Geoff Molson - When will he understand?

[CHwest]

The team is middle of the pack, alright. But there's teams in much worse shape than us, I feel some of you guys think we are the only team out there. It's not a black and white thing. It's as if there's only two ways to build a team here, either you are all in to compete or you're all in for draft pick. It's not freaking junior hockey...

Bergevin won the Weber trade, he won the Paccioretty trade, he won the Domi trade, he won the Shaw trade, he got us Armia basically for free and he made a bunch of small trades that were alright or at least not devastating. Drouin trade was at a wash, or he did loose that one by a bit, but Sergachev's not Lidstrom. These are all his major trades going back 4 years ago. That's what should be relevant now to this discussion.

You may criticize the drafting, fair enough. You may criticize the direction of the team, fair enough, even though I disagree. You may criticize Bergevin for being arrogant and for looking a bit dumb when he talks, fair enough. You may criticize Julien too, I think he's miles ahead of Therrien, but anyway there's probably a better coach somewhere... But you guys gotta bring some nuance here.

For as awe inspiring as MB has been so far, the results are just not there. He's won every trade, trades are hard, make the playoffs anything can happen, did I miss anything? His record speaks for itself, he is in over his head and needs to be relieved of his duties. Will Molson do it, probably not, he's in over his head as well. We have our own Harold Ballard right here.

 

[Andrei79]

What's the first trade you're talking about? Tatar and Paccio? Tatar's not one dimensional and we got Suzuki who's basically our first center.

The second one you're talking about Subban being a 60pts D. He's hit it once in his career (came close another time). He had 31 last year and 13 now.

But I've got goggles, sure.

I don't care for Tatar, but I love the Suzuki deal.

What you need to understand is what Subban brought to the team was superior to Weber.

What Domi's bringing right now is what was criticized of Galchenyuk.

Pacioretty was a 35-39 goal scorer with 60+ points, who could get his points wherever he played in the lineup.

The reason why despite trying to make the playoffs, his team has only gotten worse is because none of these moves improved the roster, and he compounded them with net losses on the FA market and making the LD one of the weakest in the league.

But go ahead: how do you adopt a nuanced POV about historic lows in multiple aspects of the franchise. I'm all ears.

 

[A55P2]

I don't care for Tatar, but I love the Suzuki deal.

What you need to understand is what Subban brought to the team was superior to Weber.

What Domi's bringing right now is what was criticized of Galchenyuk.

Pacioretty was a 35-39 goal scorer with 60+ points, who could get his points wherever he played in the lineup.

The reason why despite trying to make the playoffs, his team has only gotten worse is because none of these moves improved the roster, and he compounded them with net losses on the FA market and making the LD one of the weakest in the league.

But go ahead: how do you adopt a nuanced POV about historic lows in multiple aspects of the franchise. I'm all ears.

Subban: How so, please explain. Seems like a good old reach.

Domi's still much better than Galch at the moment, if we had Galch now we'd be in a worse position.

Paccioretty was criticized a ton, he was pissed and he wanted out. He was alright, but his last season was terrible because he wanted out.

He did bad with losing Radulov as a FA, yes. Otherwise I mean it's still the players decisions, can't force anyone to come if they don't want to.

We have a very weak LD, which got very slightly better this year with Chiarot and which should be better next year or the year after with Romanov.

I'm pissed too about the fact that the team has been middle of the pack for awhile. I think, and basically I'm betting, that we're turning a corner next year or the year afterwards with all our prospects coming in and most of our core still ready to play.

No one that knew a bit about hockey expected us to do anything else than try for a 8th place this year with only the addition of Chiarot and Suzuki. We're exactly where most fans envisioned us at the start of the year. If the team can't compete either next year or the one after than we could say the thing failed.

 

[Andrei79]

Subban: How so, please explain. Seems like a good old reach.

Domi's still much better than Galch at the moment, if we had Galch now we'd be in a worse position.

Paccioretty was criticized a ton, he was pissed and he wanted out. He was alright, but his last season was terrible because he wanted out.

He did bad with losing Radulov as a FA, yes. Otherwise I mean it's still the players decisions, can't force anyone to come if they don't want to.

We have a very weak LD, which got very slightly better this year with Chiarot and which should be better next year or the year after with Romanov.

