Geoff Molson - When will he understand?

Andy

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Jun 26, 2008
31,801
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Montreal
We are the Burke-era Leafs where playoff misses are swept under the rug because of good trades and the amazing prospect pool.

"But Burke got Kessel, Bozak, Gardiner, Grabovski, Phaneuf, MacArthur, Lupul, JVR for nothing!"

"we have Luke Schenn, Nazem Kadri, Kulemin, Morgan Rielly, Andreas Johnsson, Tyler Biggs, Greg McKegg, Mikhail Stefanovich, Fed Gauthier, Garret Sparks!"
 

BLONG7

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Oct 30, 2002
35,763
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Nova Scotia
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We are the Burke-era Leafs where playoff misses are swept under the rug because of good trades and the amazing prospect pool.

"But Burke got Kessel, Bozak, Gardiner, Grabovski, Phaneuf, MacArthur, Lupul, JVR for nothing!"

"we have Luke Schenn, Nazem Kadri, Kulemin, Morgan Rielly, Andreas Johnsson, Tyler Biggs, Greg McKegg, Mikhail Stefanovich, Fed Gauthier, Garret Sparks!"
We have the french Burkie at da helm for 8 years!! lol So true.
 

Pouchkine

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May 20, 2015
2,731
294
For one of the richest teams in the league with the biggest attendance and richest history it's quite something to have a president who doesn't make winning a priority. As long as the money is coming in he doesn't care. The goal is not longer the Stanley Cup it's now making the playoffs as he said himself over the years now it will become trying to make the playoffs. You would never hear a super rich soccer-baseball or any other big club with a rich history only trying to be average, they all want to win the Cup.

They are lucky they still have a bizarre sports media monopoly, but the youngsters 35 or less! are not buying it at all. I live in Montreal and I've never seen so little Canadiens shirts-caps etc and the outside rinks are mostly empty all the time. If the stupid media would stop talking about the Habs 99% of the time they could actually really help the team.

Since the opening of the Molson Centre there has never been as many empty seats in the reds game after games. Some of them are certainly season tickets but people can't even give the tickets away it seems people just don't want to go anymore. The ratings are actually very bad when you look at it compare to 20-30 years+ ago. Often times the Habs game is not even top 10 on a given night in the province. 500k 600k was decent 30 years ago when there was 1-2 Million less people. Now talk shows and tv series often time have twice the ratings.
 
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Patccmoi

Registered User
Aug 11, 2010
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Exactly, what do people here complaining about Molson want him to do? be more activist on hockey ops, hire some new president who will be? You're basically asking for someone to undercut the GM. That always goes so well, having a vaguely defined decision making hierarchy. You're basically asking for Edmonton Oilers style dysfunction.

The major problems on the team come from the drafting drought of 2009-2015, this is not something Geoff Molson has much say in (nor should he). For whatever reason Timmins was kept on, and so was Bergevin instead of being fired in say 2018. The team is now one of the youngest in the league, a lot of U23 talent, all we can do is hope some of them take big steps (like Suzuki) to becoming impact NHLers over the next 1-2 year and things should improve.

Except Bergevin never showed any vision, or ability to actually build a team. So why should we want HIM leading that? Also blaming poor drafting after 7 years at the helm and having 2 3rd OA picks available during your tenure (and another top 10) can't just fall on the previous guys at some point. Good for Bergevin to have failed hard enough that we now have a young team with some talent in it (considering we are failing miserably at both the NHL and AHL level though, this amount of talent might not be as high as some make it out to be around here either). Now put someone better at the helm so that he can do something with a decent foundation. Or are we only supposed to change the GM when the team is in such a state that nothing he can do with it will matter for the next 3-5 years? Bergevin started with a 3rd OA pick and a roster that had a Vezina winner, a Norris winner and a star winger in it. He was weak at center, but he started with a very decent foundation to work with. He failed. Let the next GM start with something half-decent at least.

