TV: Game of Thrones | Season 7 | Part VII -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

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Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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More bad writing: all that trite dialogue at the start as they are endlessly trudging through the snow. Terrible writing that induces yawns, not anything else.

Based on the threads since the episode aired, I'm thinking you're in a small minority on this one. The writers can't win though, people have been begging for discussions like that this season with all these characters meeting, and now that we get them it is 'terrible writing' and 'induces yawns'. The history of these characters and how past events have impacted them is important to who they are. Many of these people are together for the first time in the show and they are discussing past events that have impacted both of them in different ways.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
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The sparring between the Hound and Tormond in regards to Brienne was a hilariously dialogue. If you have a sense of humor that is....... :naughty:

Yeah I had no problem with their dialog there.

I mostly had a problem with the whimsical "Hey lets go capture a WW and Cerci would have to believe us then! Okay! Lets take our best men and risk their lives!" Just too spur of the moment for everyone to join in so quickly and agree.

Anyways, just enjoying the ride, it had to happen for the WW to get a Dragon.

Dany really has lost A LOT this season.
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
4,628
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Based on the threads since the episode aired, I'm thinking you're in a small minority on this one. The writers can't win though, people have been begging for discussions like that this season with all these characters meeting, and now that we get them it is 'terrible writing' and 'induces yawns'. The history of these characters and how past events have impacted them is important to who they are. Many of these people are together for the first time in the show and they are discussing past events that have impacted both of them in different ways.

I get how they "can never win" with everyone having different opinions.

For me, I'd prefer more well thought out dialogue creating tension and leading to a climax, and less "ZOMG!!! LOOK AT ALL THE ZOMBIESS! SWEET FIRE SWORD! HOW LONG CAN THEY FIGHT THEM OFF?? WOOO A DRAGON!!! FIREEEE!!!"

The lead up to the battle, creating tension, telling us that they are out there freezing...running out of time...detailing that the dragons are coming is WAY more important than a sweet fight scene with explosions.

Sadly, all of my close friends have been clamoring for nothing but sweet battles with zombies and dragons since s01e01, so they were thrilled.
 

Make

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Apr 15, 2004
1,616
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Finland
Finally saw the episode last night and read through the threads.

It seems this episode got some bad reviews on some message boards I follow. It was indeed a bit sloppy, but I enjoyed it ok enough nevertheless. Biggest issue for me were the weak cliffhangers and overall the setting of the final battle (the lake, the ice, the island etc.), which felt very purpose built to suit a standoff situation. It was just a very standard and clicheish battle scene and clearly a step below the other big battles in GoT. A bit of a letdown tbh, considering this was the episode-before-last big event.

The trek beyond the wall was a bit confusing, because I thought they would be hiking for days out there, but apparently they were just hours from the Wall. Still, the "run for the Wall, Gendry!"-bit felt really wrong and kind of forced. It's a hell of a lot of running in winter clothing in pretty bad conditions. I had more gripes about that than the ravens flying so fast.

Agree with the idea that Rhaegal should have been the one to save Jon, to build up some of that Targaryen heritage (plus Rhaegar-Rhaegal connection). I was actually fully expecting that, so Benjen's arrival was a surprise, but an unwelcome one in its convenience. I guess they wanted to tie that end, but I would have been ok with Benjen just staying out of this. Rhaegal would have felt more natural.

The chain-thing didn't really strike me as a big plot hole, but personally I would have liked a different kind of resurrection, one with Viserion rising as the undead from the water. But someone pointed out that maybe NK wanted to touch Viserion so that he can turn it into a White Walker Dragon instead of a wight dragon? Though IIRC there was something about the place that the Walkers used to transform Craster's boys that might have the needed magic to create White Walkers.

The dialogue heavy part beyond the wall was ok, if not quite as striking as I would have hoped. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the **** & *****-type banter they use quite a lot nowadays. I just think there's potential for more. Admittedly, I value every "slow" scene they can give us at this point so I have a list of things in my head I want discussed, so some of the banter feels wasted. :laugh:

Winterfell is a bit of a mess right now. Got to agree with the sentiment that the Starks should just for once sit down and talk instead of hiding things from each other and being paranoid about everything. It's incredibly annoying, because it makes them look unbearably stupid. Also, Arya just sucks the life out of every scene she is right now. Hate this Robo-Arya and frankly wouldn't care much if she's killed before the end. Let's hope this thing between Arya & Sansa is just faking by Arya's part (still stupid in many ways), and some kind of plot to deal with LF.