I'm pissed too about the fact that the team has been middle of the pack for awhile. I think, and basically I'm betting, that we're turning a corner next year or the year afterwards with all our prospects coming in and most of our core still ready to play.

No one that knew a bit about hockey expected us to do anything else than try for a 8th place this year with only the addition of Chiarot and Suzuki. We're exactly where most fans envisioned us at the start of the year. If the team can't compete either next year or the one after than we could say the thing failed.

No, see. I don't have to explain why a defenseman that won a Norris and placed top 3 through his tenure, while being the key piece of two ECF runs had a stronger impact. You're the one who has to make the opposite argument.

Look, the LD is shit. It's slightly better with a number 4D playing ridiculous minutes and your argument is it might get a boost from an unknown playing 13 minutes in an inferior league.

That were exactly treading water is precisely the problem. I'm not sure why we need to wait another year, maybe you could tell me why 4 playoff misses in 5 years isn't enough.

 

[A55P2]

No, see. I don't have to explain why a defenseman that won a Norris and placed top 3 through his tenure, while being the key piece of two ECF runs had a stronger impact. You're the one who has to make the opposite argument.

Look, the LD is ****. It's slightly better with a number 4D playing ridiculous minutes and your argument is it might get a boost from an unknown playing 13 minutes in an inferior league.

That were exactly treading water is precisely the problem. I'm not sure why we need to wait another year, maybe you could tell me why 4 playoff misses in 5 years isn't enough.

He won the Norris with us, not with Nash. We still won the trade anyway, which was my point. If you want to argue that Subban had a bigger impact, alright fair enough. There's good argument on both sides I'd say, but alright.

Romanov doesn't play much, but nobody that young does in that league. Next year he could be great on our third pair to start the year. Hopefully we can get someone else before the start of next season in trade or FA.

Anyway going to bed, I had a flu this weekend and want to be sharp at work. In before you mention it, not the flu did no affect my judgement, I stand by my claims

 

[hockeyfan2k18]

once you realize that it is not a cherrished hobby but a bad habit, you finally will be liberated.

So true.

 

[hockeyfan2k18]

As long as fans keep going to the games and filling that arena, Geoff will think he's doing a great job and there's nothing wrong.

Business owners like him (if that's what you want to call him) only view success by numbers. If the arena is half empty, you bet your arse he'll do something. I miss Gillette.

 

[Garo]

The many trades he's won argument is funny when they're not helping the team go anywhere.

Heck, even the trades he won together make no sense. Winning the Weber trade and the Suzuki trade is great, but they serve completely different purposes as for what the direction of the team is. If you trade for Weber, you don't trade Pacioretty cause you want to win now. If you get Suzuki, then you look at selling Weber eventually, yet this genius still thinks it's his greatest trade.

Really, the biggest problem with using trades is that it's to defend a guy who doesn't believe in trades to build a team, yet it's the one thing he's good at. So he'll win quite a few individual trades, but they aren't really there to build his team so there's no vision, instead he's trying to build with the tools he completely suck at.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

At this point, one has to be plain stupid to still throw hundreds of dollars away to go watch this **** show live at the Bell Centre. It’s been years of the same pathetic mess and yet some people continue to buy overpriced tickets and memorabilia like everything’s fine, like there’s nothing more to be expected from this once prestigious organization.

I’d rather wipe my ass with my hard earned money and flush it down the drain than give a single penny to Geoff Molson.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Molson would respond to heavy losses at the gate, +/- 80% capacity which isn't going to happen in Montreal

But I think he will also respond to public embarassment and backlash

2012 when the last overhaul happened it wasn't because of the record, it was because of the record with an english speaking coach behind the bench, even though Cunneyworth really had nothing to do with that

Need to find a way to trigger that kind of response again

 

[Omar]

I mean..

I think its pretty much unanimous around here, Geoff is not the right person to be handling the Canadiens President role.

now the question is..

how can we make an impact and make him realise the Canadiens need him to step down as President.

We need someone who knows hockey at all levels to know how our GM is actually running the hockey operations and is doing good job or not.

Methods? please let me know how your are handling this?

I have personally been active on social media by being a Habs detractor of Bergevin and Geoff Molson specificaly, have not been buying Habs merchandise either those are my main ways so far.

I gonna be honest I have that nasty feeling in my gut now, when I think about the Habs.. when they used to be my most cherish hobby for most of my life..

