GDT: GM#8 LA Kings vs Buffalo Sabres @12:30pm 10/20/18

[KingsFan7824]

3. Fire Stevens, and have Mike Stothers temporarily coach the team until December. Blake should then interview several coaches until December and find out what philosophies each coach is proposing. My preference is going back to possession hockey.

Is that a thing? Bring the AHL coach in for a couple games? Then just send him back down like he's an AHL call-up? That doesn't sound like how it works. I'm liking the retreat back into Sutter hockey though. I'm not sure the players will agree to it, but, maybe they're desperate enough. They seemed to be in 2011, but then they grew tired of all the winning. MKGA? I'm not sure if they'll listen.

4. Trade deadline. Move Carter, Muzzin, Pearson or Toffoli. I think trading these players will be a good start to getting rid of the stale cup squad. Bring in one or two character/grit players that are on one year contracts. I am hoping for a tank this season, so these types of players will at least give us a reason to watch the games (hits/fights etc.)

It's still tough to trade guys at the deadline with term left. If it doesn't work for the new team, they then still have to account for that contract for at least another year, if not 3 years like Carter. We see Muzzin, Toffoli, and Pearson. That means other GM's do too. None of those guys are the gritty Cup veteran either. Toffoli is completely dependent. Pearson is at best a 3rd line LW. Muzzin is awkward. He doesn't move well, especially in the d-zone. You're not at the bottom of the league because you have good trade pieces.

 

[RocketKing]

Watching the game live at staples felt just like it did in October/November 2011 there are just no answers for the team to be this bad , I know the team then was young blah blah but this team is not being outplayed they seem to not be able to execute even simple plays ...... that Punk ass skinner skating freely from behind the net right out to the crease , no tape to tape passes , a horribly deployed power play where we can’t even setup, I hate to speak badly of a player like mike Richards who struggles with an addiction but the whole top six and top four look like they are stoned like mike, they can’t handle or make simple clearing plays or passes, I know the smart people on here want to blame the last four years on this so then can prove how smart they are but this is a simple game played by great athletes and what we are seeing is not poor drafting , or failure to get the most for elite athletes when their contracts are up or results of bad trades this is way way deeper and to me it is reminiscent of 2011 when again the team seemed lost and leaderless, a change has to be made

I agree on the big point that a change HAS to be made and it has to be a core player not a Thompson scrub. That is the ONLY message Management has other than scrapping it and going rebuild that hasn't been used yet. These are NOT bad players but they are not playing with the commitment, passion, or desire other than AI. They lack the desire to win and other teams with less talent are beating them because of that. Maybe they all got new fat contracts and married or whatever but they are no longer hungry. Without a clear and totally unambiguous message that they will be traded if they dont measure up then this team is toast.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Actually I think Quick's game has deteriorated overall. When the Kings won 2 Cup '12-'14, Quick's style was unique and he was hard to beat. Now that the game is faster and more wide open in terms of scoring chances, Quick hasn't been so great. Other goalies play his style now, so teams know how to play against Quick better. From what I have seen from him lately even when he's healthy, his playing of angles has not been as good, he still relies too much on reflexes(age is catching up and the injuries are becoming a bit more frequent) and he's making too many spectacular saves. I think Quick needs to play a little more positional and stand more upright on some shots. Also, his rebound control and being ready for 2ndary/additional shots has not been as good(goes back to his positional play).

Quick was the least of the Kings’ problems last season and was their best player in the playoffs. He just won the Jennings as well for lowest GAA last season.

He’s clearly playing hurt now, and it’s hampering what he’s known for, his flexibility and athleticism.

He didn't look great in that first game of the year either. Then that Neal goal in the playoffs, he's been giving up many goals like that. Through the 5-hole from the wing. The short side goal Kane scored in the first game. That's been happening a lot over the last few years. Maybe he's playing hurt. Maybe he's aging. Maybe the kind of team the Kings are now isn't built for Quick. He's always relied on the huge crazy save. He's had to make more of those in recent years, as the team has gotten worse. Those extra couple goals add up. Instead of being tied 0-0, they're down 1-0. Instead of being up 3-2, it's tied 3-3.

