Post-Game Talk: [GM28] Canucks defeat Hurricanes | 4-3 (Pettersson, Miller, Mikheyev, & Lafferty) | Skin of Their Teeth

[MS]

At the ages that Pesce and Slavin hit UFA, an older 29 for Pesce and 31 for Slavin in 2025, packing on those retirement years not ideal and not something that Dundon typically likes to do.

Would have expected them to have been more aggressive the past couple of seasons in going for it.

Yup, they've basically just sat on their hands and watched the world go by.

Imagine that team with JT Miller on it.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

When did ya'll get your first cellular telephone? How old were you, or what grade? Do you remember the sound of a dialup modem?



That's a good cutoff too. But it seems so weird to define a generation by such a stupid thing that actually completely transcends those generations.

I was 11 when I got my Nokia. I don’t remember the sound of dialup modem. First experience with computer was Windows 98

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

View attachment 780819

I found this

So pretty much if you can remember y2k is the millennial cutoff. I had my first champagne then and Im middle gen millennial

When did ya'll get your first cellular telephone? How old were you, or what grade? Do you remember the sound of a dialup modem?

ok old person here

on the other end, the millennial/gen x cut off imo is were you in high school when you first experienced internet that didn’t involve dialing

i guess that kind of assumes you are middle class and grew up in the global north, but i think for north america it’s pretty solid

and i think, like remembering a world before 9/11, it actually tracks with a fundamentally different way you understand and interact with the world

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Hearing Tocchet on the post game praising Lafferty… Kuz is pretty much done here

Nah, we thought the same with Hog last month

Kuzy can still turn things around.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yup, they've basically just sat on their hands and watched the world go by.

Imagine that team with JT Miller on it.

They were playing petty games with Montreal, getting revenge for the Aho OS, getting KK. But, KK at 21 wasn't going to make a massive impact for them the past 2 seasons. Started out great this season with 13 points in 15 games, then only netted 2 goals in the next 12. Up to 15 points in 27 games. Was close to a 70 point pace, now back down to a 46 point pace, which is more what he has shown to produce.

But, up to each team to decide if they want to try to win or if they want to have a good solid team year in year out for a longer period of time.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Has there been any update on Suter?

I really don't think you can break up Joshua-Blueger-Garland at this point.

You can throw anyone between Joshua and Garland and it'll be an effective bottom 6 line. Aman should have that job next year (assuming they bring back Joshua).

This is a good thing - it frees Suter, an actual good center, to be deployed in a way where he is more impactful.

 

[Bobby9]

Have to think about play DeSmith next game? Dudes playing very well.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

You can throw anyone between Joshua and Garland and it'll be an effective bottom 6 line. Aman should have that job next year (assuming they bring back Joshua).

This is a good thing - it frees Suter, an actual good center, to be deployed in a way where he is more impactful.

otoh if garland is here next year we are in trouble

beat case scenario is we keep him and he contributes the way he has been of late, even while not scoring at all, and in the summer some bad team takes him off our hands with a small sweetener under the assumption that he was buried behind better scorers and gambling that with his jam he can be a bad team scorer for them

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Yup, they've basically just sat on their hands and watched the world go by.

Imagine that team with JT Miller on it.

They made the same mistakes Gillis made of doing the "Detroit model". Teams should not be going for this. Detroit was probably in the best 0.5% of all possible outcomes in the drafts around the turn of the millennium. Stanley Cup windows can end quickly. I get not wanting to give up prime assets for rentals. But, Carolina needed to do what Vegas did when elite talent was available and not be afraid to lose someone like Scott Morrow.

 

[Vector]

Has there been any update on Suter?

I really don't think you can break up Joshua-Blueger-Garland at this point.

He’s back at practice and is a full participant. Sent Karlsson down because they think he’ll be ready for the Panthers.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

They made the same mistakes Gillis made of doing the "Detroit model". Teams should not be going for this. Detroit was probably in the best 0.5% of all possible outcomes in the drafts around the turn of the millennium. Stanley Cup windows can end quickly. I get not wanting to give up prime assets for rentals. But, Carolina needed to do what Vegas did when elite talent was available and not be afraid to lose someone like Scott Morrow.

i disagree with this retroactive idea that gillis didn’t go all in because he never acquired jeff carter with cap space we didn’t have

he didn’t make all the right choices but adding ballard, hamhuis, and manny, while rounding out the roster with torres, higgins, and lappy, while basically ponzi scheming the salary cap all year, is going all in

and i think he learned that after being conservative in 2010 (settling on alberts as his willie mitchell replacement)

