Value of: (Girard) Avs prepare for the expansion draft

[flyfysher]

What the f***.... This was posted by an avs fan as well.


How can you be so far out of touch with the team you cheer for. Holy f***.

Sometimes you come off as rather harsh in your criticisms but this isn’t one of those occasions. Your critique is spot on.

 

[majormajor]

I completely agree that he could demand $10m and Sakic would sign him. But, as you even say, that's being greedy. Which means that fair market is below that, probably in the $9 - 9.5 range. How is fair market a discount?

"Fair market" is just a way of saying "market", minus any corruption or fraud. Basically in this context it means market, in other words the most a player could get. I say $9m is a discount, and $8m is a huge discount.

I don't think there is anything wrong with going for a discount, by the way.

 

[majormajor]

I completely agree he could demand whatever he wants, and would probably get it from someone. But, is that worth leaving what is arguably the best team in the NHL when they are poised for a decade of contending? For that matter, would more money make Eichel happy in Buffalo?

No I agree, Makar will likely be willing to take less than full market value, he's going to want to help the team. Nothing wrong with that. Our debate was more about what his full value was.

 

[triggrman]

I mean Girard isn't too far off of where Josi was when that contract was signed. I mean he outproduced him this year by a decent margin and is the best transition dman in the league. I would definitely say the situations are comparable.

How so?

 

[triggrman]

No he wouldn’t. Not over Bura.

but it won’t come to that. EJ waives, is traded with retention or gets bought out.

The one thing EJ won’t be? That one thing is protected in the ED.

Why would EJ waive? Where does that benefit him?

 

[Mersss]

Why would EJ waive? Where does that benefit him?

Exacr point I keep saying, but Avs fans are confident he will..

In the event he doesn jot waive, he gets 8m$,on the spot + another contracr after he gets bought out. So yah, he has no reason to waive except please some Avs fans I guess

 

[Spilot23]

Why would EJ waive? Where does that benefit him?

He should do a "Spezza" waive his NMC and publicly say that he won't play for Seattle if they pick him

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

No he wouldn’t. Not over Bura.

but it won’t come to that. EJ waives, is traded with retention or gets bought out.

The one thing EJ won’t be? That one thing is protected in the ED.

Bura is a year from UFA and will likely get a big raise that takes him out of the Avs salary structure. I can see a team taking a gamble on him being a legit first liner and paying 6. 5M/year.

I would rather have cheap home grown Jost.

 

[The Abusement Park]

How so?

Sorry. He was on pace to. 8 less points in 22 less games.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Exacr point I keep saying, but Avs fans are confident he will..

In the event he doesn jot waive, he gets 8m$,on the spot + another contracr after he gets bought out. So yah, he has no reason to waive except please some Avs fans I guess

To be fair most Avs fans are saying he’s either going to waive or get bought out.

 

[triggrman]

Sorry. He was on pace to. 8 less points in 22 less games.

Girard v. Josi this year? You've confused me.

 

[Mersss]

To be fair most Avs fans are saying he’s either going to waive or get bought out.

Yah, but let's be honnest here...

Sakic goes down there and says what?

"Hey EJ, we'd like you to waive for SEA, you know, they won't pick you anyways, and if you do not we'll just buy you out"

EJ is not an idiot, he knows his time in COL is done. Get your 8M$ from.a buy out, and then go sifn for another contender who'll lose a dman like TOR or EDM for a 2 years 6M$ and make even more $

 

[De Montreal]

Would love him on the Habs. No one aside from Suzuki would be untouchable. So yeah, that include Caufield, Kotkaniemi, Romanov...

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

"Fair market" is just a way of saying "market", minus any corruption or fraud. Basically in this context it means market, in other words the most a player could get. I say $9m is a discount, and $8m is a huge discount.

I don't think there is anything wrong with going for a discount, by the way.

I use "fair market" to try to eliminate what a desperate GM might do in order to try to save his job. Unfortunately, there are always desperate GMs, so there's always those crazy overpayments out there as an option if a player wants a big payday on a bottom feeder. But, the market to play on a contender is a little different, and the cap hits being offered are usually significantly lower.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Yah, but let's be honnest here...

Sakic goes down there and says what?

"Hey EJ, we'd like you to waive for SEA, you know, they won't pick you anyways, and if you do not we'll just buy you out"

EJ is not an idiot, he knows his time in COL is done. Get your 8M$ from.a buy out, and then go sifn for another contender who'll lose a dman like TOR or EDM for a 2 years 6M$ and make even more $

"Hey EJ, the expansion draft is coming up, and we need you to waive your NMC so we can keep the best team together, giving us the best chance at the Cup over the next couple of seasons. If you do this, and can get healthy, we've got a spot on the roster for you. If you can't get healthy, you can LTIRetire with us, with the option of joining the front office once you officially retire. Otherwise, we're going to have to make some tough choices."

And, EJ, having only played 4 games this season and not being an idiot, knows his career is coming to an end, and would rather get the full $12m from the best team in hockey and get 2 more shots at the Cup instead of trying to get a PTO contract with a bottom feeder.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Girard v. Josi this year? You've confused me.

I was comparing their first seasons in their contracts....

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yah, but let's be honnest here...

Sakic goes down there and says what?

"Hey EJ, we'd like you to waive for SEA, you know, they won't pick you anyways, and if you do not we'll just buy you out"

EJ is not an idiot, he knows his time in COL is done. Get your 8M$ from.a buy out, and then go sifn for another contender who'll lose a dman like TOR or EDM for a 2 years 6M$ and make even more $

It doesn't have to be though. I mean Sakic could buy him out and then resign him for like 3mil a season and he'd end up making basically the same amount of money. If he waives I just don't see why SEA would want him purely based on his injury history. Regardless of which way Sakic goes, I think the chances of him being protected are pretty damn low.

