TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part XII -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

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Beau Knows

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If the lord of light himself suddenly showed up with no warning and melted the NK, THAT would have been a Deus Ex Machina.

Also they established Arya can be so quiet that the only sound that could be heard was the dripping of her blood.

True, if there's any issue with Arya killing the Night King it's only that it could have been executed better.

Maybe they could have shown it by cutting back and forth from her racing/sneaking there to the Night King making his way to Bran. Sure there'd be no surprise over who was going to take him down, but it would feel less like it came out of nowhere and would still be suspensful.

I also liked Arya getting hurt and losing it for a while. She's still just a kid so it makes sense for her to become so frightened, and it makes her feel less like a robot-assasin.
 

WTG

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Again just so this conversation doesn't got any further than it needs to:

Is it not a Deus ex Machina because it's established she is sneaky? So this means she can sneak past an entire pack of tightly packed wights and a group of White Walkers. To leap through the air for like 20 meters to get to the Night King.

But in the library she needs to be directly out of line of sight. But the Night King was in the open....


There is a thousand ways they could of handled this differently if they wanted to really avoid confusion. Either way, it's lazy writing.
 
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Blender

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Is it not a Deus ex Machina because it's established she is sneaky? So this means she can sneak past an entire pack of tightly packed wights and a group of White Walkers. To leap through the air for like 20 meters to get to the Night King.

But in the library she needs to be directly out of line of sight. But the Night King was in the open....
What...Did you even read my post? Arya killing the Night King doesn't meet any of the 4 criteria required for a Deus Ex Machina, and all 4 are required for it to be one.
 
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The Gongshow

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That was the most tense/nervous episode for me. It was amazing. I have my issues with it but I really enjoyed it for what it was. Sad to see the NK/White Walker story come to an end but Cersi is the final boss.

Plus... #CleganeBowl2019 hype back on the menu's boys!!!
 

Osprey

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Arya snuck up on Jon in the same spot in episode 1. He even questioned how she snuck up on him.

It's not hard to sneak up on people, at least if you don't weigh much and are wearing quiet shoes or no shoes at all. I often startle people, myself, without meaning to. I think that it's something different, though, to walk past dozens of people seemingly unseen, transition into a run and then leap into the air without making any noise. Those are things that I don't think that we've seen Arya do before. If the NK and Bran had been alone and she had actually slowly walked up to them undetected, that would've been more believable because the scene with Jon in that spot established it, as you pointed out.
 

Beau Knows

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What...Did you even read my post? Arya killing the Night King doesn't meet any of the 4 criteria required for a Deus Ex Machina, and all 4 are required for it to be one.

People are confusing Deus Ex Machina with issues that they might have with the writting or editing. Arya killing the NK makes perfect sense, but I can see how people can feel like it came out of nowhere due to the way it was presented.
 
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Emperoreddy

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True, if there's any issue with Arya killing the Night King it's only that it could have been executed better.

Maybe they could have shown it by cutting back and forth from her racing/sneaking there to the Night King making his way to Bran. Sure there'd be no surprise over who was going to take him down, but it would feel less like it came out of nowhere and would still be suspensful.

I also liked Arya getting hurt and losing it for a while. She's still just a kid so it makes sense for her to become so frightened, and it makes her feel less like a robot-assasin.

If you show Arya again before she jumps st the NK it gives the entire game away. The audience knows she is going to make that kill and the suspense is gone.

It was already kind of obvious the moment Mel gave her the pep talk. They needed all the tension of Jon being so far away to put doubt back into the viewer.
 

The Macho King

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True, if there's any issue with Arya killing the Night King it's only that it could have been executed better.

Maybe they could have shown it by cutting back and forth from her racing/sneaking there to the Night King making his way to Bran. Sure there'd be no surprise over who was going to take him down, but it would feel less like it came out of nowhere and would still be suspensful.

I also liked Arya getting hurt and losing it for a while. She's still just a kid so it makes sense for her to become so frightened, and it makes her feel less like a robot-assasin.
I mean - this seems like a somewhat direct misdirection by the director. It's not an omniscient view, which probably would have made more sense with the way the book handles PoV.

I have no issues with how it was handled. Maybe she put on a wights face. Maybe she was just really sneaky. Don't care. Plot-wise it was established she had the skills necessary to pull it off, as well as the tools. Moreover - she's actually an interesting character, unlike Jon. She deserves the win. Jon (and to a lesser extent Dany) are just so dull.
 
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Emperoreddy

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It's not hard to sneak up on people, at least if you don't weigh much and are wearing quiet shoes or no shoes at all. I often startle people, myself, without meaning to. I think that it's something different, though, to walk past dozens of people seemingly unseen, transition into a run and then leap into the air without making any noise. Those are things that I don't think that we've seen established as possible for Arya. If the NK and Bran had been alone and she had actually slowly walked up to them undetected, that would've been more believable because the scene with Jon in that spot established it, as you pointed out.

We saw her in the library able to sneak around a lot of them without making a sound. It established wights need to see or hear to detect.

They were all looking at Bran, and they didn’t hear her because she is able to be unheard. One of the other walkers does notice her but it’s too late.

Plus the NK also noticed her considering he legit caught her.
 
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Blender

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McDNicks17

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@McDNicks17

I get that, but I just felt like they first introduced him as an intelligent, basically all-knowing, magical, sentient being and then later on they essentially scrapped all that and just framed him as an elemental force with only his programmed objective in mind.

