German football 2019/2020

[HajdukSplit]

Dortmund confirm 2nd place, Leipzig due to their superior GD are in the CL next season too but 5th place is three points behind (RB Leipzig have a +27 on Leverkusen though )

Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim combined with Freiburg's loss confirm their spot in next season's EL, only question is who finishes 6th and avoid the qualifying rounds which next season will be single elimination matches. Both are on the same points but Wolfsburg have a far superior GD, though Wolfsburg host Bayern next round but Hoffenheim go to Dortmund

Mainz and Augsburg safe, Fortuna didn't do the job at home and still go to the final day nervy, however Bremen lost to Mainz and now must win on the final day and hope Fortuna don't get a result. Both play teams with nothing to play for, Fortuna going to Union while Bremen host Koln

 

[Bure80]

It's hard to say what Dortmund will need to do to become a 'destination club' or 'super club' short of being purchased by a billionaire. I think the days where you can get there just by solid management are over because you just can't generate the capital like that. Dortmund are only what 10 years removed from fighting against relegation, 15 years from near bankruptcy. There's not Bayern's 50 year foundation of commercial and sporting success to build on.

They come a little bit closer because of the new main sponsor 1&1. They got 20 Mio€/season from Evonik. 1&1 pays 40 Mio€/season.

 

[PeteWorrell]

People bash Dortmund for bottling but Leipzig has been even worse. Not sure how they are going to cope now that Werner is gone.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Tomorrow is do or die for HSV. Hamburg at Heidenheim.

I'm oldschool. If someone had told me 5 years ago Bremen fighting relegation and HSV fighting for promotion I had declared him crazy. Well, times are changing.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I don't know, 5 years ago Bremen were already a mid-table side and HSV were in the relegation playoff. The current scenario was already pretty likely given the lack of investment in Bremen and the total chaos in Hamburg. Now, 15 years ago, yeah that would have been seen as crazy, Werder were a CL side and Hamburg were still talking about becoming a contender at any point now.

 

[Bon Esprit]

I don't know, 5 years ago Bremen were already a mid-table side and HSV were in the relegation playoff. The current scenario was already pretty likely given the lack of investment in Bremen and the total chaos in Hamburg. Now, 15 years ago, yeah that would have been seen as crazy, Werder were a CL side and Hamburg were still talking about becoming a contender at any point now.

Nobody ever thought Hamburg ever get relegated, It was a bad year or two, they said. Just like Bochum in the old days. They called themselves "Die Unabsteigbaren". HSV learned it's easier to get relegated than promoted. IMO HSV is as rotten as Schalke is.
Bremen is different. They only lost Kruse and totally fell apart after he left. Nonetheless there is much less pressure. If they get relegated, they'll come back soon.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Are all the Werder fans who cried about Dortmund losing to Mainz still raving after they lost to Mainz head-to-head too? Or is Dortmund's characterless, mercenary culture still the reason they're in 17th place rather than their own awful performance?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Nobody ever thought Hamburg ever get relegated, It was a bad year or two, they said. Just like Bochum in the old days. They called themselves "Die Unabsteigbaren". HSV learned it's easier to get relegated than promoted. IMO HSV is as rotten as Schalke is.
Bremen is different. They only lost Kruse and totally fell apart after he left. Nonetheless there is much less pressure. If they get relegated, they'll come back soon.

I think HSV are actually far more rotten than Schalke.

 

[Hadoop]

Who needs fans when you have Erling Haaland's unbridled enthusiasm?

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

Dortmund lacks the ability to sit on players like Bayern can. At the end of the day, in the era of the super club.. you either are one or you're not. Dortmund are 'close' but they aren't at this point. They can't compete with the top 5-10 clubs in Europe for players. The fact they can still outbid pretty much everyone in Germany other than Bayern shows how steep the differences are by now.

Everyone other than those few 'destination clubs' is basically in a position where every player is just a temporary solution for as little as one season. Players that stick around longer do so for a reason - a reason most likely working against your success.

It's hard to say what Dortmund will need to do to become a 'destination club' or 'super club' short of being purchased by a billionaire. I think the days where you can get there just by solid management are over because you just can't generate the capital like that. Dortmund are only what 10 years removed from fighting against relegation, 15 years from near bankruptcy. There's not Bayern's 50 year foundation of commercial and sporting success to build on.

I'll keep this in the context of Germany but it can be applied across Europe - when it comes to Dortmund vs. Bayern, the problems for Dortmund come in the fact that Bayern have a more prestigious history, which makes them more appealing. Bayern are a well-run club with great sponsorship agreements that finance them better than anybody else in Germany (and, thanks to this, they can pay their players top wages). And Bayern play in Munich, which most people would say is the most desirable city to live in Germany (everything else being equal). I'm not saying any of this to knock Dortmund the club, or Dortmund the city (or the Ruhr region or NRW as a whole). But those are factors they can't compete with. It's not their fault, and it's not Bayern's fault - I mean, it's not their "fault" that their board does a fantastic job running the club.

