German football 2019/2020

[Bon Esprit]

Werder vs HSV would be a magnificent relegation playoff in normal circumstances...without fans though it will be weird and potentially dangerous as ultras of both teams may try to 'meet' regardless.

TBH I liked the idea at first, but when you think about it, it would be bad. Both fanbases are insane. Remember Adrian Maleika.

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

I can see why people were meme-ing Odriozola. Dude is not very good, Wolfsburg's attackers were exposing him a bit today. I think Flick switched Coman to the right side around the first water break just cos Coman could track back and help out more whereas Gnabry was doing nothing defensively.

I'm not sure that's fair to Odriozola, however. Had he played at all during his time at Bayern prior to yesterday (at least, in anything other than garbage time)? Someone who doesn't play much with other first-choice players isn't likely to have much chemistry with them. Lack chemistry and you can look disjointed and out of it.

Not that it matters at this point to Bayern. Obviously he's not staying there because there's no real need for it. And with Achraf leaving, there is a role for him back at Madrid. Whether he can improve his game to justify a role there is entirely up to him.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Oh boy. HSV. 0-2 after 25 mins.

 

[SSF]

Heidenheim also trails 2-0 at half to Bielefeld.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

HSV need one goal.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Oh the humanity, Sandhausen scores and it looks like it's all over.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Haha HSV

Looking forward to watching Bielefeld next year.

 

[SSF]

Heidenheim and Werder it is.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Heidenheim in the BuLi would be another more low key Hoffenheim. City with less than 50k residents, sponsored by not one but two large (but not well known) companies in the Hartmann group and the Voith group. It's just further proof that at the end of the day, steady management coupled with steady financial investment leads to better outcomes on the field than being a big name club with a lot of fans. It seems like having a famous name as a club and the emotional investment from a large fan base if anything has a negative impact on a team's performance.

 

[Lambo]

HSV Together with Schalke the most confused clubs in german professional Football. Werder with good chances to save the Bundesliga. The danger of underestimating the opponent is big.

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

I will say, and this is with zero judgment or calling anyone hypocrites really for doing so (even if it might be hypocritical behavior), but I do find it funny that Germans, in general, are having a laugh at Hamburg for screwing up time and time again, but if it weren't for the Leipzig's and Hoffenheim's of the world "stealing" Bundesliga spots, Hamburg would probably still be too big to fall out of the top flight.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good laugh at Hamburg as well. They deserve it for that running clock they used to have in their stadium. But if the values we're told about in Germany are to be followed, then Heidenheim having a chance at promotion instead of Hamburg doesn't really jive with them. They would seem to conflict.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Heidenheim and Werder it is.

Werder will tear them apart.

 

[Bon Esprit]

So my masterplan failed. At least Braunschweig might go up.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Heidenheim in the BuLi would be another more low key Hoffenheim. City with less than 50k residents, sponsored by not one but two large (but not well known) companies in the Hartmann group and the Voith group. It's just further proof that at the end of the day, steady management coupled with steady financial investment leads to better outcomes on the field than being a big name club with a lot of fans. It seems like having a famous name as a club and the emotional investment from a large fan base if anything has a negative impact on a team's performance.

Good steady management is key but having a large, passionate fan base is definitely a positive. No guarantee these types of teams stick in the first league. Ingolstadt didn't. I doubt Heidenheim sticks around very long. There's 10x more room for Schalke to mess up (and they have) than for these clubs.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Good steady management is key but having a large, passionate fan base is definitely a positive. No guarantee these types of teams stick in the first league. Ingolstadt didn't. I doubt Heidenheim sticks around very long. There's 10x more room for Schalke to mess up (and they have) than for these clubs.

IMO the big name tends to attract chancers, hucksters, snake oil salesmen. Look at "pillar of the community" Tönnies. These types of people tend to play to the gallery with big promises. And due to the large and passionate fan base everyone in the club feels the pressure of having success in the near term which makes everyone vulnerable to dubious men with big promises.