I dont want to eliminate such a glorious entity of my memory.. but they make me consider it so many times lately.. the lack of tranparency and the lack desire this organisation had for the last 5 years or so.. are really too much for me..

The last half of your post is exactly how I feel. I want to build towards a Cup and I don’t get the sense that they do. I’ve been a fan for 30 years+ and I’m exhausted. I don’t have the motivation to care anymore and I have that same feeling in my stomach that you do. I could actually care less after a win because I know that until they do a massive overhaul, nothing is going to happen. I let myself get excited during the conference finals because it was new but that’s it. Depressing life of a Habs fan.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Great title

 

[BLONG7]

Only way he will understand when people stop going to the Bell Center + merchandise sales drop + TV ratings drop significantly, i.e when it hits his wallet.

It baffles me how many people are still going to the Bell center to watch this awful team.

This is the only thing that will work, he needs to be embarassed. Paper bags, waffles whatever.....

I still wonder if the rest of the Board, could have him removed from his position?

 

[HockeyAddict]

I feel like the media plays along (mostly) with the team's management narrative that it's context (injuries, player's not playing to their potential/playing 100%) instead of a management issue. I can understand because as a journalist, you don't want to have them (i.e organisation) 'blacklist' you so its easier to play along (i.e repeat their narrative) and look to put the blame on the players.

The media's tune is starting to change this year but you can tell its not in their DNA to openly criticize upper management.

Molson needs to step down as President, Bergevin and Timmins fired.

 

[badi]

AS many here have stated , they only way is to stop buying anything related to the MTL Canadiens

For me i have stopped watching games 4 years ago and really enjoy watching other teams play and watch other teams for the love of hockey

By the way i was born watching Ti Guy Lafleur and used to bleed and cry over losses ,,,,
Now they have lost me .

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Pretty simple, this team is mediocre because he accepts it to be mediocre.

I can already imagine the post season conference when he's gonna say that the team worked extremely hard, never quits, dealt with injuries and were battling for a playoffs til the end of the season spot despite adversity. That our prospects looks great and the future looks bright. That he trust the management team in place.

 

[tazsub3]

What's the first trade you're talking about? Tatar and Paccio? Tatar's not one dimensional and we got Suzuki who's basically our first center. Or you're talking about Domi-Galchenyuk, which would make no sense too as Galchenyuk isn't worth much anymore.

The second one you're talking about Subban being a 60pts D. He's hit it once in his career (came close another time). He had 31 last year and 13 now.

But I've got goggles, sure.

I actually agree with you that trades are good, which makes you wonder how has done everything else for the club to be failing miserably and consistently all through the franchise.
But hey they speak french.

 

[Lshap]

Gotta remember one thing: Successful sports teams don't sell winners, they sell the hope of winning. Up until now, the Habs were able to sell the hope of winning so there was no reason for Molson to make changes. I think there's a whiff of hopelessness in the market, which is awful news for the state of the team and the mood of the fan base, but good news for those of us waiting for change. It's coming.

 

[bobholly39]

The problem with hiring a president is always the same to me.

It's not fair to the gm to hire a president to oversee him while he's in his position, as it undermines him and creates some weird, new dynamics. So long as Bergevin is still the gm - you don't hire a president. When you replace Bergevin? Sure - hire a president, + new gm, etc.

This isn't about Bergevin specifically - I know most here want him long gone. It's just a matter of principle though. You don't create a position of president (I know Molson is already that, but he barely counts) while the GM is actively in role - do it at the same time as you replace GM. I expect this happens this off season.

Only way he will understand when people stop going to the Bell Center + merchandise sales drop + TV ratings drop significantly, i.e when it hits his wallet.

It baffles me how many people are still going to the Bell center to watch this awful team.

People are always saying that and it makes no sense. Do you know how many people live in Montreal? There are only 20,000 seats at the arena, for millions of fans. Refusing to pay for a ticket "in protest" will never lead to any change whatsoever.

If you enjoy going to the game and are ok with the price, go. If not - don't. But not going in form of protest will accomplish exactly nothing.

 

[durojean]

The team is middle of the pack, alright. But there's teams in much worse shape than us, I feel some of you guys think we are the only team out there. It's not a black and white thing. It's as if there's only two ways to build a team here, either you are all in to compete or you're all in for draft pick. It's not freaking junior hockey...