They made the same mistakes Gillis made of doing the "Detroit model". Teams should not be going for this. Detroit was probably in the best 0.5% of all possible outcomes in the drafts around the turn of the millennium. Stanley Cup windows can end quickly. I get not wanting to give up prime assets for rentals. But, Carolina needed to do what Vegas did when elite talent was available and not be afraid to lose someone like Scott Morrow.

i disagree with this revisionist idea that gillis didn’t go all in because he never acquired jeff carter with cap space we didn’t have

he didn’t make all the right choices but adding ballard, hamhuis, and manny, while rounding out the roster with torres, higgins, and lappy, and basically ponzi scheming the salary cap is going all in

and i think he learned that by

 

[timw33]

They were playing petty games with Montreal, getting revenge for the Aho OS, getting KK. But, KK at 21 wasn't going to make a massive impact for them the past 2 seasons. Started out great this season with 13 points in 15 games, then only netted 2 goals in the next 12. Up to 15 points in 27 games. Was close to a 70 point pace, now back down to a 46 point pace, which is more what he has shown to produce.

But, up to each team to decide if they want to try to win or if they want to have a good solid team year in year out for a longer period of time.

I think it was a mistake for them to let Trocheck go to UFA, he was such a perfect fit as the RHS 2C who took high volume FOs, and was the RHS net front guy on the last Powerplay that actually was a threat every time they were out there. Been a gaping hole ever since for them, and like you guys have said, they are sitting on their hands watching things happen when they have had so much excess draft and futures capital to use to do something about it like the LAK did with their bumper crop.

When Pacioretty and Svechnikov both went down to injuries (Pacioretty a total freak accident too) within two weeks of each other before the deadline, they did absolutely nothing about it and essentially punted on contending.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

i disagree with this retroactive idea that gillis didn’t go all in because he never acquired jeff carter with cap space we didn’t have

he didn’t make all the right choices but adding ballard, hamhuis, and manny, while rounding out the roster with torres, higgins, and lappy, while basically ponzi scheming the salary cap all year, is going all in

and i think he learned that after being conservative in 2010 (settling on alberts as his willie mitchell replacement)



i disagree with this revisionist idea that gillis didn’t go all in because he never acquired jeff carter with cap space we didn’t have

he didn’t make all the right choices but adding ballard, hamhuis, and manny, while rounding out the roster with torres, higgins, and lappy, and basically ponzi scheming the salary cap is going all in

and i think he learned that by

I meant post 2011.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I meant post 2011.

right but with what cap space? they went all in, and then were stuck because that’s the literal definition of going all in

 

[theguardianII]

I'd trade him in a heartbeat if I could get a top 4 Dman.

You bet, stopping goals can be consistent and scoring streaky. But Boeser is a highly skilled complimentary player

Let's trade the guy who's leading the team in goals, what a great idea

To get a guy that help prevent 50 goals a year, oh YA

That's a lot of goals to replace.

Not really, after his 11 goals 4 games and three empty netter's, not really. Lafferty who came out of nowhere has 8 now and is paid a pittance, complimentary players there are a few. Besides even as good as Garland is playing there are a few on the team now that can do the same thing much cheaper.
So Boeser's goals could be made up with a player that scores like Lafferty, PDG, Bains,....

Myers - that was a good effort. Him and Zadorov kept their end clean and consistently moved people off the puck and cleared their zone. Myers has shown that when he gets in the right combo he can be effective as he was with Soucy earlier in the season. Duet of Myers and Zadorov could be a mainstay if they play like this. Liked both on the PK

Myers and Zadorov have been on the ice for only one goal against since Zadorov got here.
There haven't even been that many shots on goal, I think it is 5/6 and I don't think there has been one breakaway.

So for around 1/3 of the game there are almost no shots and no goals.
And they look like they are coasting. Man are they fast though.

Carolina looks like a train wreck.
Canucks have had some luck in getting some team that are flat as a pancake, Edmonton, San Jose, Carolina and a few in the 2nd of back to backs.

It was a win and the team looked inspired for stretches.
Kuzmenko outplayed his line mates by quite a bit. He was not scored on when on the ice. Won 4 of 5 board battles and was often the best back checker on that line. Watch the game.

Tocchet and Miller seem to be the same type of people but Tocchet is the coach and can let his opinions have more weight.

It seems to me that Tocchet has decided there is nothing the Kuzmenko will do that will change his mind.

It also is apparent that he has fixated on him and ignored other more glaring mistakes, Hughes for one, not just jumping on the ice early, not paying attention, to being the last man coasting on back checking for their first goal and standing outside of the box watching with nobody around him on their second, he let his check score. Those are huge mistakes, massive for a defenceman. Cole and Hronek too get passes.