NHL.com - Stats

Look how many shots the Kings are now giving up. Back to the Crawford days. Quick was always a guy that had to come up with 1 or 2 big highlight saves. Now he has to make 2 or 3. Maybe even 3 or 4.

He played great, for the most part, in 4 games against Vegas. He was also awful in the first 3 games against the Sharks in 2014. Both versions of the Kings won the Jennings. I don't think he's standing out as the problem on the team, but he could also just be in the same fog as the rest of the roster. Or, he could still be hurt. How many times have we seen players not play well, assumed they were hurt, and it turned out that nothing was wrong physically? He's obviously coming off some sort of injury, so that might support the injured argument, but he could also just be a victim of age, and/or the Kings more porous defense. More porous both systematically, and in personnel. They may have won the Jennings last year, but how many times did they give up the 1st goal? How many times were they battling back in the 3rd period? How many times did we look at Quick and say, WTF? Hardly a stout defensive team.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I agree on the big point that a change HAS to be made and it has to be a core player not a Thompson scrub. That is the ONLY message Management has other than scrapping it and going rebuild that hasn't been used yet. These are NOT bad players but they are not playing with the commitment, passion, or desire other than AI. They lack the desire to win and other teams with less talent are beating them because of that. Maybe they all got new fat contracts and married or whatever but they are no longer hungry. Without a clear and totally unambiguous message that they will be traded if they dont measure up then this team is toast.

But they already saw Gaborik get traded due to unproductive play, and they wouldn't have won the 2014 Cup without him. Someone mentioned unceremonious exits the other day with Lombardi. The players saw an unceremonious exit for Mike Richards, and what have they done since? 1-8 in the playoffs, and 0-5 at home, since Richards was finally shoved out due to unproductive play. Richards was an even larger part of the fabric of the golden years than Gaborik.

This scared straight strategy might work with 10 year olds in a prison, but these are grown men who have nothing to fear financially. One of the group gets traded. Oh no! We still get paid right? Alright, sucks that he's gone. Same with the closed door meeting yesterday. I'm sure this one will work, just like all the other ones from the last 4 years. They might have more closed door/players only meetings than total playoff games played since June 2014.

 

[Herby]

I’m just not blaming him for creating this situation, but I’ll blame him if he doesn’t fix it.

This is how I feel. Although I think by now moves should have been made and they haven't, so Blake has gained equity in whatever disaster this year proves to be.

Blake inherited a horrible situation (far worse than the one DL inherited), an aging team with at the time probably the worst farm system in the NHL. I understand giving it one more shot, but after last years horrible season he should have made huge changes this offseason and he didn't.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This is how I feel. Although I think by now moves should have been made and they haven't, so Blake has gained equity in whatever disaster this year proves to be.

Blake inherited a horrible situation (far worse than the one DL inherited), an aging team with at the time probably the worst farm system in the NHL. I understand giving it one more shot, but after last years horrible season he should have made huge changes this offseason and he didn't.

Disagree that moves should have been made by now, that would feel like a panic move, a move just to make a move.

I agree moves need to be made, just not sure 7 games into the season is the time to make them.

 

[Herby]

Disagree that moves should have been made by now, that would feel like a panic move, a move just to make a move.

I agree moves need to be made, just not sure 7 games into the season is the time to make them.

I was talking about after last season.

 

[Telos]

The bottom line is we are at the point where the move has to be made. There is no excuse for this level of play by anyone of any station within the organization. When your head coach goes the microphone after every game and pretty much makes a joke and says "I don't know" when asked what needs to happen, then you have to do something. This may not be Stevens' fault. Yeah, we were pretty decent last season up until the postseason, but the leader of the team publicly doesn't know what the f*** to do at the most crucial time of the season for this team so we need to burn the banners and draw new ones. Stevens has to go no matter what.

