Post-Game Talk: [GM 3] Vancouver Canucks @ Washington Capitals | 4 - 6 Loss (Pettersson, Horvat, Lazar, Miller)

[Vector]

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

That's probably a wrap on Poolman's career. Shitty.

 

[Ruthervin]

He should never have been made captain at such a young age when he still had so much developing to do as a player. All it's done is made him a lightning rod for criticism.

Agreed. I think often times, it just depends on the player. For example, I don't think anyone would argue with young guys like McDavid or MacKinnon being given the C because they're clearly one of the best players in the game and they can lead by example. Some guys also have the natural personality for it (i.e. Linden). I think one massive failure of the Benning regime, is that they often did things for PR as you say (i.e. attempting to gift Virtanen and McCann roster spots at the start of 15-16, and then announcing BoHo as captain a few years later).

I feel bad for Bo right now as I think a part of him feels hurt (i.e. Alvin-Rutherford prioritizing the Miller signing, stating that Miller was the leader of this time last season, and now not having Bo signed before the season). I'm starting to wonder if Bo not being clear about his future has affected his start to the season.

p.s.____________I'm going to start a Horvat for O'Reilly proposal on the T&R board. Wish me luck. :-p

 

[RobertKron]

Agreed. I think often times, it just depends on the player. For example, I don't think anyone would argue with young guys like McDavid or MacKinnon being given the C because they're clearly one of the best players in the game and they can lead by example. Some guys also have the natural personality for it (i.e. Linden). I think one massive failure of the Benning regime, is that they often did things for PR as you say (i.e. attempting to gift Virtanen and McCann roster spots at the start of 15-16, and then announcing BoHo as captain a few years later).

I feel bad for Bo right now as I think a part of him feels hurt (i.e. Alvin-Rutherford prioritizing the Miller signing, stating that Miller was the leader of this time last season, and now not having Bo signed before the season). I'm starting to wonder if Bo not being clear about his future has affected his start to the season.

p.s.____________I'm going to start a Horvat for O'Reilly proposal on the T&R board. Wish me luck. :-p

Honestly, I could be pretty convinced by an argument that Linden having the C at such a young age was a contributing factor to him carrying the world on his shoulders, refusing to come out of the lineup when he was injured, and probably had a solid hand in the wheels coming off of his game by the time he was like 27.

As for Horvat, having the C so early through an absolute clown show era certainly didn't help him, but also the org being convinced that he was going to be a tough-minutes matchup centre no matter what certainly did him no favours. If you're so opposed to the guy being an offensive C, then just convert him into a goal scoring power winger for f*** sakes rather than borderline publicly criticizing him for scoring points.

 

[Cancuks]

Management clearly wants to change the culture of the team and that starts with trading the captain. I think the decision was made when they re-signed Miller. I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing a stealth tank this year so they can trade Horvat without too much blowback from the fans and also be in on the Bedard sweepstakes. Everyone knew the defense was awful and management did nothing to improve it.

 

[Ruthervin]

Honestly, I could be pretty convinced by an argument that Linden having the C at such a young age was a contributing factor to him carrying the world on his shoulders, refusing to come out of the lineup when he was injured, and probably had a solid hand in the wheels coming off of his game by the time he was like 27.

As for Horvat, having the C so early through an absolute clown show era certainly didn't help him, but also the org being convinced that he was going to be a tough-minutes matchup centre no matter what certainly did him no favours. If you're so opposed to the guy being an offensive C, then just convert him into a goal scoring power winger for f*** sakes rather than borderline publicly criticizing him for scoring points.

Great post, you nailed it. That's also one of my biggest regrets with how this organization handled Horvat. He was miscast right from Day 1. The organization had him pegged as a 'Linden/Kesler' TWF type player when in reality, he was more of a Jeff Carter/Jason Arnott type guy (PWF C). That, combined with the fact that Horvat always had to play with crap like Eriksson (I won't label Pearson as 'crap' but still), just really helps Horvat back imo. It's really too bad because the two times that we actually made the playoffs (15' and 20'), we saw a real player in Horvat. We saw a guy who clearly elevated his game when it mattered most.

So although Horvat's agent is completely out to lunch with a lot of his comments, I can also see where he's coming from with a lot of what he's been saying.

Horvat clearly has some limitations in his game but he's never really been used in a way that maximizes his strengths and that's a damn shame.

 

[rypper]

Jack Rathbone will save the season.

