Value of: (Girard) Avs prepare for the expansion draft

[McJedi]

Hard disagree.
Sure that D is still decent enough but Caufield is not worth that type of downgrade at all IMO.
And it also completely effs our capsituation. If Caufield can become that kind of goalscorer you think he can, how on earth can we afford him longterm?
I also really hate that Newhook- Caufield combo. You would have to play a guy like Nuke next to him to have it barely survive in the playoffs. Caufield is like 5ft6 at best probably (and will IMO due to that always suffer defensively) and Newhook also is on the smaller side (even though he should be atleast decent defensively considering from what I have seen. But probably not a shutdown type of guy either. Atleast you can't plan on it).
That move would force you to bump Rantanen down and pray that Landeskog can keep doing the heavy lifting physically and defensively on the topline for the next 5 years + atleast which is a tall task. Not to mention that nobody can yet predict what Newhook will exactly turn out to be in the NHL.

There honestly is probably no trade out there right now that I would like for Girard and his steal of a contract given where the Avs are right now.
We can farm the best years of Toews and then trade him with 1 year left if necessary to accomodate a potential bigger Byram extension. If one of Timmins/Helleson/Barron turns into a legit top 4 D solution, we could have one if not the best top4 in the league locked up for the next decade or so at a somewhat affordable rate. There is just no way I am sacrificing that for a guy like Caufield (who IMO would be a bad fit on the Avs. We don't need more offense first type of players with our top line + Newhook hopefully here for quite some time and can't pay them either.)

IMO its MacKinnon, Makar, Girard, Rantanen when it comes to how important our core players are to us longterm (factoring in contract status). Not trading G for anything that isn't a completely ridiculous offer. This is far from that.

if a Habs fan puts two very good prospects on the table, that’s at least something you think about.

Sam is also tiny, like Caufield, and that limits him as well. You can’t seriously point out Caufields size and not notice the three fingers pointing back at Sam.

you also didn’t note Romanov once. But if he’s good, that’s a PK 1 guy and someone that can hit. If he’s playing 17-18 minutes a night effectively, that has a lot of value too.

 

[JoemAvs]

if a Habs fan puts two very good prospects on the table, that’s at least something you think about.

Sam is also tiny, like Caufield, and that limits him as well. You can’t seriously point out Caufields size and not notice the three fingers pointing back at Sam.

you also didn’t note Romanov once. But if he’s good, that’s a PK 1 guy and someone that can hit. If he’s playing 17-18 minutes a night effectively, that has a lot of value too.

It really isn't. Why would the Avs move G for two guys who have proven nothing in the NHL? Seems silly to me.
Gs size is nowhere near the same issue than Caufields. He has already proven that he can be very effective time and time again defensively.

Romanov is just not a need at all in Colorado. So I don't even understand why he would be in a deal...
Sure he would be nice to have on the third pairing and might even help us on the PK but not if we lose our 3rd most valuable asset in the process...

Let Montreal keep their young goalscoring talent. Avs don't need him nearly as much as they do. And certainly not if it costs us Girard.

 

[triggrman]

The benefit is he gets to stay on a team he loves and a team that is one of the best in the league?

So he's going to waive his clause to stay on the team? Say that outloud.

 

[triggrman]

I was comparing their first seasons in their contracts....

gotcha.

 

[shadow1]

So he's going to waive his clause to stay on the team? Say that outloud.

Erik Johnson is 33 years old and has only played 4 games this season. According to a report yesterday this is due to linger effects of a concussion (was previously speculated to be an arm injury).

If Johnson doesn't waive, he'll be bought out. If he does waive, he won't be bought out and - unless Seattle's management team really hasn't done their homework - he won't be selected in the expansion draft, therefore staying with the Avalanche.

 

[Freudian]

So he's going to waive his clause to stay on the team? Say that outloud.

If he waives, Seattle won't pick him because he's a 33 year old oft-injured defender making $6M/year.
If he doesn't waive, he will get bought out.

Which of these alternative will allow him to remain an Avalanche player? You are free to say the answer out loud, should you prefer so.

 

[McJedi]

So he's going to waive his clause to stay on the team? Say that outloud.

Sure. Because he’s negative value contract and Seattle wouldn’t even contemplate bailing the Avs out of that.

So say that out loud. Money talks. Franchises will make the best financial decisions for themselves. Picking EJ would be a horrible financial decision for Seattle. Great for the Avs. But fairy tales don’t come true. Seattle will pick one of the Avs more valuable players.

