Pre-Game Talk: GM 38 | Vancouver Canucks vs TBD - Return Postponed

[Bojack Horvatman]

We shouldn't play any more games this season.. I honestly can't believe there are fans that want to risk our players and family safety because they are bored without hockey

I have no problems with the team playing games if we can ice a healthy team, and the schedule isn't rediculous. As long as the players are willing to play. The problem is the NHL want the Canucks both to play all their remaining games, and have them finish by a certain date. Playing all the games in a reasonable schedule even if it means delaying the North playoffs, or having the Canucks not play all the games if the NHL don't want the delay is fine. If the NHL is adamant on finishing on time the Canucks shouldn't play.

 

[Canuckle1970]

Relieved to hear that Friday's game has been postponed.

 

[m9]

Uh I watch sports in other leagues worldwide that have had covid issues. They came back to play.

I find the white towel waving thing such a Canucks thing.

I'm with you, it's so weird. I can't stand it.

I'm all for players being safe, but I'm also for businesses finding solutions to deal with problems instead of shutting everything down when something goes wrong.

I'm sure the NHL & NHLPA aren't happy with the Canucks as an organization right now and while their sympathies lie with the players they are also perfectly aware that the pathetic job by the Canucks put them in this position.

 

[David71]

Gotta love Miller for standing up for the players.

This also makes me think he gets “punished” and traded in the offseason.

why would he get traded? thats outrageous. he's speaking the truth and he cares for his teammates and families.

 

[m9]

I have no problems with the team playing games if we can ice a healthy team, and the schedule isn't rediculous. As long as the players are willing to play. The problem is the NHL want the Canucks both to play all their remaining games, and have them finish by a certain date. Playing all the games in a reasonable schedule even if it means delaying the North playoffs, or having the Canucks not play all the games if the NHL don't want the delay is fine. If the NHL is adamant on finishing on time the Canucks shouldn't play.

I agree with most of this, and the team also had access to a full taxi squad and many of their players all over North America. They also could have brought in extra, healthy bodies through waivers or trades within the last 1-2 weeks and instead sent out as many as they brought in.

The "reasonable schedule" part is fair as well. Starting with a back-to-back seemed like a misstep by the league.

 

[Blue and Green]

Glad to see the players standing up to this nonsense. The league is being ridiculous in this case; they accepted "points percentage" last season; no reason why they can't do it again this season and I'm sure anything relating to fewer games played as it might apply to Group 6 free agency, etc., could be worked out with the NHLPA. Expecting the Canucks to start playing tomorrow, 19 games in 31 days straight out of a serious Covid breakout is farcical.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Relieved to hear that Friday's game has been postponed.

Good on JT Miller...good leadership.

 

[F A N]

Uh I watch sports in other leagues worldwide that have had covid issues. They came back to play.

I find the white towel waving thing such a Canucks thing.

Do you have a comparable example to what the Canucks went through?

 

[Ginger Papa]

As much as I miss Canucks hockey and hanging out with you folks, I’m glad they canceled this Game as well.

A Joke a Gif and a Meme until a GDT

A Touching Elephant Story

In 1986, Mkele Mbembe was on holiday in Kenya after graduating from Northwestern University. On a hike through the bush, he came across a young bull elephant standing with one leg raised in the air. The elephant seemed distressed, so Mbembe approached it very carefully. He got down on one knee and inspected the elephant's foot and found a large piece of wood deeply embedded in it. As carefully and as gently as he could, Mbembe worked the wood out with his hunting knife, after which the elephant gingerly put down its foot. The elephant turned to face the man, and with a rather curious look on its face, stared at him for several tense moments. Mbembe stood frozen, thinking of nothing else but being trampled. Eventually the elephant trumpeted loudly, turned, and walked away. Mbembe never forgot that elephant or the events of that day.

Twenty years later, Mbembe was walking through the Chicago Zoo with his teenaged son. As they approached the elephant enclosure, one of the creatures turned and walked over to near where Mbembe and his son Tapu were standing. The large bull elephant stared at Mbembe, lifted its front foot off the ground, then put it down. The elephant did that several times then trumpeted loudly, all the while staring at the man. Remembering the encounter in 1986, Mbembe couldn't help wondering if this was the same elephant. Mbembe summoned up his courage, climbed over the railing and made his way into the enclosure. He walked right up to the elephant and stared back in wonder. The elephant trumpeted again, wrapped its trunk around one of Mbembe's legs and slammed him against the railing, killing him instantly.

Probably wasn't the same elephant.

 

[4Twenty]

I'm with you, it's so weird. I can't stand it.

I'm all for players being safe, but I'm also for businesses finding solutions to deal with problems instead of shutting everything down when something goes wrong.

I'm sure the NHL & NHLPA aren't happy with the Canucks as an organization right now and while their sympathies lie with the players they are also perfectly aware that the pathetic job by the Canucks put them in this position.

I can't believe how many white towel wavers there are. I can't stand it either.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

why would he get traded? thats outrageous. he's speaking the truth and he cares for his teammates and families.

Because the way this team is run is outrageous.

 

[m9]

Do you have a comparable example to what the Canucks went through?

