otherwise, we have no replacement for our 24+ minute a night all purpose defenseman, leaving a gaping hole.

Sheary and Schultz leaving is gonna free up over 8m. Hornqvist is almost definitely being dealt. One of Murray or Jarry will be dealt. McCann probably will too.

There will be plenty of money to sign a decent D man that can chew minutes, or trade for one. He doesn’t have to be a Letang.

And those guys are currently on the roster, so they'd have to be replaced. Are we adding guys for free?

You can't just remove about 6 or 7 guys from the roster and not replace them to free up cap space. You can only do that if you have cheap replacements, which we don't have.

Larsson is a top 4 D and Marino looks legit. Dumo/Marino and Pettersson/Larsson is not bad at all.

That's a very, very weak top four. Only Marino has any sort of offensive upside out of the bunch.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The days of Letang playing 25 minutes a night are over. He is a liability as the PPQ cause he can not hit the net. Give me 2 youngsters with h offensive upside who can ease zone entry. We need 1 RW for Crosby and 2 oD

 

[Empoleon8771]

Inside the Penguins’ collapse and the big changes still to come

This article says that the Penguins aren't going to be a cap team for next year, with plans of falling in the low to mid $70 million range. Rival GMs expect the Penguins to look into trading Letang and mostly target futures for him.

I have strong doubts that the Penguins would either try to do that or would be able to do that, but I guess it's worth sharing. It's almost impossible for the Penguins to get to that cap area without a Letang trade, it requires the Penguins to trade Bjugstad, Johnson and maybe Hornqvist without taking any money back. But trading Letang for only futures would accomplish that. What teams would offer a strong futures package for Letang?

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Inside the Penguins’ collapse and the big changes still to come

This article says that the Penguins aren't going to be a cap team for next year, with plans of falling in the low to mid $70 million range. Rival GMs expect the Penguins to look into trading Letang and mostly target futures for him.

I have strong doubts that the Penguins would either try to do that or would be able to do that, but I guess it's worth sharing. It's almost impossible for the Penguins to get to that cap area without a Letang trade, it requires the Penguins to trade Bjugstad, Johnson and maybe Hornqvist without taking any money back. But trading Letang for only futures would accomplish that.

Entirely depends on the “futures”. If JR can’t get a good haul of quality picks it makes no sense to trade away our best defensemen just for cap space when we’re still trying to win cups.

I’m not against the idea of dealing Letang but it would have to make sense.

Not sure what team would be interested in his services, maybe Toronto. The blues too if they lose Pietrangelo.

 

[57special]

I wonder what sort of player the Pens would get for #15? Salary would play into things, of course. The #15 would be somewhat appealing for a team with no cap problems, really appealing for a team up against it, such as TBL.

 

[Riptide]

I'm more interested in a trade for McCann, Avs' biggest need at forward is a 3C.

McCann is going to be an interesting player this summer/fall. His overall numbers are good - 66gp, 14g/35pts (43.5pt pace). He at times looked like a very good C. And then also managed to get himself scratched from the lineup in a PO game. The issue is that when he was productive and looking good, he wasn't playing 3C, but more of a 2C role when Crosby or Malkin were out (they missed half the games McCann played).

Now if everyone thought he was a 20g/40pt center, then he'd be looking at 4-5m with some term. However I think most can agree that even prior to the flat cap that he wasn't going to get that. So the question becomes... what does he get/want, and can Pittsburgh afford that? If Murray isn't here, then depending on who is coming back in such a deal, the answer is probably yes. If Murray is here (or some 6-7m player is coming back in a MM trade) I think the answer is an easy no.

 

[Djp]

My personal Pens assessment....

Cap friendly right now they are st $68M

If they resign F and D RFAs at same amt and let UFAs walk

That adds $7M
Pick one goalie to sign for $4M and trade the other. Backup costs $1M.

That adds $12M putting them near $80M

To get down they could

1. Trade Hornqvist for a late pick. Prospect replaces him for about $2M.

2. Trade Rust for prospects

3. Trade Leta n for a decent Dman making around $4M. Look at a team who wants shorter term because they haveptospects. The Dman would be a mid pair one.

This would get them down to the low $70S after rep,acing players with acquired ones or prospects. A deal might be in two parts like trading Letang elsewhere for lower salaried forwards then acquire someone like Montour ftom Buffalo eho might cost around $3M less than Letang.

 

[Riptide]

Marner comes in at 10.9m. Letang and Rust leave at 10.85. Literally an even swap so that argument makes no sense.

Secondly, it’s a pipe dream to assume Pietrangelo signs with Pitt regardless of this deal or not so you can let that one go.

Sheary and Schultz leaving is gonna free up over 8m. Hornqvist is almost definitely being dealt. One of Murray or Jarry will be dealt. McCann probably will too.