There is no redemption or silver lining here. Riding it out may balance us back to barely staying afloat but there is absolutely no question of where this team is right now versus what the expectation is. We are not in a rebuild. Blake and Luc both expect this team to compete for a Stanley Cup in the couple of seasons this team has left of its possible window. If you want to compete and possibly hit a home run in these next two years remaining then some radical things need to happen and some risks need to be taken. Blake took a risk with Kovalchuk and so far it is looking like a good one, but it will take a lot more to get this team to where he expects it and in a position to do something in the postseason and he needs to act like it. Don't mortgage the future, but rebuilding is for tomorrow, today is the day we try to win some shit.

I don't agree with much that Helene Elliot throws out there in regards to the Kings, but she is right this time about one point. Management overestimates this core and how far it can drag this franchise. In order to compete we are going to need the Mitchells, Williams, Stolls, and Greenes while not sacrificing our ability to handle the speed and 6-5 offensive game some of the successful teams around the league are riding, hoping, and rolling the dice on.

A big trade or move couldn't hurt, depending on obviously not overreacting, although that can never be relied upon and is a lot of the time out of our hands... Dean admitted that, while he was steady in his vision, he went to the phones and would seek that shakeup deal, but it takes two to tango and it's not easy to make something fair materialize out of nowhere especially early in the season when every other team in the league wants to hold onto what they have and ride it out and see about their postseason hopes/chances. Although we hope for one, a savior deal is not likely unless we are prepared to pay the price to get it done. However, a trigger should be pulled and a risk should be taken. Sure, you could end up with a Lucic deal, but you also might end up with a Williams one. You have to pay to play if you hope to compete and that is the direction the Kings chose for these two seasons...

TL;DR - The only option immediately available is changing the banners and purging the coaching staff; however, personnel needs to be adjusted as well even if it means we have to reasonably overpay to do it at this stage of the season.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Disagree that moves should have been made by now, that would feel like a panic move, a move just to make a move.

I agree moves need to be made, just not sure 7 games into the season is the time to make them.

I'm assuming since Stevens hasn't been fired the strategy is to have Brown back, see how the team operates then make a decision.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I'm assuming since Stevens hasn't been fired the strategy is to have Brown back, see how the team operates then make a decision.

Possibly, it could also be they don't see anyone they would rather have coaching, at the moment....though Firing Stevens and naming say Lowry interim etc, still sends the message, they would go a full season like that and then be able to interview candidates that they may like

 

[johnjm22]

I'm sort of relieved by what we're seeing from the Kings.

The worst thing that could happen is them being just mediocre enough for management to hang on to the idea of them being a contender. I don't want to be like Calgary post 03-04, or Detroit post 08-09.

Don't fire Stevens. Let the team tank. The offseason will be a better time to address the coaching situation.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Pearson+Stevens to Columbus for John Tortorella

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Don’t know about the validity of this, but if this is true, this bit of news is quite concerning. If the commitment of certain players is being called upon by others in the locker, then it’s up to the coach and management to remove that problem.

 

[yankeeking]

K17 is right , when rogie was GM the word around the league was we will never compete for a cup with a former players GM for whatever reason , and we didn’t even come close, then later we tried Taylor who was universally loved before his stint and we ended up with tambelleni and Boyle in the deepest draft ever , finally moving to a professional GM who would not have taken the job with the restrictions Taylor had and he not only delivered the ultimate thrills we had rebuilt the entire system and made us a model franchise to be proud of , we will leave out his last couple of years for argument sake, now we appear to be back in the good old boy system hopefully I am wrong and w right the ship quickly because the one thing I enjoy more than anything in all of sports or any other entertainment is watching my Kings play good or bad I am there or in front of a tv but this crap lately is not acceptable, we can’t compete with the way we are playing and that’s wrong for everyone , bad to have the kids in it, bad to play Kovi in it how long before he mails it in and we have 6 million tied up to 2021 , again something has to change

 

[Reaper45]

Don’t know about the validity of this, but if this is true, this bit of news is quite concerning. If the commitment of certain players is being called upon by others in the locker, then it’s up to the coach and management to remove that problem.

