Not saying we need to trade him because he sucks. I am saying we need to trade him because he’s good but the timing doesn’t make sense and trading him this off season will help us get better for the long term.
Post-Game Talk: GM 47 | Oilers def. Canucks - 4-1 (Boeser)
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
- Start date
uhhh just look at the roster and how much crap we have. Yeah they are expiring soon but so is Boeser’s contract…
Miller is 28, he is going to start declining around 30, right when he hits UFA. He’s going to look for his last contract and he is not going to be worth it for majority of the contract. What’s the difference between trading him now and declaring the next couple seasons are toast? Benning already said it out loud and fans can see what is happening with the team now. You need to be f***ing Steve Jobs to convince people that a team that just finished like near the bottom, out tanking a Ottawa team that was design to tank, will be good in 2 years. Just eat some cap off his contract and trade him and you can get a prime piece back. Target the canes, Florida, Las Vegas, Colorado and Pens and see who is willing to give us their blue chippe. I am guessing the Pens and Vegas would do it since their window is like 2 years if we are being generous.
he's a passionate fiery guy. he and everyone are probably pissed at mgnmt and rightfully so.
On some of the players
Horvat - always tends off when he gets tired. He's a heavy footed skater who needs to work harder to stay in the play. Saw it last year in the playoffs - started great but after a few games started to struggle. Seeing the same thing coming off the covid episode.
Miller - looks gassed. Had few times when he pushed the play but some of the turnovers suggest mental fatigue. Good player in a bad situation.
Obviously far and away our best player was Hoglander. After a few less inspired games had the motor going in this one.
The one major observation however was the way Green is deploying his players - especially the defense. I wonder if Green has been getting some tips from Willie D. Someone should tell Green we are NOT making the playoffs. Wins at this point are unimportant so now is the time for trying younger prospects. How hard is that to understand? The last game Joulevi looked ok, not great, but ok. Let him build off that. Let him have consecutive games. And if you are going to play Rathbone, give him the full game. Instead he plays Hughes for near half a game. And that doesn't really help anyone including Hughes.
Coming out of the break, they were giving Hughes less time and he was better. He was doing less but getting more accomplished. Now with all the time he is getting he is taking on ice rests as he pulls the puck into his zone and meanders around until he decides to move it along. In the end. any semblance of team play begins to fall apart. It just becomes the Hughes show and as Hughes tires he makes more and more mistakes to the point where he becomes a liability. Meanwhile, guys like Rathbone cool on the bench and when they do get a shift are not in the flow of the play. This is brain dead coaching. Anyone who has ever coached a team sport like hockey knows this can't work in the end. And you wonder how far the Oilers can go when they are so absolutely reliant on McDavid and over play him.
Another thing I noted was the lack of response by the Canucks to the cheap elbow on Hughes. I saw no push back and you have to wonder what role MacEwen thinks he has on the team. Maybe Green should make that clear to him. Then again Green has commonly laughed off cheap shots on his players as just part of the game and , of course, you don't want to take a penalty under any circumstances (even when the game is totally out of reach).
Thought Vesey was better but again no finish.
Team is staggering to the finish line (which others long ago passed) and is a complete inditement of the present regime.
Horvat - always tends off when he gets tired. He's a heavy footed skater who needs to work harder to stay in the play. Saw it last year in the playoffs - started great but after a few games started to struggle. Seeing the same thing coming off the covid episode.
Miller - looks gassed. Had few times when he pushed the play but some of the turnovers suggest mental fatigue. Good player in a bad situation.
Obviously far and away our best player was Hoglander. After a few less inspired games had the motor going in this one.
The one major observation however was the way Green is deploying his players - especially the defense. I wonder if Green has been getting some tips from Willie D. Someone should tell Green we are NOT making the playoffs. Wins at this point are unimportant so now is the time for trying younger prospects. How hard is that to understand? The last game Joulevi looked ok, not great, but ok. Let him build off that. Let him have consecutive games. And if you are going to play Rathbone, give him the full game. Instead he plays Hughes for near half a game. And that doesn't really help anyone including Hughes.
Coming out of the break, they were giving Hughes less time and he was better. He was doing less but getting more accomplished. Now with all the time he is getting he is taking on ice rests as he pulls the puck into his zone and meanders around until he decides to move it along. In the end. any semblance of team play begins to fall apart. It just becomes the Hughes show and as Hughes tires he makes more and more mistakes to the point where he becomes a liability. Meanwhile, guys like Rathbone cool on the bench and when they do get a shift are not in the flow of the play. This is brain dead coaching. Anyone who has ever coached a team sport like hockey knows this can't work in the end. And you wonder how far the Oilers can go when they are so absolutely reliant on McDavid and over play him.