 

[Mersss]

It really isn't. Why would the Avs move G for two guys who have proven nothing in the NHL? Seems silly to me.
Gs size is nowhere near the same issue than Caufields. He has already proven that he can be very effective time and time again defensively.

Romanov is just not a need at all in Colorado. So I don't even understand why he would be in a deal...
Sure he would be nice to have on the third pairing and might even help us on the PK but not if we lose our 3rd most valuable asset in the process...

Let Montreal keep their young goalscoring talent. Avs don't need him nearly as much as they do. And certainly not if it costs us Girard.

Habs do not touch that trade anyways.

Caufield has shown he can produce at the NHL level at a very good pace, and Romanov already look like a sure fire top4 D-man @ 20, he'll likelly carve out a Ekholm type of career.

Avs can Keep Girard, we'll keep our youg cheap ELC players, and once Weber retires in a year, we'll aim at Badard / Michkov and start from there.

 

[triggrman]

If he waives, Seattle won't pick him because he's a 33 year old oft-injured defender making $6M/year.
If he doesn't waive, he will get bought out.

Which of these alternative will allow him to remain an Avalanche player? You are free to say the answer out loud, should you prefer so.

What does his buyout look like, cap wise?

 

[triggrman]

Sure. Because he’s negative value contract and Seattle wouldn’t even contemplate bailing the Avs out of that.

So say that out loud. Money talks. Franchises will make the best financial decisions for themselves. Picking EJ would be a horrible financial decision for Seattle. Great for the Avs. But fairy tales don’t come true. Seattle will pick one of the Avs more valuable players.

and so do players.

 

[North Cole]

Sakic should be extremely attached, Girard is a god. So glad I stole in him fantasy since many still sleep on the guy. Love the Oilers to try and trade for the guy but we have nothing the Avs would value that we can afford to give up.

 

[McJedi]

and so do players.

We agree there.

And for EJ, the smart financial move is to waive. The worst financial situation is to force a buyout. He’d have to sign a cheap one year prove it deal to demonstrate show he’s healthy and can stay that way. He’d lose $4mm minus the 1-$1.5mm one year prove it contract.

buyout is $8mm vs the $12mm he’s owed.

4 years x $2mm per.

 

[triggrman]

We agree there.

And for EJ, the smart financial move is to waive. The worst financial situation is to force a buyout. He’d have to sign a cheap one year prove it deal for show he’s healthy. He’d lose $4mm minus the 1-$1.5mm one year prove it contract.

buyout is $8mm vs the $12mm he’s owed.

4 years x $2mm per.

Seeing those numbers, I'd agree with you completely.

I guess it depends on what his real goal is and where his health is, if in his mind he's about done, he'd want the buyout. If he believes he can bring another team value, he'd take the buyout and become a FA. If he just wants to continue playing in Colorado for his contract number maybe he doesn't waive.

It'll be interesting to see where this goes. I think we as fans all want to believe players will stay with our teams at discounts, when in real life, when it comes to egos of players, it doesn't happen.


On the subject of Girard, I'd say he's for sure one of your top defensemen and will be protected, no matter what happens with EJ.

 

[McJedi]

Habs do not touch that trade anyways.

Caufield has shown he can produce at the NHL level at a very good pace, and Romanov already look like a sure fire top4 D-man @ 20, he'll likelly carve out a Ekholm type of career.

Avs can Keep Girard, we'll keep our youg cheap ELC players, and once Weber retires in a year, we'll aim at Badard / Michkov and start from there.

For the first time ever, I agree with this guy. The cost for the Habs to acquire Girard would be too steep for them to justify. Caufield + Romanov may not be enough. Suzuki straight-up isn’t enough.

their best bet is to draft D again this year and be patient. Gotta find that puck mover. It’s risky because you can’t draft BPA. You’re targeting a need. But that’s their best shot to fill that puck moving LHD requirement.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Habs already had a better Girard in Mete. Why did they waive him?

 

[McJedi]

Seeing those numbers, I'd agree with you completely.

I guess it depends on what his real goal is and where his health is, if in his mind he's about done, he'd want the buyout. If he believes he can bring another team value, he'd take the buyout and become a FA. If he just wants to continue playing in Colorado for his contract number maybe he doesn't waive.

It'll be interesting to see where this goes. I think we as fans all want to believe players will stay with our teams at discounts, when in real life, when it comes to egos of players, it doesn't happen.


On the subject of Girard, I'd say he's for sure one of your top defensemen and will be protected, no matter what happens with EJ.

EJ won’t have the option to be protected. He’s either waiving and sticking with the Avs or he’s getting himself traded or bought out.