One last thing: Anyone else find it somewhat awkward that Dany & co. are sailing south again when the Walkers are just a days walk from the wall? I mean, isn't the threat from beyond the Wall kind of immiment right now? Are they just leaving the Wall to fend for themselves for now, for possibly weeks with the negotiations in the south? Well, tbf, there's not much they can do with the armies stuck in the south, but isn't this exactly the kind of situation where a leader like Jon says screw it, I'm staying on the Wall. Dany's dragons should stay too. :dunno:
 

x Tame Impala

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Aug 24, 2011
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There should be a separate thread for you petty nerds to cry about raven speeds and origins of chains so you stop ruining this one.

I hope that article from the director boiled all of your blood a little bit too. You guys are ridiculous
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
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This quote just oozes arrogance. Confirmation they just don't care anymore, as long as the Burlington Bar whoopers continue to lap it all up.

Victims of their own success.

This isn't arrogance. This is a writer that admits what every writer in existence, especially TV writers, do. They stretch plausibility so they can deliver a more entertaining product on the screen.

Shows have limited amounts of time, money, and resources. Even on a show this big, none of that is unlimited.

You still have to make hard choices so you can deliver an entertaining product to the viewer, and sometimes that means plot holes and inconsistencies happen.

This isn't a book
 

Seb

All we are is Dustin Byfuglien
Jul 15, 2006
17,416
12,722
This isn't arrogance. This is a writer that admits what every writer in existence, especially TV writers, do. They stretch plausibility so they can deliver a more entertaining product on the screen.

Shows have limited amounts of time, money, and resources. Even on a show this big, none of that is unlimited.

You still have to make hard choices so you can deliver an entertaining product to the viewer, and sometimes that means plot holes and inconsistencies happen.

This isn't a book

And fans are telling them to stop doing that.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,217
9,210
the thing is - the show has moved away from all the intrigue - to action/adventure. THIS is the lead up. you're not going to have a lot of poignant conversation when as Jon says - there's an flipping army of dead people at your door.

i don't know. I do think there is a balance between the exposition/dialogue and the action. I don't see the point of quibbling about the red-shirts, because we'd actually like to have that actual tension of "ARE THEY GONNA DIE." in season eight as well. There has ALWAYS been redshirts.

i know it's each their own but i just find - that a lot of people are finding stuff to be miserable about, instead of enjoying truly what is a very good-season.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
44,037
11,732
This isn't arrogance. This is a writer that admits what every writer in existence, especially TV writers, do. They stretch plausibility so they can deliver a more entertaining product on the screen.

Shows have limited amounts of time, money, and resources. Even on a show this big, none of that is unlimited.

You still have to make hard choices so you can deliver an entertaining product to the viewer, and sometimes that means plot holes and inconsistencies happen.

This isn't a book

To be clear, the writer discussed stretching plausibility in this season specifically. Not over the course of the entire show.
 

KingBran

Three Eyed Raven
Apr 24, 2014
6,436
2,284
There should be a separate thread for you petty nerds to cry about raven speeds and origins of chains so you stop ruining this one.

I hope that article from the director boiled all of your blood a little bit too. You guys are ridiculous

I don't think anyone is actually seriously angry about it like you think they are or as seriously angry as you are about people who bring up these plot-holes. It's a TV show. Calm down.

But seriously, where did they get those chains!?
 

ThePhoenixx

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
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I think they're just at different stages of decay, don't think it has anything to do with skill or different types.

I'm just saying they emphasize how they need fire to kill them, and it didn't really seem like they did. They went through them pretty good and they didn't seem to keep going after they were sliced.

They were using dragon glass daggers.
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
4,628
3,517
There should be a separate thread for you petty nerds to cry about raven speeds and origins of chains so you stop ruining this one.

I hope that article from the director boiled all of your blood a little bit too. You guys are ridiculous

Right. Why does story matter?

Why not just drop robocop and jesus with lazer eyes in there to defeat the White Walkers? It's entertaining! Where's your suspension of disbelief?
 

ThePhoenixx

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
9,306
5,797
The sparring between the Hound and Tormond in regards to Brienne was a hilariously dialogue. If you have a sense of humor that is....... :naughty:

I thought it was great dialogue.