Another thing I noted was the lack of response by the Canucks to the cheap elbow on Hughes. I saw no push back and you have to wonder what role MacEwen thinks he has on the team. Maybe Green should make that clear to him. Then again Green has commonly laughed off cheap shots on his players as just part of the game and , of course, you don't want to take a penalty under any circumstances (even when the game is totally out of reach).
Thought Vesey was better but again no finish.
Team is staggering to the finish line (which others long ago passed) and is a complete inditement of the present regime.
604
Registered User
- Nov 1, 2011
- 7,343
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Newhook + 2023 1st or similar is what I'd want for Miller.
HelloCookie
Registered User
Given how Tanev and Stecher were shown the door, would you risk trading someone like Horvat or Miller for futures and expect that not effecting how Canucks is viewed by RFA/UFA players?
Treating players as humans and contracts as assets should not be overlooked (or overvalued either)
Treating players as humans and contracts as assets should not be overlooked (or overvalued either)
Breakers
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I didn't not see this coming from a rookie
For the sheer amount of players on this roster not having great years, especially 5v5
this is pretty crazy. He looks like the player chosen in the first round of his draft.
He also just moved into 2nd on the roster in wins above replacement and goals above replacement.
For the sheer amount of players on this roster not having great years, especially 5v5
this is pretty crazy. He looks like the player chosen in the first round of his draft.
He also just moved into 2nd on the roster in wins above replacement and goals above replacement.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
HelloCookie
Registered User
I don't remember entirely the timeline of this, but wasn't this just bad management of not wanting to re-sign and not being willing to trade him because Canucks weren't retooling back then?Hamhuis.
Toffoli and Tanev are still great players, have made us pay all year. They're 29 and 31..
But yea, lets trade JT and Bo.. Heck may as well move Boeser too. Team should be hitting its stride by Petey's 30th Bday.
But yea, lets trade JT and Bo.. Heck may as well move Boeser too. Team should be hitting its stride by Petey's 30th Bday.
Peen
Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
- Oct 6, 2013
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Strawman.
Toffoli and Tanev signed four year deals until they were 32 and 34 respectively.
What are the odds JT Miller takes a 4 year deal or less?
Peen
Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
- Oct 6, 2013
- 30,378
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I'm guessing behind Pettersson? I think he's been the second best forward 5 on 5 for us this season from eye test. I've found the underlying numbers to be exactly the same as my eye test this season.
This has been the problem with the PP all year. Boeser is rarely put in a position to shoot, Petey has refused to shoot all season, Miller often hesitates. No one on the PP wants to shoot, after 2 or 3 returned passes Hughes just says **** it. Being the lone guy back, every PKer is in position to block the point. Doesn't help that this whole team is terrible at deflections and screens.
Schmidt has a great 1 timer, but hasn't got a look even with EP out.
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Billy Kvcmu
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VanillaCoke
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- Oct 30, 2013
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lawrence
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- May 19, 2012
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I love Hughes but this is so true. WTF 26 minutes? Rathbone at 12? Rathbone is probably doubting his own game right now and he thinks he screwed up somewhere because he was "benched" in his mind, unless someone tells him, it's not him and it's just the Pejorative Slured coaches. Kids a rookie.
ProstheticConscience
Check dein Limit
Not even much point in doing recaps now. Entire organization is in "I just can't even...!" mode from Aqualini down to the internet forums.
--Feel bad for Miller. Every mistake he made wound up in the back of the net. He's been carrying the team on his shoulders and tonight he badly slipped. But it's a symptom of the greater problem. Too few genuinely good players are asked to do too much and are faltering because they're only human.
--Which of course brings us to Hughes. Let's play him 60 minutes a game! Oh wait he's dead.
--Hoglander should be one of the overplayed players...but obviously he's not.
--Would have liked to see a lot more of Rathbone. Looked really good the few times he was out there...being paired with Myers. Basically two rovers on one pairing...yeah, that'll work.
--In what world is it a good strategy to run your few good players into the ground in pursuit of a pointless win? Denial runs very strongly with this team. You're killing your vets, not giving the young guys a chance to show what they've got and *still* losing. Green is clearly as checked out as we are. He knows he's out the door and he's all out of shits to give. Willie D and 1-2-3-4 would literally be an improvement over what happened tonight.
--Lind hasn't really elevated himself above the rest of the dreck on the bottom six, but whatever.
--Whole bunch of nothing on the roster right now, but at least it's a cheap nothing. Just wait until next season when the team gets the same results rolling out the gate with Beagle, Roussel, Eriksson, etc sucking up more cap space than Liberia's national debt.