Avs protect Makar, Toews and Girard. Byram and Timmins don’t require protection from the ED. Ryan Graves will be exposed and likely Seattle’s selection.

 

[McJedi]

Habs already had a better Girard in Mete. Why did they waive him?

That Mete looked pretty capable with Ottawa was amusing to me.

 

[triggrman]

EJ won’t have the option to be protected. He’s either waiving and sticking with the Avs or he’s getting himself traded or bought out.

Avs protect Makar, Toews and Girard. Byram and Timmins don’t require protection from the ED. Ryan Graves will be exposed and likely Seattle’s selection.

Well if doesn't waive, he's not getting traded.....

I agree with the rest.

 

[McJedi]

Well if doesn't waive, he's not getting traded.....

I agree with the rest.

Probably not. I should have said. “Traded with retention” and even then it’s unlikely. Who trades for an injured player? With retention, maybe... but I don’t see it easily.

the buyout route isn’t that painful. It’s not a worse case scenario. It’s $4mm in new cap space for the next two years (awesome) followed by two years of $2mm in dead space (meh, kinda sucks but it’s $2mm, not $7mm and it’s just two years).

 

[CamPopplestone]

Honestly as an outside fan, you have to protect Girard. I imagine EJ will either waive or be bought out. But even if you have to do direct him, I imagine the Aves just protect their top 4 forwards, EJ, Makar, Girard and Tires, and eat the loss of either Graves or a middle 6 forward. It sucks, but it's probably not worth a major asset to make Seattle take someone lesser. You can replace a middle 6 forward in free agency. You can't replace a Top 4 D on that good of a contract at that age.

Some teams are going to lose a good player in expansion. The key is accepting that and knowing you got a great team still. Not trading multiple assets to protect one guy you like, and then having your depth be screwed up and the assets you traded turn out better than what you protected.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Honestly as an outside fan, you have to protect Girard. I imagine EJ will either waive or be bought out. But even if you have to do direct him, I imagine the Aves just protect their top 4 forwards, EJ, Makar, Girard and Tires, and eat the loss of either Graves or a middle 6 forward. It sucks, but it's probably not worth a major asset to make Seattle take someone lesser. You can replace a middle 6 forward in free agency. You can't replace a Top 4 D on that good of a contract at that age.

Some teams are going to lose a good player in expansion. The key is accepting that and knowing you got a great team still. Not trading multiple assets to protect one guy you like, and then having your depth be screwed up and the assets you traded turn out better than what you protected.

He will. The fact that this thread is even a thing is mind boggling to me.

 

[theVladiator]

We agree there.

And for EJ, the smart financial move is to waive. The worst financial situation is to force a buyout. He’d have to sign a cheap one year prove it deal to demonstrate show he’s healthy and can stay that way. He’d lose $4mm minus the 1-$1.5mm one year prove it contract.

buyout is $8mm vs the $12mm he’s owed.

4 years x $2mm per.

You do not think he can average 2M each year over two years if he is bought out? Another reasons to prefer buyout - you can choose your team. Might be a factor for family reasons, or if he wants a chance at the Cup.

Another wrinkle is - can you buy out an injured player?

Not saying he won't waive, but the situation here doesn't appear to be a slam dunk.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

You do not think he can average 2M each year over two years if he is bought out? Another reasons to prefer buyout - you can choose your team. Might be a factor for family reasons, or if he wants a chance at the Cup.

Another wrinkle is - can you buy out an injured player?

Not saying he won't waive, but the situation here doesn't appear to be a slam dunk.

Good point about buying out injured players.

If he's been injured for an entire year is he eligible to be picked for the expansion draft? And if not, does he need to be protected?

 

[theVladiator]

Honestly as an outside fan, you have to protect Girard. I imagine EJ will either waive or be bought out. But even if you have to do direct him, I imagine the Aves just protect their top 4 forwards, EJ, Makar, Girard and Tires, and eat the loss of either Graves or a middle 6 forward. It sucks, but it's probably not worth a major asset to make Seattle take someone lesser. You can replace a middle 6 forward in free agency. You can't replace a Top 4 D on that good of a contract at that age.

Some teams are going to lose a good player in expansion. The key is accepting that and knowing you got a great team still. Not trading multiple assets to protect one guy you like, and then having your depth be screwed up and the assets you traded turn out better than what you protected.

I do not think Graves gets a second look if Burakovsky/Kadri are available.

 

[CamPopplestone]

I do not think Graves gets a second look if Burakovsky/Kadri are available.

Perhaps not, depends on what defense is available though. Also I figure Kadri wouldn't be exposed