Subban: How so, please explain. Seems like a good old reach.

Domi's still much better than Galch at the moment, if we had Galch now we'd be in a worse position.

Paccioretty was criticized a ton, he was pissed and he wanted out. He was alright, but his last season was terrible because he wanted out.

He did bad with losing Radulov as a FA, yes. Otherwise I mean it's still the players decisions, can't force anyone to come if they don't want to.

We have a very weak LD, which got very slightly better this year with Chiarot and which should be better next year or the year after with Romanov.

I'm pissed too about the fact that the team has been middle of the pack for awhile. I think, and basically I'm betting, that we're turning a corner next year or the year afterwards with all our prospects coming in and most of our core still ready to play.

No one that knew a bit about hockey expected us to do anything else than try for a 8th place this year with only the addition of Chiarot and Suzuki. We're exactly where most fans envisioned us at the start of the year. If the team can't compete either next year or the one after than we could say the thing failed.

What you and many talking about his "winning trades" seem to be missing, is that if you're looking at improving the team, nearly none of those trades matter.

Pacioretty for Suzuki + Tatar is an excellent trade. This one I'll 100% give him. Tatar is mostly filling Pacioretty's role AND we added real talent at center. Great trade. He deserves props for it. The other one that I believe he deserves props for is Danault. He went and got real talent (ok, not a #1 center, but certainly a decent piece to have in a contending team, be it as an elite shutdown 3rd line center or serviceable #2 center that you can send vs opposition's top line) for picks.

But Subban vs Weber? Ok, Weber might be better than Subban now. But look at the team before, with Subban as an elite #1 D (he did win Norris and was nominated again, hard to argue with that), to with Weber now, who is a solid #1 D although regularly hurt. Is the team better now than it was before the trade because of it? No.

Galchenyuk vs Domi. If you look at LAST year, ya it would have been an improvement. If you look at this year, well Galchenyuk when he was with us was a 40-50 pts winger-center with flaws. Domi is pretty much that right now. Is our team improved? No.

Sergachev vs Drouin? Personally I think it's just a loss because Drouin doesn't look like someone who will ever be consistent, and winger is the least important position in the team while a strong LD is something we so desperately need. Is the team better now because of the trade? No, our LD is the biggest hole in our entire system and our PP struggles mightily, 2 things Sergachev would have helped with a lot more than Drouin.


Most of the "great trades" are simply "maintenance" trades. He traded a player for another one filling mostly the same role, that might be better one for one now (I'd rather have Domi than Galchenyuk currently, and as much as it pains me to say it, probably Weber more than Subban also although this might change year to year because of the age gap) but they did not make the team better than it was before the trade, it only prevented it from degrading. Comparing only the 2 players involved in a trade and saying "our player X is now better than the other team's player Y that we had before" is all nice and good and you can say we "won" the trade! But the team as a whole doesn't improve unless what you get after the trade makes the team better than what you had BEFORE the trade, not what you would have now if the trade was never done. So those trades might have been good and necessary to prevent the team from degrading, but not for improving it.

So if your trades aren't good enough to improve the team, it will improve through draft or UFA/signings. Bergevin did 1 amazing signing in Radulov. Let him go "not to overpay" because clearly we needed the cap space. Which we never used. It was stupid then, I was seriously annoyed by the non-signing (and I do not care if he signed for the same amount in Dallas, we should've overpaid if necessary to keep him. You don't go cheap with your talent, you go cheap with your filler roles. Letting Radulov go to save 1-2M, replacing him with Drouin and losing all our depth at LD in the process, and then turning around to pay 5M for Alzner is exactly what I call a lack of vision. We have worse D and worse winger for more $ in the end). As for draft, we're hoping that 7 years in we're starting to have decent players coming up. 7 years in is a very long time though. And while there's a lot of hype, player development hasn't exactly been a success for a long time. I'd much rather see someone else try to do something with the upcoming talent and start with some sort of foundation than look at MB squander it again and then leave the next guy with a total mess.
 