The Canuck management has to make a few more trades, they HAVE to move Garland's contract and Boeser's too. Boeser has not been all that effective since the 14 game halfway mark, 3 of his 7 have been empty netters and has bloated his goal total. Where he is in the stat leaders has as much to do with he has played up to 4 to 8 more games.

Rutherford/Alvin have shown they can find big fast cheap players so replacing those contracts can be replaced for cap savings.
Who knows maybe Tocchet decides that because

 

[andora]

Aho is a PPG guy. Svech, also typically in the 70's. That's their best offensive guys. Very good players, but not superstars. More Star level.

Does beg the question, does Carolina push hard this season if they are losing Pesce/Skjei this summer? Are they going to fix their goaltending and add a scorer? They did let both Hamilton/Ferland walk when they hit UFA. Dundon's philosophy is to not pay guys more than he feels they are worth. They did sign Aho, but he was due to hit UFA at 27 so he has plenty of good years ahead of him. Pesce is 29 and turns 30 this time next year. Do they want to lock themselves into a 7-8 year contract with him?

These last couple of seasons, really was the time for the Hurricanes to push. Going for KK versus pony up for someone who was an immediate help was an odd decision. More based on revenge vs. trying to win with their core.

Svechnikov has never hit 70 points in a season. The skills + eye test have never added up to any really elite results.

And yeah, their owner is a hardass about long-term extensions and extending d-men in particular so I'd expect both of those guys to be gone. And because they're a smart organization they'll probably find pretty decent replacements, but it's hard to see them actually getting *upgrades* and moving up the contender ladder.

Weird team in a weird place right now.

I think the orlov signing safety netted them and i think they will re sign one of orlov of skjei

I think it was a mistake for them to let Trocheck go to UFA, he was such a perfect fit as the RHS 2C who took high volume FOs, and was the RHS net front guy on the last Powerplay that actually was a threat every time they were out there. Been a gaping hole ever since for them, and like you guys have said, they are sitting on their hands watching things happen when they have had so much excess draft and futures capital to use to do something about it like the LAK did with their bumper crop.

When Pacioretty and Svechnikov both went down to injuries (Pacioretty a total freak accident too) within two weeks of each other before the deadline, they did absolutely nothing about it and essentially punted on contending.

Svech was after the deadline

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

You bet, stopping goals can be consistent and scoring streaky. But Boeser is a highly skilled complimentary player

To get a guy that help prevent 50 goals a year, oh YA

Not really, after his 11 goals 4 games and three empty netter's, not really. Lafferty who came out of nowhere has 8 now and is paid a pittance, complimentary players there are a few. Besides even as good as Garland is playing there are a few on the team now that can do the same thing much cheaper.
So Boeser's goals could be made up with a player that scores like Lafferty, PDG, Bains,....

Myers and Zadorov have been on the ice for only one goal against since Zadorov got here.
There haven't even been that many shots on goal, I think it is 5/6 and I don't think there has been one breakaway.

So for around 1/3 of the game there are almost no shots and no goals.
And they look like they are coasting. Man are they fast though.

Carolina looks like a train wreck.
Canucks have had some luck in getting some team that are flat as a pancake, Edmonton, San Jose, Carolina and a few in the 2nd of back to backs.

It was a win and the team looked inspired for stretches.
Kuzmenko outplayed his line mates by quite a bit. He was not scored on when on the ice. Won 4 of 5 board battles and was often the best back checker on that line. Watch the game.

Tocchet and Miller seem to be the same type of people but Tocchet is the coach and can let his opinions have more weight.

It seems to me that Tocchet has decided there is nothing the Kuzmenko will do that will change his mind.

It also is apparent that he has fixated on him and ignored other more glaring mistakes, Hughes for one, not just jumping on the ice early, not paying attention, to being the last man coasting on back checking for their first goal and standing outside of the box watching with nobody around him on their second, he let his check score. Those are huge mistakes, massive for a defenceman. Cole and Hronek too get passes.

The Canuck management has to make a few more trades, they HAVE to move Garland's contract and Boeser's too. Boeser has not been all that effective since the 14 game halfway mark, 3 of his 7 have been empty netters and has bloated his goal total. Where he is in the stat leaders has as much to do with he has played up to 4 to 8 more games.

Rutherford/Alvin have shown they can find big fast cheap players so replacing those contracts can be replaced for cap savings.
Who knows maybe Tocchet decides that because

Wi the all due respext

No

 

[timw33]

I think the orlov signing safety netted them and i think they will re sign one of orlov of skjei

Svech was after the deadline

Ah that's right. In any case as soon as they lost Pacioretty they were short a legit top-6 finisher.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

He’s back at practice and is a full participant. Sent Karlsson down because they think he’ll be ready for the Panthers.