So good luck to Dortmund, or anyone else really, being able to fight the fight with Bayern on a consistent basis year-to-year. Given the reluctance in Germany to abolish or soften 50% + 1, you're simply not going to see teams be taken over and injected with tons of cash. Bayern has established something of a runaway train here and what's probably even more frightening is that, with the transfer business we've seen them do and/or be linked to ahead of next season, I'm not really sure when or where that's going to change anytime soon. This team is likely to add Sane and might be able to add Havertz. This being a team that really might win the treble this year. How do you close the gap on that?!

I'm not saying this to be one of those "Bayernliga" complainers, btw. It might be boring but this is my favorite football league in the world and I will always watch it. But if you told me to take a bet on whether Bayern wins the league every year through the '20s, or someone else wins it during one of those years, I'd probably bet on Bayern to sweep the decade. I just don't see where this is going to change.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Sorry, but LOL HSV.

Liveticker | 1. FC Heidenheim - Hamburger SV 2:1 | 33. Spieltag | 2. Bundesliga 2019/20

I can't believe it.

 

[gary69]

Sorry, but LOL HSV.

Liveticker | 1. FC Heidenheim - Hamburger SV 2:1 | 33. Spieltag | 2. Bundesliga 2019/20

I can't believe it.

How many times they have given up the lead and lost/drawn a match instead? Must be close to record for a team so high in the standings.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Bielefeld giving up a 3-0 lead in a match with relegation battle implications has to be much worse than what Dortmund did against Mainz. Fix is in?

 

[Bon Esprit]

Bielefeld giving up a 3-0 lead in a match with relegation battle implications has to be much worse than what Dortmund did against Mainz. Fix is in?

And the last game will be vs. Heidenheim...

BTW, Welcome back VfB.

 

[Deficient Mode]

I'll keep this in the context of Germany but it can be applied across Europe - when it comes to Dortmund vs. Bayern, the problems for Dortmund come in the fact that Bayern have a more prestigious history, which makes them more appealing. Bayern are a well-run club with great sponsorship agreements that finance them better than anybody else in Germany (and, thanks to this, they can pay their players top wages). And Bayern play in Munich, which most people would say is the most desirable city to live in Germany (everything else being equal). I'm not saying any of this to knock Dortmund the club, or Dortmund the city (or the Ruhr region or NRW as a whole). But those are factors they can't compete with. It's not their fault, and it's not Bayern's fault - I mean, it's not their "fault" that their board does a fantastic job running the club.

So good luck to Dortmund, or anyone else really, being able to fight the fight with Bayern on a consistent basis year-to-year. Given the reluctance in Germany to abolish or soften 50% + 1, you're simply not going to see teams be taken over and injected with tons of cash. Bayern has established something of a runaway train here and what's probably even more frightening is that, with the transfer business we've seen them do and/or be linked to ahead of next season, I'm not really sure when or where that's going to change anytime soon. This team is likely to add Sane and might be able to add Havertz. This being a team that really might win the treble this year. How do you close the gap on that?!

I'm not saying this to be one of those "Bayernliga" complainers, btw. It might be boring but this is my favorite football league in the world and I will always watch it. But if you told me to take a bet on whether Bayern wins the league every year through the '20s, or someone else wins it during one of those years, I'd probably bet on Bayern to sweep the decade. I just don't see where this is going to change.

I agree with a lot of this but I don't think Bayern is even run particularly competently. The growing financial gap allows them to get away with incompetence and still win the league title, like the choice to hire Kovac. The club's history, the wealth of the city, and the lack of a regional competitor all made this a layup for them. I don't know if I would even say that their financial management to set this up was brilliant, or if those factors assured their financial superiority. And I agree that barring major financial changes to the league or the whole sport, Bayern are likely to lose the title maybe once every 5-10 years. And the league is still enjoyable despite that inevitability.

 

[Bon Esprit]

How many times they have given up the lead and lost/drawn a match instead? Must be close to record for a team so high in the standings.

I just read it was the fourth time since corona break. Unbelievable.

 

[Hadoop]

...Bayern are likely to lose the title maybe once every 5-10 years. And the league is still enjoyable despite that inevitability.

This. And I really do believe the league as a whole is fairly well-run and deserving of the spotlight they've had the last few weeks.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

This. And I really do believe the league as a whole is fairly well-run and deserving of the spotlight they've had the last few weeks.

Its amazingly run. Sure no one can match munich spending power but they have multiple teams that play an exciting brand of footy. Much more entertaining than epl/serie a

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

So, on US television, the FS1 game of choice for the final day of the season is...Wolfsburg/Bayern. While Wolfsburg are technically trying to finish in 6th and avoid the Europa League qualifying rounds, Bayern have nothing at all to play for. Meanwhile, there's Gladbach/Hertha with Champions League qualification at stake, but that game is relegated to #3 in Fox's priority list.