Burke the Legend

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Feb 22, 2012
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Except Bergevin never showed any vision, or ability to actually build a team. So why should we want HIM leading that? Also blaming poor drafting after 7 years at the helm and having 2 3rd OA picks available during your tenure (and another top 10) can't just fall on the previous guys at some point. Good for Bergevin to have failed hard enough that we now have a young team with some talent in it (considering we are failing miserably at both the NHL and AHL level though, this amount of talent might not be as high as some make it out to be around here either). Now put someone better at the helm so that he can do something with a decent foundation. Or are we only supposed to change the GM when the team is in such a state that nothing he can do with it will matter for the next 3-5 years? Bergevin started with a 3rd OA pick and a roster that had a Vezina winner, a Norris winner and a star winger in it. He was weak at center, but he started with a very decent foundation to work with. He failed. Let the next GM start with something half-decent at least.

Well I don't know, how much input does the GM really have on the final ranking list? I guess it varies org to org but remember they have a dozen amateur scouts working full time all year on ranking people and the 4-5 AGM/Player personnel types helping to coordinate it. I assume whatever the process was in draft prep that failed them so badly 2009-2015 was overhauled, seemingly with better results since 2015 (As you say, we'll see). For whatever reason it was decided that the 2 top guys in the process (Bergevin and Timmins) would be given the chance to fix it themselves instead of being fired and outsiders brought it, so here we are, waiting to see if it's another failure or not. Reality is ownership approved this and now they will at least have a few more years to see how KK & Poehling turn out (remember they declined to trade Poehling for ROR 2 years ago, a lot of their rep rides on him now, and also the debatable reach of KK over Zadina & Tkachuk).
 

Patccmoi

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Aug 11, 2010
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Well I don't know, how much input does the GM really have on the final ranking list? I guess it varies org to org but remember they have a dozen amateur scouts working full time all year on ranking people and the 4-5 AGM/Player personnel types helping to coordinate it. I assume whatever the process was in draft prep that failed them so badly 2009-2015 was overhauled, seemingly with better results since 2015 (As you say, we'll see). For whatever reason it was decided that the 2 top guys in the process (Bergevin and Timmins) would be given the chance to fix it themselves instead of being fired and outsiders brought it, so here we are, waiting to see if it's another failure or not. Reality is ownership approved this and now they will at least have a few more years to see how KK & Poehling turn out (remember they declined to trade Poehling for ROR 2 years ago, a lot of their rep rides on him now, and also the debatable reach of KK over Zadina & Tkachuk).

Even if they DO pan out though, and Poehling and KK become 2 core parts of the team, what has MB done, at all, that should inspire confidence in his ability to build a winning team around them? The team, under his tenure, both at the NHL and AHL level, has been historically bad. And he started with a core that was arguably stronger (or at least fairly equivalent) than what he will have with KK and Poehling in at their top (hard to believe we have a Norris candidate in the system currently and Price isn't going to be any better in 2-3 years than he was 4-5 years ago).

He hasn't shown any ability whatsoever in building a winning team at any level. But we should trust him for a second wave of it? If he fails, he will have negatively impacted the team for 15+ years from when he got started to the time it will take to come out of this mess if we can't build around this current batch of draftees. This is an absurdely long time in any business.
 
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Burke the Legend

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Even if they DO pan out though, and Poehling and KK become 2 core parts of the team, what has MB done, at all, that should inspire confidence in his ability to build a winning team around them? The team, under his tenure, both at the NHL and AHL level, has been historically bad. And he started with a core that was arguably stronger (or at least fairly equivalent) than what he will have with KK and Poehling in at their top (hard to believe we have a Norris candidate in the system currently and Price isn't going to be any better in 2-3 years than he was 4-5 years ago).