There will be plenty of money to sign a decent D man that can chew minutes, or trade for one. He doesn’t have to be a Letang.

Larsson is a top 4 D and Marino looks legit. Dumo/Marino and Pettersson/Larsson is not bad at all.

Dude, it's simple math. Pittsburgh has ~13m in cap space for next season. They still need to sign Jarry (assuming they're trading MM). They also need to sign a few RFAs to fill out the roster, and while these guys might not make a lot individually, cumulatively it's still going to add up to 3-4m. Which means if we're going D shopping we have maybe 3-4m to find someone - and that's without us signing McCann. And while we don't "need" a Letang... we do need someone close to him. Do you remember what the 2017 POs looked like when we didn't have him to help transition the puck out of the zone? Clearly not...

 

[Dr Quincy]

Agreed it makes little sense for Pens to trade him and little sense for the Avs to overpay for him.

I'm more interested in a trade for McCann, Avs' biggest need at forward is a 3C.

If McCann was best as a 3C then he'd be filling that role for PIT. Unfortunately he has neither the vision nor the defense to be a true C.

Decent middle 6 wing though.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

If McCann was best as a 3C then he'd be filling that role for PIT. Unfortunately he has neither the vision nor the defense to be a true C.

Decent middle 6 wing though.

No thanks then. We have a plethora of middle 6 wingers who are pretty good. We need a true 3C; ideally a young soderberg.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Dude, it's simple math. Pittsburgh has ~13m in cap space for next season. They still need to sign Jarry (assuming they're trading MM). They also need to sign a few RFAs to fill out the roster, and while these guys might not make a lot individually, cumulatively it's still going to add up to 3-4m. Which means if we're going D shopping we have maybe 3-4m to find someone - and that's without us signing McCann. And while we don't "need" a Letang... we do need someone close to him. Do you remember what the 2017 POs looked like when we didn't have him to help transition the puck out of the zone? Clearly not...

The money coming in from Marner is offset basically down to the penny by the money leaving in Letang and Rust. Completely even swap. Has no effect on the money allotted for our raises/re-signings. None whatsoever. You’re right it’s simple math.

The penguins have very good trade chips with Murray and McCann. They can use those to either free up money or trade for a very good defenseman like Larsson from EDM.

Comparing the defense from 2017 to now is ridiculous. Only Letang and Dumo are still on the team from then. And even so, Letang is not a defensive specialist. His defensive numbers could be offset with a guy like Larsson for example, it’s his offensive production that would be missed.

 

[molon labe]

Letang trade makes the most sense for me.

I'd target a 2C to play 3C. Not often do all-star top defensemen come available at his price point... Pens do this merely for an age/shakeup/salary move. He should command a top asset(s).

Murray (RFA)
Letang (2 x 7.25)
Bjugstad (1 x 4.1)
McCann* (RFA - has been criticized but that might be posturing for a lower cap hit)
Aston-Reese (1 x 1)
J.Johnson (3 x 3.25)
Hornqvist* (big maybe - would require system changes as he's improbable to replace)

 

[Captain Mountain]

 

[Toby Flenderson]

We just can not afford to trade our 1st this year and Poulin (our 1st last year) Because we already don’t have a 1st next year.

Not to mention we don’t need a center or LW. He would play 3C, which is fine but we would have to trade Letang for assets then use those because we are already thin on prospects

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's not a chance in hell the Penguins trade Poulin for Domi, if for no other reason than the cap.

I do think Domi to the Penguins may make some sense, but Poulin for Domi sure as heck isn't that.

 

[Captain Mountain]

There's not a chance in hell the Penguins trade Poulin for Domi, if for no other reason than the cap.

I do think Domi to the Penguins may make some sense, but Poulin for Domi sure as heck isn't that.

The bottom part probably isn't coming from Friedman, but rather the twitter user. Although I have pretty hard time figuring out what a trade might look like if Pittsburgh's 1st and Poulin are off the table and there are cap considerations for Pittsburgh, considering most of the big money peices the Pens would have available likely don't work for Montreal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The bottom part probably isn't coming from Friedman, but rather the twitter user. Although I have pretty hard time figuring out what a trade might look like if Pittsburgh's 1st and Poulin are off the table and there are cap considerations for Pittsburgh, considering most of the big money peices the Pens would have available likely don't work for Montreal.

I think it would probably something around Rust for Domi. I'm not really sure how much Rust does for Montreal, but I don't think Montreal's in a position to be asking for a ransom for Domi either.

Montreal would probably prefer Dumoulin, and I could see that if the Penguins had a Rust for LD swap lined up, but I think Rust for Domi would be the more likely situation.