To each their own I guess. It does make me wonder why some people watch the show. Doesn't sound like it is very fun for them.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,428
45,314
Right. Why does story matter?

Why not just drop robocop and jesus with lazer eyes in there to defeat the White Walkers? It's entertaining! Where's your suspension of disbelief?

Suspension of disbelief refers to things being plausible within the world that has been built. As long as what they are doing follows the rules of the world, it works.

A classic example of it failing is that it's easy to accept that Superman can fly and has super strength, but why can no one recognize him with glasses on?
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
130,476
76,037
New Jersey, Exit 16E
the thing is - the show has moved away from all the intrigue - to action/adventure. THIS is the lead up. you're not going to have a lot of poignant conversation when as Jon says - there's an flipping army of dead people at your door.

i don't know. I do think there is a balance between the exposition/dialogue and the action. I don't see the point of quibbling about the red-shirts, because we'd actually like to have that actual tension of "ARE THEY GONNA DIE." in season eight as well. There has ALWAYS been redshirts.

i know it's each their own but i just find - that a lot of people are finding stuff to be miserable about, instead of enjoying truly what is a very good-season.

The excellent exchange between Jon and Berric seems to have gotten lost on the shuffle.

It was an excellent piece of dialogue between these two characters in a slow moment of the episode.
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
130,476
76,037
New Jersey, Exit 16E
Suspension of disbelief refers to things being plausible within the world that has been built. As long as what they are doing follows the rules of the world, it works.

A classic example of it failing is that it's easy to accept that Superman can fly and has super strength, but why can no one recognize him with glasses on?

Willing suspension of belief is a better term for TV. Viewers are more willing to suspend their beliefs if the payoff is worth it.
 

chokei

#59
Dec 31, 2011
691
101
Zürich
People keep saying that they decided to go for only 13 episodes because they didn't have more material left. Is there a quote to confirm this?

I have no quote for my claim but what I got from various threads here was that it was not only the material but also the time to shoot the show. The last two seasons were supposed to be very battle heavy and because battles take a lot of time to film (just watch the behind the scenes on the GoT youtoube channel for all those big battles), they decided to cut the amount of episodes so they could still bring out one season per year. An option would have been to wait two years to finish the show but they didn't want that apparently.
 

Duke33

Registered User
Oct 9, 2009
3,584
500
Houston, TX
Right. Why does story matter?

Why not just drop robocop and jesus with lazer eyes in there to defeat the White Walkers? It's entertaining! Where's your suspension of disbelief?

At this point it wouldn't shock me if Baby Sam turns out to be Stannis reborn. Or Cersei rolls out some Sherman tanks next week to roll over the Dothraki. It's sad but hey, there's some cool looking dragons so why complain...ugh.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
44,037
11,732
This doesn't really affect my point though.

Your point was about how writers have to suspend disbelief when writing fiction like that, but even with that in mind they acknowledge they have had to fudge these things even further.

If it was the same as previous seasons they wouldn't make the distinction.

Also I'm not sure I am seeing what was so great about the scene between Jon and Beric.
 

ThePhoenixx

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
9,306
5,797
Right. Why does story matter?

Why not just drop robocop and jesus with lazer eyes in there to defeat the White Walkers? It's entertaining! Where's your suspension of disbelief?

At this point it wouldn't shock me if Baby Sam turns out to be Stannis reborn. Or Cersei rolls out some Sherman tanks next week to roll over the Dothraki. It's sad but hey, there's some cool looking dragons so why complain...ugh.

And here come the strawmans.....
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
130,476
76,037
New Jersey, Exit 16E
People keep saying that they decided to go for only 13 episodes because they didn't have more material left. Is there a quote to confirm this?

I have no quote for my claim but what I got from various threads here was that it was not only the material but also the time to shoot the show. The last two seasons were supposed to be very battle heavy and because battles take a lot of time to film (just watch the behind the scenes on the GoT youtoube channel for all those big battles), they decided to cut the amount of episodes so they could still bring out one season per year. An option would have been to wait two years to finish the show but they didn't want that apparently.

It does exist, I just can't google it right now to show you.

You are right as well though. There wasn't enough time to film all the battles along with all the other scenes in a single year so it was this or wait two years between seasons.

Why the two sieges happened so quickly.
 
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