Hard to pinpoint who that could be since this team has always been so tight? A new guy maybe like Thompson or Phaneuf? Recently married Pearson? A guy who's still trying to come back from injury in Carter?

 

[KingsHockey24]

Good read, I agree with what it says. We lost the pack mentality we had back on the Championship teams. Guys like Richards, Williams, Penner, Fraser, Stoll, Mitchell, Greene, Regehr, etc were warriors out there. Always willing to drop the gloves or stand up for their teammate. Now we're just soft and emotionless.

 

[damacles1156]

Don’t know about the validity of this, but if this is true, this bit of news is quite concerning. If the commitment of certain players is being called upon by others in the locker, then it’s up to the coach and management to remove that problem.

Sutter "You can't coach emotion into a player"

I do miss players like Williams-Stoll-Greene-Mitchell, those guys were all nails.

 

[damacles1156]

Hard to pinpoint who that could be since this team has always been so tight? A new guy maybe like Thompson or Phaneuf? Recently married Pearson? A guy who's still trying to come back from injury in Carter?

Again,

A big problem is the Middle six, it's awful and costing this team. IE Pearson-Toffoli-Lewis-Carter-Kempe-

Carter-Toffoli have some production but they have looked awful doing it. Kempe has 1 goal in his last 39 games playing the heavy minutes his does play.

 

[Telos]

The bottom line is Stevens has thrown his hands in the air and has said "I don't know" while sitting in second to last place in the conference with the most horrendous goal differential by double over Arizona or Edmonton and now 10% of the season is already in the books. Regardless if there are player problems, the coach has to go. There's no excuse. Make trades if you must, but the coach has to go.

John Stevens, on what will have to happen to turn the season around:
I’ll be honest, I don’t have an answer at this second. I thought after the way we played the other night we’d have come and ripped the doors of the hinges tonight. We have great fans here, and guys love playing at home because of the support we get at home here. I don’t have an answer right now.

 

[damacles1156]

Carter-Muzzin-A-Mart-Toffoli-Pearson- Need a change of scenery. This should have started after the Kings fired their Stanley Cup winning GM/Coach.

 

[KINGS17]

Kopitar and Doughty do not have the same leadership qualities as Williams, Richards, Stoll, Greene and Mitchell. Those are five players who never gave up even when their talent faded and they always played for each other. Quick, Brown and perhaps Lewis is all that remains of players with this mentality.

Does anyone ever get the feeling that Drew Doughty is going to go out of his way to play for a teammate? Perhaps this is why no one stands up for Doughty when he gets run by Tkachuk. We know exactly what Richards would have done it that situation, even in the diminished state he was in near the end of his career. Even if it was Doughty he was standing up for in that situation.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It’s fascinating watching the leadership Justin Williams has exhibited in Carolina and how he’s been a big part in helping that team turn things around this season.

He’s a leader the Kings never replaced.

 

[damacles1156]

Kopitar and Doughty do not have the same leadership qualities as Williams, Richards, Stoll, Greene and Mitchell. Those are five players who never gave up even when their talent faded and they always played for each other. Quick, Brown and perhaps Lewis is all that remains of players with this mentality.

Does anyone ever get the feeling that Drew Doughty is going to go out of his way to play for a teammate? Perhaps this is why no one stands up for Doughty when he gets run by Tkachuk. We know exactly what Richards would have done it that situation, even in his the diminished state he was in near the end of his career. Even if it was Doughty he was standing up for in that situation.

Now that you mention that.

Go back and watch how Electrifying Drew was in the 09-10 season. That's back when Drew answered to a lot of Veteran players the Kings had and kept his mouth shut.

 

[damacles1156]

It’s fascinating watching the leadership Justin Williams has exhibited in Carolina and how he’s been a big part in helping that team turn things around this season.

He’s a leader the Kings never replaced.

Probably my favorite player grit/leadership wise. J-Dub is awesome.

 

[damacles1156]

I posted middle six production down the stretch last season. A lot of what we are complaining about started to creep into the Kings game last season down the stretch.