 

[Bon Esprit]

So your main opponent is losing 3-0 and you have no better things to do than losing 5-1 at home vs Sandhausen in the most important game in the last two years? Time to install a 2. Liga clock in Hamburg already.

 

[robertmac43]

Mario Gomez announced his retirement from professional football today.

 

[Deficient Mode]

IMO the big name tends to attract chancers, hucksters, snake oil salesmen. Look at "pillar of the community" Tönnies. These types of people tend to play to the gallery with big promises. And due to the large and passionate fan base everyone in the club feels the pressure of having success in the near term which makes everyone vulnerable to dubious men with big promises.

What do these rich people who gain influence at HSV, Schalke, etc. really gain from this if the club fails and becomes less valuable? Why intentionally make big promises that you won't keep? Have they bet against their own clubs? They're poorly managed but I don't see what part of that is caused by having a big fan base.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

What do these rich people who gain influence at HSV, Schalke, etc. really gain from this if the club fails and becomes less valuable? Why intentionally make big promises that you won't keep? Have they bet against their own clubs? They're poorly managed but I don't see what part of that is caused by having a big fan base.

For this type of person it's all about ego. You get a lot more media hype and adoration by being the 'big boss' at Schalke or HSV than you would running a meat processing plant or a construction company or whatever else it might be. It's not like they intentionally want to do poorly, it's that they need to be little dictators and don't know much about the football business, so they can't hire professionals to do that 'solid management' we talked about.

A big fan base has a lot of influence at a club, HSV fans and Schalke fans can - together with the local media which can drive fans in certain directions but at the same time is heavily influenced by the mood in town - influence decision-making. Fans know even less about the business side than the impresarios in charge, but are often eager to get a speedy turnaround, to have someone with power and money in charge, and they're quick to find scapegoats. They breathe down the necks of everyone, upping the pressure on management and players.

Teams like Leipzig or Hoffenheim can quietly run the club like you'd run any medium sized business. They don't face burning scarves, rocks thrown at the team bus, pitch invasions, angry fans outside the club offices demanding to speak to someone in charge, or critical, alarmist headlines in the local papers, weekly opinion pieces from former players or coaches, constant speculation about the club's next moves.

One of the favorite words of beleaguered managers, directors and players at such clubs is "Unruhe" (turmoil, unrest, agitation) to describe what they don't want, but suspect third parties are trying to incite at the club. Big fan bases can cause a lot of that.

 

[Albatros]

Heidenheim in the BuLi would be another more low key Hoffenheim. City with less than 50k residents, sponsored by not one but two large (but not well known) companies in the Hartmann group and the Voith group. It's just further proof that at the end of the day, steady management coupled with steady financial investment leads to better outcomes on the field than being a big name club with a lot of fans. It seems like having a famous name as a club and the emotional investment from a large fan base if anything has a negative impact on a team's performance.

Teams funded by investors come and go. If relative temporary success is what you're after then sure, you can buy that. But the clubs that are here also in 20 years are the ones with a large base.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Schalke now has a salary cap.
Schalke 04 plant offenbar als erster Bundesligist eine Gehaltsobergrenze

 

[Bon Esprit]

Schalke now has a salary cap.
Schalke 04 plant offenbar als erster Bundesligist eine Gehaltsobergrenze

And now the taxpayer guarantees.
Schalke 04 soll im Notfall mit Steuergeldern gerettet werden - WELT

 

[Bon Esprit]

Clemens Tönnies steps down at Schalke.
It's the best for all, I think. He will probably face legal issues for his business, then the rassist crap from last year. Next idiotic Schalke supervisory board chief to take over.

 

[Albatros]

Sad that it required a political intervention, hopefully there are also other conditions than the departure of Tönnies and a salary cap.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Two or three things happened in German football.

First things first: Welcome back BTSV. I guess I'm the only H96 supporter who doesn't hate you.
Sadly we lost Jena and Münster and maybe CFC.
Sane will play at Bayern. 50m is insane low by today's standard.
Tonight there will be the Werder-Heidenheim game. I guess Werder will win this easily.