Bergevin won the Weber trade, he won the Paccioretty trade, he won the Domi trade, he won the Shaw trade, he got us Armia basically for free and he made a bunch of small trades that were alright or at least not devastating. Drouin trade was at a wash, or he did loose that one by a bit, but Sergachev's not Lidstrom. These are all his major trades going back 4 years ago. That's what should be relevant now to this discussion.

You may criticize the drafting, fair enough. You may criticize the direction of the team, fair enough, even though I disagree. You may criticize Bergevin for being arrogant and for looking a bit dumb when he talks, fair enough. You may criticize Julien too, I think he's miles ahead of Therrien, but anyway there's probably a better coach somewhere... But you guys gotta bring some nuance here.

Sorry but Bergevin is not doing a good job.
He's got no plan can't project anything. Can't find the problems in his organisation so can't find ways to solve them and he's not seing them or too patient to correct the wrong courses.

To win in a business with 31 team you need an exceptional head and while he's doing what he can it's clearly not enough.

Plus, he's got.no ambition which makes most of his players be content with only trying to make the playoffs.

We have one of the most poorly assembled line up in the NHL and the results are showing that. There should and would of been consequences in any successful companies in the world.

Soon there will be a time when Habs won't be profitable anymore, a time when they hit the wall and Molson's name will be attached to the fall of the Montreal Canadiens and that will be on him and no one else.

It already started and it's going to get way worse

 

[Tabarouette]

he's saving 8M a year on a team that pretty much sells out every game, it's arguably safer than spending those 8M with no guarantee of making the playoffs to recuperate them

the Canadiens are not your friend. They're a private business and they make a lot of money. Just move and watch something else instead of giving them any press

 

[Zam Boni]

The many trades he's won argument is funny when they're not helping the team go anywhere.

Heck, even the trades he won together make no sense. Winning the Weber trade and the Suzuki trade is great, but they serve completely different purposes as for what the direction of the team is. If you trade for Weber, you don't trade Pacioretty cause you want to win now. If you get Suzuki, then you look at selling Weber eventually, yet this genius still thinks it's his greatest trade.

Really, the biggest problem with using trades is that it's to defend a guy who doesn't believe in trades to build a team, yet it's the one thing he's good at. So he'll win quite a few individual trades, but they aren't really there to build his team so there's no vision, instead he's trying to build with the tools he completely suck at.

Excellent summary.
He'd make a great AGM, responsible of trades and pro player scouting.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Only way he will understand when people stop going to the Bell Center + merchandise sales drop + TV ratings drop significantly, i.e when it hits his wallet.

It baffles me how many people are still going to the Bell center to watch this awful team.

People will always go because I really do believe 75% of them do not pay for their tickets.
the ones that do probably look at the schedule at the begining of the season, pick their games and go. Once you paid you`re going to go.
Personal season tickets holders will drop IMO like it did 3-4 years ago, that`s where it might hurt him the most.
But the guy is also into real estate and hockey is not his #1 priority. I totally agree that before anything is done, step 1 would be for him to step down and hire a real President that is capable of running the hockey operations.

 

[Techcoockie]

Gotta remember one thing: Successful sports teams don't sell winners, they sell the hope of winning.

 

[Burke the Legend]

The problem with hiring a president is always the same to me.

It's not fair to the gm to hire a president to oversee him while he's in his position, as it undermines him and creates some weird, new dynamics. So long as Bergevin is still the gm - you don't hire a president. When you replace Bergevin? Sure - hire a president, + new gm, etc.

This isn't about Bergevin specifically - I know most here want him long gone. It's just a matter of principle though. You don't create a position of president (I know Molson is already that, but he barely counts) while the GM is actively in role - do it at the same time as you replace GM. I expect this happens this off season.

Exactly, what do people here complaining about Molson want him to do? be more activist on hockey ops, hire some new president who will be? You're basically asking for someone to undercut the GM. That always goes so well, having a vaguely defined decision making hierarchy. You're basically asking for Edmonton Oilers style dysfunction.

The major problems on the team come from the drafting drought of 2009-2015, this is not something Geoff Molson has much say in (nor should he). For whatever reason Timmins was kept on, and so was Bergevin instead of being fired in say 2018. The team is now one of the youngest in the league, a lot of U23 talent, all we can do is hope some of them take big steps (like Suzuki) to becoming impact NHLers over the next 1-2 year and things should improve.