Good to know. He was playing very well. I assume Blueger will go back to 4th.

 

[m9]

Good to know. He was playing very well. I assume Blueger will go back to 4th.

Doubt that happens right away, that line is playing well and they'll probably slot in Suter elsewhere.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Doubt that happens right away, that line is playing well and they'll probably slot in Suter elsewhere.

For Aman

PDG - Suter - Kuz is a pretty talented 4th line.

 

[alternate]

The play Kuzmenko made with about 10 minutes left in a 1 goal game is all the problems rolled into 1 with this player.

Kuze is skating down the right wing, Shorty says his linemates have gone for a shift, Kuze enters the zone. "OK, now dump it into the corner and go change."

No, Kuzmenko pulls up and curls back towards the blueline. "OK, skilled guy with good IQ, keeping possession and waiting for reinforcements. Good, now slide the puck in deep, let the fresh guys chase it, and go make a change."

No, Kuzmenko tries a weak ass backhand across the ice just inside the bueline. Zadorov backs off (Shorty: Zadorov recognized that's too dangerous at this point of the game). Carolina goes back the other way, and a tired Kuzmenko who should have been on the bench by this point is back playing defense.

We got the puck back pretty quickly and no harm was done, but that's just not acceptable decision making. Also passed up a couple good looks trying to make the pretty pass instead. The latter can be written off as a confidence issue -- don't think I can beat a goalie right now, so let someone else try.

But the former is the stuff that will get him back in the press box right quick. Situational awareness leads to wins and losses. Really stupid, pointless play. I went into the game feeling he needed to be reunited with EP ASAP, but plays like that have me warming to the idea of trading Kuzmenko.

 

[andora]

The play Kuzmenko made with about 10 minutes left in a 1 goal game is all the problems rolled into 1 with this player.

Kuze is skating down the right wing, Shorty says his linemates have gone for a shift, Kuze enters the zone. "OK, now dump it into the corner and go change."

No, Kuzmenko pulls up and curls back towards the blueline. "OK, skilled guy with good IQ, keeping possession and waiting for reinforcements. Good, now slide the puck in deep, let the fresh guys chase it, and go make a change."

No, Kuzmenko tries a weak ass backhand across the ice just inside the bueline. Zadorov backs off (Shorty: Zadorov recognized that's too dangerous at this point of the game). Carolina goes back the other way, and a tired Kuzmenko who should have been on the bench by this point is back playing defense.

We got the puck back pretty quickly and no harm was done, but that's just not acceptable decision making. Also passed up a couple good looks trying to make the pretty pass instead. The latter can be written off as a confidence issue -- don't think I can beat a goalie right now, so let someone else try.

But the former is the stuff that will get him back in the press box right quick. Situational awareness leads to wins and losses. Really stupid, pointless play. I went into the game feeling he needed to be reunited with EP ASAP, but plays like that have me warming to the idea of trading Kuzmenko.

Hehe and i thought zadorov should have attacked that..his reach he likely has it

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Yup, they've basically just sat on their hands and watched the world go by.

Imagine that team with JT Miller on it.

JT Miller, Matt Tkchuk, Timo Meier, Jack Eichel...impact F don't move often in this league, but they do move and it's insane Carolina whiffed on all of them.

Hurricanes would have been a solid landing spot for Gaudreau too.

Their two big "over the top" moves were Burns and Kotkaniemi. Brutal.

 

[MS]

JT Miller, Matt Tkchuk, Timo Meier, Jack Eichel...impact F don't move often in this league, but they do move and it's insane Carolina whiffed on all of them.

Hurricanes would have been a solid landing spot for Gaudreau too.

Their two big "over the top" moves were Burns and Kotkaniemi. Brutal.

And Kotkaniemi was just spite.

And the crazy thing is that they had a lot of draft capital and prospects that are now rotting on the vine as they don't even have an AHL team.

Even last year when things were going well for them they were 15th in the NHL offensively and one of the lowest-scoring teams to make the playoffs ... and then scored 6 goals in 4 games (all 1-goal losses) as they were swept by Florida.

Where they are now reminds me a bit of the 07-08 Canucks. We'd had a great year in 06-07 carried by Luongo but didn't score enough and it became really obvious in the playoffs that the team needed some extra guns offensively if we wanted to take the next step. And Nonis did nothing except Brad Isbister and you could just feel the energy around the team sag because they knew they weren't good enough the previous year and nothing had changed. If you're a Carolina player and you've now had all these playoff losses where you can't score goals and then the team's big acquisition is .... Michael Bunting? Not going to lead to a lot of belief.