 

[Freudian]

Why would EJ waive? Where does that benefit him?

The benefit is he gets to stay on a team he loves and a team that is one of the best in the league?

 

[McJedi]

Bura is a year from UFA and will likely get a big raise that takes him out of the Avs salary structure. I can see a team taking a gamble on him being a legit first liner and paying 6. 5M/year.

I would rather have cheap home grown Jost.

The Avs want to win a cup next year. Bura gets you closer than Jost.

you and I are having a nonsensical argument however. Avs will go the 7-3-1 route. EJ will either be exposed or he’ll no longer be a member of the Avs organization by the ED. The only thing that won’t happen is EJ getting protected.

Will be this.
Mack, Rants, Landy, Bura, Nuke, Jost, Kadri.
Makar, Girardo, Toews
Grubs.

exposed: EJ (waives) Graves, Donny.

Seattle picks Graves or Donny. Maybe they take Saad if they want to sign him before free agency. I think they’ll take Graves without a second thought.

 

[McJedi]

Would love him on the Habs. No one aside from Suzuki would be untouchable. So yeah, that include Caufield, Kotkaniemi, Romanov...

A Girard for Caufield + Romanov offer would make me pause.

I doubt the Avs would have any interest in Kotkaniemi. But those two would be interesting from a fit standpoint.

 

[McJedi]

Why would EJ waive? Where does that benefit him?

So he can stay on the Avs vs being traded or bought out and having to relocate if he wants to continue his NHL career.

 

[JoemAvs]

A Girard for Caufield + Romanov offer would make me pause.

I doubt the Avs would have any interest in Kotkaniemi. But those two would be interesting from a fit standpoint.

Really?

IMO one of the worse offers for Girard I have read recently...

I also don't like the fit for the Avs at all...

A second line winger (he is not bumping down Rantanen or atleast shouldn't) and a guy that hopefully would get relegated to bottom pairing duties due to Byram taking over that vacant spot ...

Hard pass.

The only thing that should even start the conversation for Girard is a #1 C on a very cheap very longterm contract. And we are not going to get that for him.

 

[McJedi]

Really?

IMO one of the worse offers for Girard I have read recently...

I also don't like the fit for the Avs at all...

A second line winger (he is not bumping down Rantanen or atleast shouldn't) and a guy that hopefully would get relegated to bottom pairing duties due to Byram taking over that vacant spot ...

Hard pass.

The only thing that should even start the conversation for Girard is a #1 C on a very cheap very longterm contract. And we are not going to get that for him.

Depends what you think of Romanov. If his ceiling his middle pair and physical presence, then it’s interesting if you also assume Caufield becomes a 25+ goal guy.

a 2nd pair and second line winger on rookie deals... that’s not terrible. Far from it.

then your D is
Byram-Makar
Toews-Timmins
Romanov-Helleson/Barron

which remains an elite Dcore. Deep too.

and Caufield replaces Bura in a year, Saad for next season. Caufield and Newhook form an insane 2nd line in a few years.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Just won the President's trophy and still have Byram and Newhook coming up.. the Avs' riches of talent makes me sick but as a neutral, this team is almost built perfectly (unless you don't view Grubs as a true #1G/worried about his injuries piling up).

 

[JoemAvs]

Depends what you think of Romanov. If his ceiling his middle pair and physical presence, then it’s interesting if you also assume Caufield becomes a 25+ goal guy.

a 2nd pair and second line winger on rookie deals... that’s not terrible. Far from it.

then your D is
Byram-Makar
Toews-Timmins
Romanov-Helleson/Barron

which remains an elite Dcore. Deep too.

and Caufield replaces Bura in a year, Saad for next season. Caufield and Newhook form an insane 2nd line in a few years.

Hard disagree.
Sure that D is still decent enough but Caufield is not worth that type of downgrade at all IMO.
And it also completely effs our capsituation. If Caufield can become that kind of goalscorer you think he can, how on earth can we afford him longterm?
I also really hate that Newhook- Caufield combo. You would have to play a guy like Nuke next to him to have it barely survive in the playoffs. Caufield is like 5ft6 at best probably (and will IMO due to that always suffer defensively) and Newhook also is on the smaller side (even though he should be atleast decent defensively considering from what I have seen. But probably not a shutdown type of guy either. Atleast you can't plan on it).
That move would force you to bump Rantanen down and pray that Landeskog can keep doing the heavy lifting physically and defensively on the topline for the next 5 years + atleast which is a tall task. Not to mention that nobody can yet predict what Newhook will exactly turn out to be in the NHL.

There honestly is probably no trade out there right now that I would like for Girard and his steal of a contract given where the Avs are right now.
We can farm the best years of Toews and then trade him with 1 year left if necessary to accomodate a potential bigger Byram extension. If one of Timmins/Helleson/Barron turns into a legit top 4 D solution, we could have one if not the best top4 in the league locked up for the next decade or so at a somewhat affordable rate. There is just no way I am sacrificing that for a guy like Caufield (who IMO would be a bad fit on the Avs. We don't need more offense first type of players with our top line + Newhook hopefully here for quite some time and can't pay them either.)

IMO its MacKinnon, Makar, Girard, Rantanen when it comes to how important our core players are to us longterm (factoring in contract status). Not trading G for anything that isn't a completely ridiculous offer. This is far from that.