"Because he was introduced as such a powerful and magical being, I think people(or at least I did) expected something powerful and magical would be needed to beat him. If he was introduced as a Terminator-esque harbinger of death without all that, I think his death would have made more sense. The simplicity of dying the same way he was created would have been a good fit."

But that's more or less what happened. He was created with dragonglass shoved through his heart. I don't think that alone turns a human from a person to a white walker, but he took a stab from Valyrian steel...the effective equivalent of dragonglass to the heart

I know. I'm saying I think the ending we got would have been a better fit if they developed the NK differently.

I liked the ending, but the main complaint you hear is "That's it? Arya pokes the NK with a knife and he dies?". I'm just saying that I think people likely thought the NK was more powerful/magical because of how he was portrayed earlier in the show, so they thought that something more powerful/magical would be required to kill him. I don't think there would be nearly as many complaints if the NK didn't have the sight/didn't mark Bran and they advanced the plot in some other way.
 
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Beau Knows

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If you show Arya again before she jumps st the NK it gives the entire game away. The audience knows she is going to make that kill and the suspense is gone.

It was already kind of obvious the moment Mel gave her the pep talk. They needed all the tension of Jon being so far away to put doubt back into the viewer.

Maybe you're right.

But I do think that they way it happened kinda leaves a bit too much to the imagination in terms of how she pulled it off, I could have used a little bit more of a setup for that. But it's a pretty minor quibble for me given how much I enjoyed the episode, and I did love that scene with Melisandre.
 

The Gongshow

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Kinda sad we didn't get Jon 1v1 versus the Night King, but he was strategic and smart af, so I get him not having any battles or fighting. He was so focused on his one and only goal that he became blinded by it
 

Lshap

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Just watched the episode.

- The battle episodes, in general, aren't my favourites. I prefer character-based stories with dialogue, confrontation, suspense, plotting, etc. This one was 80 minutes of quick cuts and blurry motion, punctuated by a pause where everyone gasps for breath, then starts fighting again. It was like watching the Super Bowl from the point of view of the ball -- sounds cool, but is impossible to follow. The whole thing was a buildup to an endless, swelling sense of hopelessness. Which was the point, I know. But for all the effort towards making survival look hopeless, I found the pace too fast and impersonal.

- The NK's big finale was surprisingly one-dimensional. Like so many, I was expecting a big reveal. But y'know, I think it's better to get him and the wights out of the way now, so they could concentrate on the real characters and get back to the actual game-of-thrones. As I said, the show is at its best when it focuses on people and human motives. To be honest, I'm much happier knowing I won't have to see any more dumb zombies interrupting an otherwise brilliant drama.

- Tyrion & Sansa's scene was sweet. Arya's climactic moment was cool. Daenerys and Jorah's final scene was very nice. Otherwise, the main characters lurched forward as mindlessly as the zombies. This might have been Jon's most boring and useless performance of the series. You did nothing, Jon Snow.
 

Beau Knows

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I know. I'm saying I think the ending we got would have been a better fit if they developed the NK differently.

I liked the ending, but the main complaint you hear is "That's it? Arya pokes the NK with a knife and he dies?". I'm just saying that I think people likely thought the NK was more powerful/magical because of how he was portrayed earlier in the show, so they thought that something more powerful/magical would be required to kill him. I don't think there would nearly as many complaints if the NK didn't have the sight/didn't mark Bran and they advanced the plot in some other way.

Yeah that or a more clever plan to take down the Night King would have sat a bit better with me as well. The group did have Tyrion and Varys at their disposal, you'd think those two would have something up their sleeves.
 

Kevin27NYI

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That was the most tense/nervous episode for me. It was amazing. I have my issues with it but I really enjoyed it for what it was. Sad to see the NK/White Walker story come to an end but Cersi is the final boss.

Plus... #CleganeBowl2019 hype back on the menu's boys!!!
I hope Tormund kills the mountain because who cares about building a story with a proper ending anymore
 

Emperoreddy

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Honestly have Arya’s Braavos stuff actually pay off and have a bit greatly enhances those past seasons.

It doesn’t totally fix it because the invidual beats were still so messy, but it really needed a point and a payoff that was totally lacking until last night.
 

Blender

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Honestly have Arya’s Braavos stuff actually pay off and have a bit greatly enhances those past seasons.

It doesn’t totally fix it because the invidual beats were still so messy, but it really needed a point and a payoff that was totally lacking until last night.
Arya's arc from season 1 to 4 was my favorite. I thought it really lost its way in parts of season 5 and 6, so for those weaker parts to at least pay off like this is rewarding to her overall story.
 

Neutrinos

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Arya's yell as she was flying through the air was pretty dumb. Why do characters always do that? Sam did the same thing when he killed the White Walker
 
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The Macho King

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Honestly have Arya’s Braavos stuff actually pay off and have a bit greatly enhances those past seasons.

It doesn’t totally fix it because the invidual beats were still so messy, but it really needed a point and a payoff that was totally lacking until last night.
The library scene was the best in the whole show.

Come at me.
 

The Macho King

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Arya's yell as she was flying through the air was pretty dumb. Why do characters always do that? Sam did the same thing when he killed the White Walker

Also, the Night King caught Arya by the neck, so there was really no reason she couldn't have followed through and stabbed him with the dagger already in her left hand

If they wanted to do that sequence correctly, they should've had the Night King catch her by her left wrist, and then have her drop the blade down to her right hand
He caught her by the neck and wrist (with different hands). Which is why her right hand was free.
 
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