It's a fitting end to their Bundesliga coverage, really. They already began to mail it in at the start of this season, rarely airing the Saturday Topspiel even after college football season ended, not airing the Friday games anymore because of the need to have Colin Cowherd's radio show air on television instead, and then they doubled down on it after the COVID restart, with absolutely zero studio-type coverage to speak of. Which, you know, I would rather see those little vignettes as opposed to hearing Alexi Lalas spew absolute nonsense, but that's not really the point. Fox hasn't made any effort beyond the absolute minimum to cover the sport this season. So it's only appropriate that they would default to a meaningless Bayern game (having already done the same this past weekend instead of airing a game between 2nd place and 3rd place) as opposed to airing either of the games with direct Champions League implications.

Good riddance, Fox. You won't be missed.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So, on US television, the FS1 game of choice for the final day of the season is...Wolfsburg/Bayern. While Wolfsburg are technically trying to finish in 6th and avoid the Europa League qualifying rounds, Bayern have nothing at all to play for. Meanwhile, there's Gladbach/Hertha with Champions League qualification at stake, but that game is relegated to #3 in Fox's priority list.

It's a fitting end to their Bundesliga coverage, really. They already began to mail it in at the start of this season, rarely airing the Saturday Topspiel even after college football season ended, not airing the Friday games anymore because of the need to have Colin Cowherd's radio show air on television instead, and then they doubled down on it after the COVID restart, with absolutely zero studio-type coverage to speak of. Which, you know, I would rather see those little vignettes as opposed to hearing Alexi Lalas spew absolute nonsense, but that's not really the point. Fox hasn't made any effort beyond the absolute minimum to cover the sport this season. So it's only appropriate that they would default to a meaningless Bayern game (having already done the same this past weekend instead of airing a game between 2nd place and 3rd place) as opposed to airing either of the games with direct Champions League implications.

Good riddance, Fox. You won't be missed.

I think ESPN will probably cover it better. I don't think Fox covers sports well. ESPN has always covered this sport much better than Fox, as well. It was a shame that Fox was awarded the 2018 and 2022 World Cups in a rigged bidding process.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Next year in Canada DAZN has the Friday and Sunday coverage. I assume Sportsnetworld will take Saturday...I don't know if that has been confirmed.

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

I think ESPN will probably cover it better. I don't think Fox covers sports well. ESPN has always covered this sport much better than Fox, as well. It was a shame that Fox was awarded the 2018 and 2022 World Cups in a rigged bidding process.

I hesitate saying that only because ESPN is going to relegate almost everything to ESPN+, so it won't even be on television at all, and I also have some serious irritation with their Serie A coverage (taking just yesterday alone as an example - I have many others - they aired SPAL vs. Cagliari when Verona vs. Napoli was on at the same time...why?) but at least ESPN+ is a reasonable product and every Bundesliga game would figure to be available on-demand for at least a good period of time after they have been played, so if you miss a game, it doesn't necessarily mean you've missed your chance to watch it. Not a big deal for the Bayern and Dortmund fans of the world, but for the Gladbach fans of the world, I can't always be 100% sure of being able to find a broadcast if I missed the game (though this has gotten better over the years).

In any case, even if I don't rate ESPN's soccer coverage as being great, it still beats Fox by some distance. Fox puts all their effort into the NFL and Big Ten college football, and Turner puts all their effort into the NBA. None of the other sports properties those companies have matters nearly as much to them. Getting mildly OT in saying this but Turner's soccer coverage is appallingly bad.

 

[robertmac43]

If anyone wants to watch lower league German football this channel has been playing games for free.

 

[Lambo]

I agree with a lot of this but I don't think Bayern is even run particularly competently. The growing financial gap allows them to get away with incompetence and still win the league title, like the choice to hire Kovac. The club's history, the wealth of the city, and the lack of a regional competitor all made this a layup for them. I don't know if I would even say that their financial management to set this up was brilliant, or if those factors assured their financial superiority. And I agree that barring major financial changes to the league or the whole sport, Bayern are likely to lose the title maybe once every 5-10 years. And the league is still enjoyable despite that inevitability.

FC Bayern has built up an unachievable lead. It is comparable to trying to set up and build a beer brewery in Germany. Who are you competing with? With Krombacher, Warsteiner, Veltins etc. You have no chance. Unless you are a billionaire or you have a multi-million dollar investor behind you who finances everything(Than you ve al little chance). In the Bundesliga there is the 50 + 1 rule. And you don't have a chance vs Bayern. Unless you get rid of 50 + 1. This is not a grant, but the chances then increase that large wealthy cities like Hamburg, Cologne, Frankfurt, and Stuttgart would then have many larger financial resources. I know that many German companies would get into football if they ve the command.

 

[Lambo]

delete