 

[Ruthervin]

Management clearly wants to change the culture of the team and that starts with trading the captain. I think the decision was made when they re-signed Miller. I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing a stealth tank this year so they can trade Horvat without too much blowback from the fans and also be in on the Bedard sweepstakes. Everyone knew the defense was awful and management did nothing to improve it.

I see what you're saying but management will do whatever in their power to avoid a stealth tank. They've invest too much and they're in too deep. I agree that they could trade Bo but 'blowing it up' will be an absolute last code red option.

 

[Shareefruck]

Some people are so obsessed with what order the top three lines are Iisted like it matters at all

How does the order even get determined in twitter posts like that? Isn't it just completely random? I doubt the coaches announce which one is the first, second, and third line, even in a practice setting, right?-- I assume Sports journalists just write down the line combos they see in the order that they see them.

 

[Shareefruck]

Honestly, I could be pretty convinced by an argument that Linden having the C at such a young age was a contributing factor to him carrying the world on his shoulders, refusing to come out of the lineup when he was injured, and probably had a solid hand in the wheels coming off of his game by the time he was like 27.

As for Horvat, having the C so early through an absolute clown show era certainly didn't help him, but also the org being convinced that he was going to be a tough-minutes matchup centre no matter what certainly did him no favours. If you're so opposed to the guy being an offensive C, then just convert him into a goal scoring power winger for f*** sakes rather than borderline publicly criticizing him for scoring points.

I still have PTSD from the stupidity of Willie D playing Horvat on the 4th line after he first exploded offensively, explaining that the reason was because they see him as more of a checker than a scorer, and that he only reluctantly scored that much, outside of his nature, because he's a good kid and the team had no other options.

As if that's something that all checkers can just turn on a switch and do if they wanted to, but choose not to because of their role.

 

[MS]

I still have PTSD from the stupidity of Willie D playing Horvat on the 4th line after he first exploded offensively, explaining that the reason was because they see him as more of a checker than a scorer, and that he only reluctantly scored that much, outside of his nature, because the team had no other options.

That said, that Linden example sounds like a positive to me. His offense dried up early, but those years where he pushed himself were glorious.

The above remains the most mindbogglingly stupid quote made by anyone in the history of the NHL.

 

[Shareefruck]

The above remains the most mindbogglingly stupid quote made by anyone in the history of the NHL.

The stupidity of that quote alone is the reason why I will never accept the idea that Green was ever on the same level of bad. The bar was just that low. It's like.... "Okay, he was terrible, doesn't have great coaching ability, and lost a ton of games, sure, but at least he comes across like a functioning human being."

 

[MS]

Agreed. I think often times, it just depends on the player. For example, I don't think anyone would argue with young guys like McDavid or MacKinnon being given the C because they're clearly one of the best players in the game and they can lead by example. Some guys also have the natural personality for it (i.e. Linden). I think one massive failure of the Benning regime, is that they often did things for PR as you say (i.e. attempting to gift Virtanen and McCann roster spots at the start of 15-16, and then announcing BoHo as captain a few years later).

I feel bad for Bo right now as I think a part of him feels hurt (i.e. Alvin-Rutherford prioritizing the Miller signing, stating that Miller was the leader of this time last season, and now not having Bo signed before the season). I'm starting to wonder if Bo not being clear about his future has affected his start to the season.

p.s.____________I'm going to start a Horvat for O'Reilly proposal on the T&R board. Wish me luck. :-p

For sure, there are certain times where it works. But it's mostly a totally unimportant thing that fans seize on as being REALLY SUPER IMPORTANT.

Horvat as captain was a pure PR thing to play to the fans and generate a nice story at a time when everything was bad.

It wasn't necessary for the team. It wasn't in the best interest of the player. All it's done is help to turn the fanbase against the player and view him in a completely different light than if he was scoring 30 goals while just being part of the leadership team and one of 4 guys wearing As.

 

[Hit the post]

Keep an eye on the puke Tom Wilson (hopefully guys like Hughes & EP keep their heads up at all times).

 

[MS]

Honestly, I could be pretty convinced by an argument that Linden having the C at such a young age was a contributing factor to him carrying the world on his shoulders, refusing to come out of the lineup when he was injured, and probably had a solid hand in the wheels coming off of his game by the time he was like 27.

As for Horvat, having the C so early through an absolute clown show era certainly didn't help him, but also the org being convinced that he was going to be a tough-minutes matchup centre no matter what certainly did him no favours. If you're so opposed to the guy being an offensive C, then just convert him into a goal scoring power winger for f*** sakes rather than borderline publicly criticizing him for scoring points.