I don't know if the NFL teams that went though it are direct comparables, but a few teams were put in pretty bad situations.

The Tennessee Titans had 24 players get Covid, though the outbreak was stretched out a bit longer and of course they would have more players on the team. It did cause major disruptions to the schedule. I would have to look back but they would have went through extremely long periods with little to no practice time, similar to the Canucks.

The Denver Broncos found out the day before their game that one of their QBs tested positive and all of their other QBs were close contacts so they had no QBs and had to put a WR in at QB. I don't know what you would compare it to on the Canucks, maybe if their entire defense core was out due to Covid. Awful and a no-win situation, essentially forfeit the game which is pretty key in a 16 game season.

I don't think either situation is as bad as the Canucks but they weren't great either.

Point is, I don't think the Canucks situation is particularly unique other than they had more players get it and for whatever reason didn't call anyone up from the minors despite having enough time to do so.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I'm with you, it's so weird. I can't stand it.

I'm all for players being safe, but I'm also for businesses finding solutions to deal with problems instead of shutting everything down when something goes wrong.

I'm sure the NHL & NHLPA aren't happy with the Canucks as an organization right now and while their sympathies lie with the players they are also perfectly aware that the pathetic job by the Canucks put them in this position.

Realistically the league should have had at least two week-long breaks late in each team's schedule for emergencies as well as a clear plan for an extra week or two at the end of the season if needed. The business that is the NHL should have planned for at least one team getting absolutely owned by COVID based on what had happened in other leagues. This cluster is as much on the optimistic schedule as it is about anything the team is able to do.

EDIT: Let me also repeat my question of what should happen if a team from this point forward suffers as bad or worse an outbreak? If a team a week from now is forced to miss 3 weeks' of play what is the league's plan for that and why can't that same plan be used for the Canucks?

 

[F A N]

I don't know if the NFL teams that went though it are direct comparables, but a few teams were put in pretty bad situations.

The Tennessee Titans had 24 players get Covid, though the outbreak was stretched out a bit longer and of course they would have more players on the team. It did cause major disruptions to the schedule. I would have to look back but they would have went through extremely long periods with little to no practice time, similar to the Canucks.

The Denver Broncos found out the day before their game that one of their QBs tested positive and all of their other QBs were close contacts so they had no QBs and had to put a WR in at QB. I don't know what you would compare it to on the Canucks, maybe if their entire defense core was out due to Covid. Awful and a no-win situation, essentially forfeit the game which is pretty key in a 16 game season.

I don't think either situation is as bad as the Canucks but they weren't great either.

Point is, I don't think the Canucks situation is particularly unique other than they had more players get it and for whatever reason didn't call anyone up from the minors despite having enough time to do so.

Just read up a bit about the Titans. So basically many players were congregating without masks and violating the team's COVID protocol. How many games did they have to reschedule?

As for the Canucks calling players up, what procedure do they have to follow when a player lands on the COVID protocol list as opposed to being injured? Can you call up someone as soon as that player lands on the COVID protocol list?

 

[VanillaCoke]

Uh I watch sports in other leagues worldwide that have had covid issues. They came back to play.

I find the white towel waving thing such a Canucks thing.

I'm beginning to agree, I get the player safety thing and the need to be safe and responsible for them, the other players and their families.

I don't get the cancel the season, shut it down angle. Makes no sense and is kinda pathetic.

Elliott Friedman was saying the other day Minnesota had to play after 11 days iirc and with 6+ ahlers.
Starting the canucks on a b2b Edmonton Toronto is obviously incredibly stupid and dangerous.
Starting on Saturday and then monday, extra day off extra practice, sounds more than reasonable. If they have to have to have 18 skaters or whatever so be it. Other teams have had to do the same thing already.

Assuming enough players pass medicals, no more woe is us and gotta play some games, its a business.

 

[Tables of Stats]

 

[m9]

Just read up a bit about the Titans. So basically many players were congregating without masks and violating the team's COVID protocol. How many games did they have to reschedule?

As for the Canucks calling players up, what procedure do they have to follow when a player lands on the COVID protocol list as opposed to being injured? Can you call up someone as soon as that player lands on the COVID protocol list?

I think it was 3 games of the Titans that got moved. The first game got cancelled and moved to a later week and the second game got delayed by a couple of days. The third game (and maybe a fourth?) were moved to allow some of the other movement to occur. So around 20% of their schedule was disrupted. The NFL also had no problems with guys getting Covid and coming back to play really quickly.

For the Canucks, I believe how it has been described is that they can call up a replacement player for every guy on the Covid list as long as their salary is under $1 million bucks and it would be fine. They did that with a couple of players who were already in Canada like Silovs and Brisebois, but why they didn't do it for a couple of Utica players sometime last week is beyond me.

 

[Tables of Stats]

I think it was 3 games of the Titans that got moved. The first game got cancelled and moved to a later week and the second game got delayed by a couple of days. The third game (and maybe a fourth?) were moved to allow some of the other movement to occur. So around 20% of their schedule was disrupted. The NFL also had no problems with guys getting Covid and coming back to play really quickly.