Clearly a toxic situation and everyone's just going through the motions until the end comes and they can all head home. Game had all the intensity of a preseason scrimmage. Edmonton can now run their taxi squad and beat the Canucks with the two stars getting four points between them while barely breaking a sweat. How much lower can we go? The bar is now subterranean.
--Feel bad for Miller. Every mistake he made wound up in the back of the net. He's been carrying the team on his shoulders and tonight he badly slipped. But it's a symptom of the greater problem. Too few genuinely good players are asked to do too much and are faltering because they're only human.
--Which of course brings us to Hughes. Let's play him 60 minutes a game! Oh wait he's dead.
--Hoglander should be one of the overplayed players...but obviously he's not.
--Would have liked to see a lot more of Rathbone. Looked really good the few times he was out there...being paired with Myers. Basically two rovers on one pairing...yeah, that'll work.
--In what world is it a good strategy to run your few good players into the ground in pursuit of a pointless win? Denial runs very strongly with this team. You're killing your vets, not giving the young guys a chance to show what they've got and *still* losing. Green is clearly as checked out as we are. He knows he's out the door and he's all out of shits to give. Willie D and 1-2-3-4 would literally be an improvement over what happened tonight.
--Lind hasn't really elevated himself above the rest of the dreck on the bottom six, but whatever.
--Whole bunch of nothing on the roster right now, but at least it's a cheap nothing. Just wait until next season when the team gets the same results rolling out the gate with Beagle, Roussel, Eriksson, etc sucking up more cap space than Liberia's national debt.
Clearly a toxic situation and everyone's just going through the motions until the end comes and they can all head home. Game had all the intensity of a preseason scrimmage. Edmonton can now run their taxi squad and beat the Canucks with the two stars getting four points between them while barely breaking a sweat. How much lower can we go? The bar is now subterranean.
Tim Calhoun
#11
- May 31, 2006
- 10,457
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People are pointing at Miller because when he’s lacking concentration he is downright awful. Like the start of the year a d last night. He should be called out some.
that doesn’t mean he’s not a good player but you don’t want your veterans behaving the way he does. It will rub everyone the wrong way as it has in the past.
Best trade value wise for Benning might be true...it’s also true the timing of that type of trade was completely wrong then and it remains so today.
that doesn’t mean he’s not a good player but you don’t want your veterans behaving the way he does. It will rub everyone the wrong way as it has in the past.
Best trade value wise for Benning might be true...it’s also true the timing of that type of trade was completely wrong then and it remains so today.
Toffoli signed for 4x4 at 28 years old. Miller is going to be looking for 6M+ with the longest possible term. Hell if you were Miller, you would want the biggest contract since it’s going to be the last one.
Yea but just because he might decline does not mean he wont be good. Yes he may seek a large/long contract but I would make the decision then... not now. I'd consider him a keeper. Plus at that point maybe he takes a discount to stay if the team is competitive.
lol he is not going to take a discount, not after we wasted his prime years away. The issue is not him being not good, the issue is going to be the timing. Just look at the roster and do the math. Say we suck for 2 more years, if not 3, the cost of needing to re-up Miller, Horvat, Boeser, Hoglander, Pod is going to kill all the cap we have. With Petey and Hughes eating up the majority of the cap, any cap inefficiency is going to prevent us from getting better. Miller is the prime candidate for cap inefficiency. 30year old player asking for term and money. He is going to be a luxury piece and we probably aren’t even at the point where we can afford luxury pieces. Nevermind the fact that keeping him for the next 2 years will prevent us from getting a better pick and selling him early might net us picks and a really good young player that will start to be good in 2 years.
My point is that if the team can hire a competent GM I think a playoff team can be iced within 2 seasons. Even for next season with some luck and the right moves. Holtby will be gone whether Seattle takes him or there is a buyout and I think there is also a chance the Erikkson contract is mutually terminated after July 1st. The 2mil in salary he would make next year is easily attainable playing a year in Europe/Sweden (at home for him). He clearly has never given a f*** about being here. Correct UFA signings and a real coach and these guys make the playoffs next season IMO. Of course we wont see a real coach though, and im sure Benning will be around to further f*** things up.
Sorry but Eriksson is not going to mutually terminate his deal, he is going to collect his bonus and sit and enjoy life for the rest of the season. Also not sure if terminating a contract after the bonus is issue would actually take the bonus off the cap, I assume no because that would be such an obvious loop hole.
Mae have too many holes to fill for this team to be good in the next 2 years. The only way to do it is to sacrifice the f*** out of our future and that’s just stupid and will f*** us even more. Bascially you are just grasping on to the fantasy that somehow we will be good in the next 2 years when the reality is our cap is so f***ed that we barely have enough money to fill out a roster even if we bring in a bunch of min wage guys.
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