He hasn't shown any ability whatsoever in building a winning team at any level. But we should trust him for a second wave of it? If he fails, he will have negatively impacted the team for 15+ years from when he got started to the time it will take to come out of this mess if we can't build around this current batch of draftees. This is an absurdely long time in any business.

Well I guess you could argue he was too conservative in not willing to spend a lot of futures to acquire a centre 5 years ago but we don't know what the price was. Likely very high.

It doesn't matter if we trust him or not, the plan that's there with the youth movement is pretty clear and ownership seems to approve. It's possible in the short term ownership might've been more inclined to fire him but then perhaps Bergevin even saved his job with the Pacioretty trade especially now that Suzuki is looking so amazing. Going forward I really think a lot comes down to KK & Poehling especially because Bergevin and Timmins staked a lot of reputation on them being core of this 2nd wave so there's probably 2 years to see how their development goes. It will get ugly if they are still struggling to establish themselves as NHL players in 2 years.
 

FlatIron

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Sep 27, 2017
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Only way he will understand when people stop going to the Bell Center + merchandise sales drop + TV ratings drop significantly, i.e when it hits his wallet.

It baffles me how many people are still going to the Bell center to watch this awful team.

I think part of it is, oh so and so gave me a FREE pair of tickets from his season tickets because he really doesn't want to go and no one else who usually takes cares to go. But Timmy doesn't get to go to the Bell Center often so hey, why not.

I typically get good tickets from a couple of our suppliers at work usually once or twice a year (in good times and in bad times). I go because hey, it's a night out and I get to escape the kids for one night. LOL

I don't buy anything when I'm at the game, $12.50 for a beer? Go f**k yourself Molson. $5 for a hot dog, no thank you. Overpriced souvenirs, yah....no.

I think the last time I actually spent money on tickets was 2002-03 season, cheap seats. The tickets from the suppliers are at $230 per seat, that's completely ludicrous for this product.

Anyone know the TV ratings this year? I remember in 2017-18 the low ratings were constantly being reported in the media.

I'm sure there are plenty of situations like Timmy's, just going because hey why not.
 
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FF de Mars

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Mar 2, 2002
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In the room where it happens, in Hamilton: "When you got skin in the game, you stay in the game. But you don't get a win unless you're playing in the game. Oh you get love for it, you get hate for it, you get nothing if you wait for it ". Is Bergevin just like Burr? Maybe he never had a good team to start with, I don't know.
 

Luigi Habs

Captain Saku
Jul 30, 2005
17,469
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Montreal
The problem with hiring a president is always the same to me.

It's not fair to the gm to hire a president to oversee him while he's in his position, as it undermines him and creates some weird, new dynamics. So long as Bergevin is still the gm - you don't hire a president. When you replace Bergevin? Sure - hire a president, + new gm, etc.

This isn't about Bergevin specifically - I know most here want him long gone. It's just a matter of principle though. You don't create a position of president (I know Molson is already that, but he barely counts) while the GM is actively in role - do it at the same time as you replace GM. I expect this happens this off season.



People are always saying that and it makes no sense. Do you know how many people live in Montreal? There are only 20,000 seats at the arena, for millions of fans. Refusing to pay for a ticket "in protest" will never lead to any change whatsoever.

If you enjoy going to the game and are ok with the price, go. If not - don't. But not going in form of protest will accomplish exactly nothing.

Early 2000s there were 14k at Bell center and team lobbying hard for a salary cap because it couldn’t keep up. We know what happened next specially with the hiring of Pierre Boivin. Between 2005 and 2010 was the only period since we won the cup this team had the resemblance of a direction.
 

habergeon

Registered User
Apr 15, 2015
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This is the only thing that will work, he needs to be embarassed. Paper bags, waffles whatever.....

I still wonder if the rest of the Board, could have him removed from his position?

With respect to Waffledave, how has the waffle become such a force of positive change in professional sports? I've never really understood it.
 
