Getzlaf vs Matthews

[SotasicA]

Which one is the better player right now?

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[CantLoseWithMatthews]

close but Matthews. good poll

 

[Maplebeasts]

Give me Matthews. Scoring is about even but he gets way more goals and is a very complete player.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Auston Matthews and so far this season he has better overall numbers.

 

[Snippit]

Give me Matthews. Scoring is about even but he gets way more goals and is a very complete player.

I can understand taking Matthews but your reasoning is whack

1) Getzlaf has the better p/gp by a decent amount..not "about even"
2) Getzlaf is arguably better defensively and more "complete"

 

[LeafsNation75]

I can understand taking Matthews but your reasoning is whack

1) Getzlaf has the better p/gp by a decent amount..not "about even"
2) Getzlaf is arguably better defensively and more "complete"

So even though Matthews is +23 and Getzlaf is +12, that doesn't make Matthews better defensively?

 

[Sojourn]

Give me Matthews. Scoring is about even but he gets way more goals and is a very complete player.

The scoring is not about even.

It's a 90 point pace to about a 75 point pace.

Getzlaf is also a very complete player.

 

[Sojourn]

So even though Matthews is +23 and Getzlaf is +12, that doesn't make Matthews better defensively?

Anaheim's goal differential is -4.

Toronto's is +26.

The answer is no. Looking at their respective +/-'s does not point to Matthews being better defensively.

 

[eternalbedhead]

I'm not voting in this poll and I'm not going to participate in it after this post (obligatory "hi mom" for when this thread inevitably blows up into a 25-page piss war), but here's a couple things about Getzlaf for some of you who seem to be misinformed. None of this is meant to say anything about Matthews -- if I call Getzlaf a complete player I'm not saying Matthews is not -- but considering the amount of misconceptions I've seen regarding Getzlaf, I figured I'd just add something to the discussion from someone who watches him all the time.

• He's a very complete player himself, on and off the ice. He has quietly become one of the team's best defensive forwards while continuing to quietly dominate in the offensive end. It took him a while to develop that side of the game but he is a true 200-foot forward. He's a very hard worker (probably the biggest reason that he played so well in the playoffs last year) and a consummate professional.
• Getzlaf is not a goal-scorer. He's a playmaker. Even then, his shot is actually very underrated. Ask any Ducks fan and you'd find that all of us get rather frustrated that he doesn't use it more. He's a fantastic passer but he could be even more than that if he'd utilize that dangerous shot of his every now and then. But even without him shooting that much, he's still one of the best playmakers in the league. Fantastic vision, as well as very strong technical passing ability. He's not a fast skater, but his puck control is still towards the tops of the league and his skating deficiencies haven't seemed to bug him in the slightest.
• Getzlaf is almost 33, but he hasn't dropped off yet. Quite the contrary -- he's arguably playing the best hockey of his life.
• He's not flashy. He's not a dangler. He's not a lightning-fast skater. But he quietly gets the job done, dominating possession night after night. He knows how to create space, and he knows how to find it. He makes everyone who plays with him better.
• He's playing on a team that has serious issues in the areas of defensive play and overall 60-minute effort. He is consistently one of the lone bright spots in games where I want to throw something at the TV.

Also, +/- is a really bad stat. Please don't use it.

EDIT: Before advanced stats come in here, let me just say that Kase beats out Matthews in most categories (and Getzlaf, for that matter) and somehow wins the context argument as well. Point being? I love Kase. He's not a franchise forward, though. And yet he's beating out someone who IS, in several stats. (P1/60, G/60, CF%, xGF%, CA/60, and obviously CF%Rel) With worse QoT (he's dragging around Nick Ritchie's corpse night afte night) and similar QoC values. Think twice before you bring any of those in here. I've made clear my distrust of the advanced stats that are currently available in several other threads and I've given a clear example to back things up. Discuss skill-sets. Not numbers.

 

[Maplebeasts]

So even though Matthews is +23 and Getzlaf is +12, that doesn't make Matthews better defensively?

I mean there are some things to use to argue for Matthews defensively, but +- isn't one of them.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Very close, fan of both. But I give the slight edge to Matthews due to scoring goals.

 

[Maplebeasts]

The scoring is not about even.

It's a 90 point pace to about a 75 point pace.

Getzlaf is also a very complete player.

The problem with pace when we're a tad over 50 games into the season is that one game can totally change the picture. A 3 point night and Matthews is pacing for about 80 points, a hot stretch of 3 or 4 games and all of a sudden he'd be pacing for around 90.

 

[snipes]

So even though Matthews is +23 and Getzlaf is +12, that doesn't make Matthews better defensively?

Terrible logical reasoning.

 

[firstemperor]

It's close, I would have put Getzlaf higher on my personal list than he got voted in by HF. And likewise with Matthews, with Matthews ahead.

To me, there's an elite class of centers (Crosby, McDavid). A mini tier occupied by Malkin alone.

Then probably a 3rd mini tier with Bergeron alone...then a bunch of names in the 4th tier, including younger C's like Matthews, Eichel, Barkov.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Terrible logical reasoning.

Yeah +- wasn't the right stat to bring into this. However Matthews does have a better GF% and GF% rel while having similar zone starts and facing similar competition at 5v5.

 

[Cleatus]

Goals > Assists by a significant margin, so Matthews for me.

 

[Sojourn]

The problem with pace when we're a tad over 50 games into the season is that one game can totally change the picture. A 3 point night and Matthews is pacing for about 80 points, a hot stretch of 3 or 4 games and all of a sudden he'd be pacing for around 90.

Sure, but that same argument applies to Getzlaf, only he's already pacing 90 points.

It's also worth mentioning that he has multiple seasons where he has exceeded a point per game. If we include this one, he's currently sitting at 7. People forget that he has about 900 games played now, and about 850 points. They forget that he is 3 points shy of being a PPG player in the playoffs, over 120 games.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Should be a neutral and team player's fan option tbh.

 

[Ace of Hades]

So even though Matthews is +23 and Getzlaf is +12, that doesn't make Matthews better defensively?

I wasnt aware that + and - statistics is now the way to judge a player's defensive acumen.

 

[Ctrain2k]

It has to be Getzalf he's better at everything by miles except goal scoring

 

[Kelly]

I wasnt aware that + and - statistics is now the way to judge a player's defensive acumen.

I agree +/- is a garb stat, I mean look no further than William Karlsson leading the league -- it's more of a team stat. But if I had a nickel every time posters here used it against Rielly and Zaitzev last year, I'd have at least 1 dollar.

Anyway, it's probably Getzlaf, though comparing their PPG's isn't very fair since Getzlaf has played about 15 less games, but it's close.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I wasnt aware that + and - statistics is now the way to judge a player's defensive acumen.

I remember years ago when the question was asked about who was better between Kessel and Seguin before both players were traded, we were told Seguin because he had a better +/- compared to Kessel. So now when a Leafs player like Matthews has the better +/- now it's a useless stat?

 

[Sojourn]

I remember years ago when the question was asked about who was better between Kessel and Seguin before both players were traded, we were told Seguin because he had a better +/- compared to Kessel. So now when a Leafs player like Matthews has the better +/- now it's a useless stat?

No, it was useless then too.

 

[Ace of Hades]

I remember years ago when the question was asked about who was better between Kessel and Seguin before both players were traded, we were told Seguin because he had a better +/- compared to Kessel. So now when a Leafs player like Matthews has the better +/- now it's a useless stat?

It was always a useless stat. Regardless of the player and team he plays for.

 

[Cotton]

It has to be Getzalf he's better at everything by miles except goal scoring

LOL, nope, but he is better at some things.