When you consider how the team handled him, it's actually probably a miracle Horvat turned out as well as he did.

As for the captaincy, yeah. It's basically been a millstone around whoever had it for the entirety of the last 25 years except for Henrik. We went from it absolutely wearing out Linden to the Messier disaster to a weak captain looking miserable in Naslund to the bizarre Luongo situation to yay Henrik! to Horvat getting endless shit.

Just stop having a captain. It isn't important. Give 4 guys As and take away something that has the potential to be a media/fan firestorm that negatively impacts a top player.

 

[Shareefruck]

I'm not advocating this or think it would work or be a good idea, but sometimes as a thought experiment, I wonder how this team would look if Pettersson were groomed to be the dedicated shutdown 3C and Horvat were treated/played like the sheltered offensive dynamo 2C behind Miller, the defacto 1C. It's a complete waste of Pettersson's upside, sure, but interesting nonetheless, IMO-- everyone weirdly gets put in a role that I think they can consistently handle/be well above average at.

 

[Lindgren]

I'm not advocating this or think it would work or be a good idea, but sometimes as a thought experiment, I wonder how this team would look if Pettersson were groomed to be the dedicated shutdown 3C and Horvat were treated/played like the sheltered offensive dynamo 2C behind Miller, the defacto 1C. It's a complete waste of Pettersson's upside, sure, but interesting nonetheless, IMO-- everyone weirdly gets put in a role that I think they can consistently handle/be well above average at.

This reminds me of the old joke that Roger Nielson would have turned Gretzky into a checker.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Agreed. I think often times, it just depends on the player. For example, I don't think anyone would argue with young guys like McDavid or MacKinnon being given the C because they're clearly one of the best players in the game and they can lead by example. Some guys also have the natural personality for it (i.e. Linden). I think one massive failure of the Benning regime, is that they often did things for PR as you say (i.e. attempting to gift Virtanen and McCann roster spots at the start of 15-16, and then announcing BoHo as captain a few years later).

I feel bad for Bo right now as I think a part of him feels hurt (i.e. Alvin-Rutherford prioritizing the Miller signing, stating that Miller was the leader of this time last season, and now not having Bo signed before the season). I'm starting to wonder if Bo not being clear about his future has affected his start to the season.

p.s.____________I'm going to start a Horvat for O'Reilly proposal on the T&R board. Wish me luck. :-p

Why should that affect his performance on the ice, for the captain and the "leader" of the team no less. Extension or not, his job as a NHL player is to perform at his best no matter what, especially if you are counted on to lead your peers. I feel bad for Bo at times during his era in Vancouver but this extension thing is no excuse.

I hope the team gives it a full 60mins effort tomorrow, Washington is beatable and we need the 2 points. As we see the last 2 seasons, a bad "first couple games" has a way to snowball into long losing streak and basically taking yourself out of the playoff race by November.

 

[rypper]

Keep an eye on the puke Tom Wilson (hopefully guys like Hughes & EP keep their heads up at all times).

Wilson will be watching from the press box, so that's one less thing to worry about.

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

Easy W. Caps are an old team clinging on to relevance. Maybe horvat can put up a big game to tempt em to trade us some of their young guys for him.

 

[Diogenes92]

Hot take: Myers is missed

That in itself should tell you how dire things are on the blueline.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

I have a feeling we get goalied or refereed on this game and the whole failure of a trip is framed around that. Or we come out, shit the bed and make a feeble comeback and count it as a morale victory.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Easy W. Caps are an old team clinging on to relevance. Maybe horvat can put up a big game to tempt em to trade us some of their young guys for him.

Might want to lay off the Sauce

 

[kanucks25]

Hot take: Myers is missed

I don't see how this can be a hot take, however it doesn't mean that Myers is a great player either.

Myers is a 4/5, everyone else we have is a 6/7 and one of them just got injured. He's the best of the worst, unfortunately. Says more about management, both previous and current, than Myers.

 

[kanucks25]

Very very strong possibility we start 0-5

I'd say this is a bit of a stretch.

We haven't looked amazing but we've also had multi-goal leads and been tied late in both games.

The next 3 teams we face aren't juggernauts, all average at best.

I never had high hopes for this team, but I think the doom and gloom has gone a bit overboard considering how early it is. We could win 2 of the next 3, end up 2-3 on the road trip overall and that isn't terrible.