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ottawa

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Nov 7, 2012
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Only way he will understand when people stop going to the Bell Center + merchandise sales drop + TV ratings drop significantly, i.e when it hits his wallet.

It baffles me how many people are still going to the Bell center to watch this awful team.

A lot of people actually did stop going to games, almost everyone I know anyways. But the supply of fans is endless.

For every 1 fan that says "I'm done going to games until this team gets it together", there's 2 fans on the sidelines looking for tickets for the next game.
 

FF de Mars

Registered User
Mar 2, 2002
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42 rue Fontaine
A lot of people actually did stop going to games, almost everyone I know anyways. But the supply of fans is endless.

For every 1 fan that says "I'm done going to games until this team gets it together", there's 2 fans on the sidelines looking for tickets for the next game.

They don't even need to win, fans like watching a good show. When I watch the games it gives me closure, I feel part of society. Something like that. I want Molson to sell the team as much as anybody, thought. I know I'm not you're favourite poster and I want a cup too; just saying ticket holders are easily satisfied. Habs are like folklore, there's an added value to watching the games.
 

ottawa

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Nov 7, 2012
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They don't even need to win, fans like watching a good show. When I watch the games it gives me closure, I feel part of society. Something like that. I want Molson to sell the team as much as anybody, thought. I know I'm not you're favourite poster and I want a cup too; just saying ticket holders are easily satisfied. Habs are like folklore, there's an added value to watching the games.

I don't disagree with you and I understand your POV. It's easier for Montreal natives to boycott this team anytime because they know the team will still be there when the boycott is over.

For non-Montreal residents like myself (Ottawa-12 years and Toronto- years), it's not as easy to be begrudging towards the habs when I visit Montreal because I don't visit the city as often as I'd like to. I always end up checking ticket prices when I'm in the area even though they suck because it'd be nice to just experience the Bell Centre and the atmosphere in the off-chance they'd win during this awful season.

Like i said, for every 1 fan that says "I'm done going to games until this team gets it together", there's 2 fans on the sidelines looking for tickets for the next game. You're one of those 2 fans and in the majority...there's nothing wrong with some entertainment. I can see why people would choose to be on either side of this shit show.
 

walsy37

Registered User
Jul 12, 2006
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As I wrote in another thread, he is like Jim Dolan of the Knicks. Only after the fans started en masse chanting "sell the team" did they fire Steve Mills. Go to the BC, embarrass him (kind of like when he was embarrassed with Cunneyworth) then watch him react.
 

Pouchkine

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May 20, 2015
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There are a lot of empty seats at the games at the moment especially in the reds and the ratings are mediocre at best.

Also the team with Julien is a complete bore to watch, lack of quality and lack of intensity and simply no creativity and no excitement. You really have to have nothing else better to do to watch this team constantly.
 
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Roadhouse

Bring me back to 2006...
Dec 12, 2016
5,516
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Prescott & Russell
Leaf fans made the waffles famous!! I would rather see waffles thrown on the ice, than the jerseys...

Nah, make it messy for Geoff. Throw full (open) beers on the ice from the lower bowl. Should get $100,000 worth of cheap-expensive Molson on the ice pretty quick.

...and that's embarrassing. Would look like a local fight at an Irish community hall.
 

vokiel

#MolsonIsntWine
Jan 31, 2007
17,126
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You'll be able to tell when Molson understood when he sells the team with 10% shares holded and a buy back priority once more. They don't give a rats ass about the club being a winner or not, they just care about their sponsored Forbes' inflated evaluation.
 
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badi

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Jan 21, 2008
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He is a genius !
Keeping MB as GM is the best thing for the possible high pick in the Draft
 

Riddick412

Crash da net!
Dec 15, 2011
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No worries guys. It's all on him.

I don't know how that makes it OK to suck at your job, but if you admit it to your bosses you get to keep your job indefinitely. Life lesson here.
 
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