1) The Titans didn't catch the version that the Canucks have.
2) Football isn't nearly as cardio-heavy as hockey.
3) NFL teams have entire practice rosters they can use and it doesn't take 7 days and hurt your farm team's schedule to move players between them.

This is a very different situation than the one the Titans faced.

 

[Slapshot_11]

Uh I watch sports in other leagues worldwide that have had covid issues. They came back to play.

I find the white towel waving thing such a Canucks thing.

I don't give a shit what other teams have done, our own player just came out saying they are not ready and what the nhl was trying to do is unsafe

Nevermind that the canucks got a different strain that is more severe for younger players and the fact that many players from other teams and leagues are still struggling with stuff well after recovering from covid.. i dont give a rats ass

This season is over, we aren't making the playoffs so why are we rushing back to play? Because fatasses sitting on their couches want them to?

If the NHL can give us actual time to recover and make the schedule so we aren't playing b2b every other day then sure come back and play, but the NHL wont do that so f*** it

 

[VanJack]

Sportsnet is reporting that the NHL is now making noises about 'some teams' not being forced to play all 56-games. I'm sure some of their owners are cheering from the sidelines, because they're losing their shirt on every game that gets played.

I think if the Canucks come out of the gate slowly and are basically finished as a playoff team at the 8-10 game mark, I could see the NHL letting them shut it down for the season.

The only thing they'd have to figure out would be 'draft seeding', but they could just as easily convert the formula to 'winning percentages' like they did for the playoff bubble last season.

 

[4Twenty]

I don't give a shit what other teams have done, our own player just came out saying they are not ready and what the nhl was trying to do is unsafe

Nevermind that the canucks got a different strain that is more severe for younger players and the fact that many players from other teams and leagues are still struggling with stuff well after recovering from covid.. i dont give a rats ass

This season is over, we aren't making the playoffs so why are we rushing back to play? Because fatasses sitting on their couches want them to?

If the NHL can give us actual time to recover and make the schedule so we aren't playing b2b every other day then sure come back and play, but the NHL wont do that so f*** it

It’s not an unprecedented schedule. This is why they have taxi squads and farm teams.

 

[tmg]

I'm sure some of their owners are cheering from the sidelines, because they're losing their shirt on every game that gets played

The players won’t offer a rebate and escrow is already maxed out. Most of the shirt the owners lose is player salaries, and they’re losing that whether the games get played or not.

 

[m9]

1) The Titans didn't catch the version that the Canucks have.
2) Football isn't nearly as cardio-heavy as hockey.
3) NFL teams have entire practice rosters they can use and it doesn't take 7 days and hurt your farm team's schedule to move players between them.

This is a very different situation than the one the Titans faced.

As I said in the previous post, I don't think the Titans is as bad as the Canucks but I do think it's a comparable.

1) We don't know a ton about the variant yet, but for sure this is in play here.

2) I've played both sports pretty extensively and I would disagree. I do think you use your cardio differently in both sports but I would say they are pretty similar in terms of exertion.

3) The NFL (this might have been slightly adjusted last year) generally has 46 gameday players, 7 additional "scratches", and then 10 practice squad players. In the NHL you have 20 gameday players, 3 extras, 6 man practice squad, and then all of their affiliated players available to be called up. I just don't buy the excuse that it's tougher to fill the NHL squad when you look at the numbers, it doesn't add up to me. The Canucks have not used any resources in the last two weeks (waivers, trading for additional players, Utica callups) and now they don't have enough healthy players.

I just think management has been caught off-guard with how their players are reacting to Covid and they've put themselves in a bad situation. We'll see if the NHL agrees because if the Canucks get fined or lose draft picks at some point the mistakes they've made along the way will be brought up. And yes, the Canucks not calling up players so they don't have enough guys to play scheduled games might be a really big mistake.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Lets make Jimbo strap on the skates and play for the Nucks the rest of the season for shits and gigs.

Its not like he can do his usual this time of year and creep on junior players.

 

[Tables of Stats]

2) I've played both sports pretty extensively and I would disagree. I do think you use your cardio differently in both sports but I would say they are pretty similar in terms of exertion.

NFL cardio is more about your ability to stay fresh for multiple downs. NFL players don't play 45-second downs very often and get rests between bouts of exertion, it's still rough and requires excellent cardio but the game isn't played at the all-out sprint that an NHL shift requires.

3) The NFL (this might have been slightly adjusted last year) generally has 46 gameday players, 7 additional "scratches", and then 10 practice squad players.

On paper this is true, but teams are also frequently cutting players from and adding players to their practice squads throughout the season so in practice they have a larger pool of players to draw from. Also unlike the NHL they can sign a player for a game and cut them right away afterward without impacting any farm system or the teams overall roster and salary structure.

NFL teams have vastly more roster flexibility in a season than the NHL as well as having a larger pool of skilled players to act as replacements. There is no comparing the two when it comes to the ease of getting a reasonably decent team onto the field.

You also still haven't answered my question about what the league should do if another outbreak happens a week from now as bad as what just hit the Canucks and why whatever the plan for that is can't work for the Canucks.